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Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible?



Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #151

Problem is the population got thouroughly cleansed out and exchanged with mostly eastern Poles from what is now Ukraine. The precious mix of Germans, Poles and Bohemians is no more.

The Silesia of old isn't coming back no matter what artificial acts we try to pull off...


guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #152

The Silesia of old isn't coming back no matter what artificial acts we try to pull off...

You're probably right about that but then again, no one has really expected the reunification of Germany too. Things happen in life, you never know.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #153

The population in Eastern Germany was quite the same now as back before 1945 (+ some millions of refugees).

The population of Silesia is not originally silesian anymore but eastern polish now.
guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #154

The population of Silesia is not originally silesian anymore but eastern polish now

Agree but "things can happen", you never know :-) You'll be very surprised but when I was in Danzig, some young Poles living there, expressed that they would prefer to live in a free city. They said, they don't want it to be German but they want it to be free of any influence. When I asked why, the expectation of a much better live standard was the most common answer.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #155

Agree but "things can happen", you never know :-)

I think I know still ;)
Besides a forcefully ethnic cleansing there won't anything happen and THIS won't happen for sure!

Being a "free city" = higher living standard is just crap, sorry! Danzig alone on itself would not be able to survive and soon people would flee to better shores and the town would sink to third world standards within a generation.

As you said those you speak with identify as Poles, so on what base they would be able to found a free city?

I don't know what happens in some peoples brains and if there are any brain cells left!
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #156

don't know what happens in some peoples brains and if there are any brain cells left!

Please do not insult Wendy !
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #157

That was meant for people who harbor "regaining territories now with a foreign population" thoughts and likewise "a free city sounds nice"-people...!

;)
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #158

"regaining territories now with a foreign population"

Well, I think that regaining territories in due time and then having a working solution ready, as well as a way of dealing with foreign population.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #159

as well as a way of dealing with foreign population.

How???
Torq 25 | 2,262    
4 Oct 2010  #161

as well as a way of dealing with foreign population

I have a better idea. We can think of a way of dealing with people who want
to stir sh*it and change borders in our region of Europe. There is certainly fewer
of them than people of any "foreign population" that you talk about, so it will
be much easier to do. Deal with the sickf*ucks who think about changing borders
and then the overwhelming majority of population can live peacefully.

*so simple, yet brilliant :)*
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #162

*so simple, yet brilliant :)*

The wise Torq hath spoken!

:)
convex 20 | 3,987    
4 Oct 2010  #163

I have a better idea. We can think of a way of dealing with people who want
to stir sh*it and change borders in our region of Europe.

Just ostracize people that decide to violate the rights others.
Torq 25 | 2,262    
4 Oct 2010  #164

As well as those who advocate violence as a way of solving problems on international level
and, indirectly, suggest things like ethnic cleansing and "regaining territories".
guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #165

Danzig alone on itself would not be able to survive and soon people would flee to better shores and the town would sink to third world standards within a generation

Actually, Danzig was doing pretty good anytime it was a free city. Of course it did OK too when it was German :-)

As you said those you speak with identify as Poles, so on what base they would be able to found a free city?

What base? Actually, the answer is very simple, according to the international law, Danzig is still a free city.

danzigfreestate.org/freedanzig.html

even Poles confirm it

pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wolne_Miasto_Gda%C5%84sk&action=edit&section=9
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #166

Actually, Danzig was doing pretty good anytime it was a free city. Of course it did OK too when it was German :-)

It was never independent...it was an solely political artificial construct by the then League of Nations. It was still fully german and fully dependent on Germany.

What base? Actually, the answer is very simple, according to the international law, Danzig is still a free city.

Nah...it was made so as it was a fully german enclave in the newly founded polish republic with a german population of about 98 percent.

This town is now fully polish in Poland...there is no legal base for a free city anymore.

Officially since there hadn't been any peace treaty with Germany I still could demand the ID of the german Reich... ;)

PS: Your link is an interesting read, but they totally omit the fact that the people of Danzig now aren't the same as till '45. But that changes everything!
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #167

the sickf*ucks

eh?
WTF is going on here ? Why does PF allow such flith on their forum? Is this kind of childish insults considered 'free speech' or something ?

PF needs to do something about these morons. I've reported their abouse a few times but the offending posts and posters are still there.I just can't belive that PF would allow this to continue. When will they put an end to the hatred and ignorance?

Majority my ass, majority of any population do as they are told.What I must o deal with is a rival minority which claim that they speak for the nation.

@Hello Wendy!:)@
convex 20 | 3,987    
4 Oct 2010  #168

I think the majority of people want to live in peace and not have to go die or kill in order to redraw borders. People who think otherwise are pretty sick.
Torq 25 | 2,262    
4 Oct 2010  #169

eh?
WTF is going on here ? Why does PF allow such flith on their forum? Is this kind of childish insults considered 'free speech' or something ?

People who advocate changing of borders in our region of Europe as well as "giving back the
lands you stole", "regaining territories", "finding a solution for foreign population" blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda, are certainly sick*fucks and they are very rightly called so.

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them),
jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

Sickfu*cks.

People who think otherwise are pretty sick.

That's what I'm saying.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,827    
4 Oct 2010  #170

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them), jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

Bang on the money.

Those who have money tend to see Lwów for what it is - a place to buy up and make money, exactly the same as Germans did in Wrocław and to a lesser extent, Poznań and Gdańsk.
guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #171

It was still fully german and fully dependent on Germany.

Of course it was more German then anything else, 98% of the entire population was German. Just look at the famous people from Danzig's past, no matter how far you go, nothing but Germans. I'm not trying to argue with you. It's just that it happened to be a free city few times in its history and even then it was doing great, mainly because of the connection to Germany.

This town is now fully polish in Poland...there is no legal base for a free city anymore

Sorry BB, you're wrong here. According to the international law, it's still a free city. Read about it BB, don't argue in that point. You'll find confirmation for what I say even on Polish sites.

But that changes everything!

Not legally though.
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #172

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them),
jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

gee

Ok! I'll admit it ! I'm a iranist, fordist, culifowerist, whitebreadist, I cook my eggs,drown everything in beer and after being shot at a few times, I won't speak in public anymore, its called self preservation and its only natural remedy to not becoming a national satistic, as there is a plenty of people at large, who love humanity but hate the people !
Torq 25 | 2,262    
4 Oct 2010  #173

Take it easy, Iron :)

Nobody hates you, dude. We're just calling a spade a spade. Get yourself one of those
"Europa Universalis" games and conquer all the lands you want :)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #174

Sorry BB, you're wrong here. According to the international law, it's still a free city. Read about it BB, don't argue in that point. You'll find confirmation for what I say even on Polish sites.

I don't deny that....not all treaty's and laws of old got officially cancelled but that doesn't mean they are still legal. Look:

deutsches-reich-exil.info/
deutsches-reich-exil.info/Reichsdokumente/Reichspersonenausweis.html

That's the exile government of the German Reich and I could even get an ID for it...fully legal...but totally useless!

When you think any "exile government" of the German Reich would have any chance of world wide recognition then you would probably have a point with a "free city" of Danzig too...but not before ;)

Ok! I'll admit it ! I'm a iranist, fordist, culifowerist, whitebreadist, I cook my eggs,drown everything in beer and after being shot at a few times, I won't speak in public anymore, its called self preservation and its only natural remedy to not becoming a national satistic, as there is a plenty of people at large, who love humanity but hate the people !

No moping allowed here! ;)
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #175

"Europa Universalis" games and conquer all the lands you want :)

I did, its not the same :(

Wendy :)
guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #176

that doesn't mean they are still legal

In this case it is still legal. You see, Germany now practically replaced the Reich and so the Reich doesn't have any legal right as a country but in Danzig's case nothing like this has ever happened. It is still a free city according to the international law.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 7,938    
4 Oct 2010  #177

You see, Germany now practically replaced the Reich

See? You said so yourself "practically" but no legally. The German Reich is still legal because nobody saw the need to have a go at the mass of the old documents.

Also Danzig is now practically Gdansk...legally or not nobody is going to change anything.
guesswho 4 | 1,296    
4 Oct 2010  #178

Also Danzig is now practically Gdansk...legally or not nobody is going to change anything.

It is what it is. I'm not trying to start a WW3 because of it but the legal question is still open and so is the possibility of becoming a free city again. I didn't say it will ever happen, I said it might.
Ironside 44 | 8,309    
4 Oct 2010  #179

I said it might.

dead on ! :)
Stanisław    
18 Feb 2014  #180

Lwow dated back a very very long time ago. It was ruled by sir casimir the third. Lwów is the only city that still has the old buildings dated back as far th 1300's. Which is really rare because germany destroyed all important buildings in poland and now poland renovating them, it doesnt look original and it just looks modern with no history at all. By far the city of lwow always belonged to poland, and those ***** ass ukrainian/russian ***** took it from us.




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