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A History of Gdansk, Poland


OP bolek_tusk 3 | 234
22 Jan 2019 #31
the city will still be a big mess in 50 years;

Have you been to Gdansk recently?
Dougpol1 32 | 2,708
22 Jan 2019 #32
.... a few numbskulls who can't let go of their hate

Excellent post. Everything, in a nutshell.
OP bolek_tusk 3 | 234
22 Jan 2019 #33
A list of famous Danziger personalities

Stretching the definition of famous.... Maybe in Germany....
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #34
The Hanseatic league had a stronghold there; l

Dude that league was a trade cooperation of old times, they could pretend to be something else as long as local rules let them do it. There is a lot of myths about that such leagues.

as 'z Prus'.

So from the Polish language. Thank you.

The thing is I really don't care about anything that happened for 1800 (or better 1900

I get it. It is an American sentiment which stem from the fact that further down the history line when it comes to USA is just a wall. I can sympathise with it.
Dougpol1 32 | 2,708
22 Jan 2019 #35
Gdansk

Do keep up Bolek...:) See my profile. Everybody on this board knows where I live.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #36
There is a lot of myths about that such leagues.

Iron...take your head out of your ass. Denying facts and real knowledge gets you only so far.

The Hanseatic leage needs no myths...its all well documented. For example the "Lübeck Law":

The models for the Danzig Law were the statute books of the Holy Roman Empire and of other Hanseatic cities, especially Lübeck. The merchant city received Lübeck law in 1226.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig_law

The Lübeck law (German: Lübisches (Stadt)Recht) was the constitution of a municipal form of government developed at Lübeck, now in Schleswig-Holstein, after it was made a free city in 1226.

The law provides for self-government. It replaced the personal rule of tribal monarchs descending from ancient times or the rule of the regional dukes and kings that had been established by Charlemagne. The latter held all of his aristocratic vassals personally responsible for the defence, health and welfare of the tribesmen settled on their estates, including the towns. The Lübeck Law in theory made the cities to which it applied independent of royalty.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbeck_law

Thats nearly 1000 years "german meddling" ffs!
OP bolek_tusk 3 | 234
22 Jan 2019 #37
Everybody on this board knows where I live.

Then perhaps you should get out from behind your computer more...

Gdansk has developed greatly since I've been visiting it over the last ten years, and I would love to move there from the $h1thole I live in in the UK.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #38
Stretching the definition of famous.... Maybe in Germany....

Well..why don't you show me the list of famous "polish" Danziger during the last centuries?

After all it is one of the oldest cities in Poland, right?
Dougpol1 32 | 2,708
22 Jan 2019 #39
the millions of Poles who were murdered by the Germans and Russians in WWII.

Talking about perspective ( if we must), as well as those 3 million Polish civilians, you completely forgot to include the 3 million Polish jews murdered at the same time. You obviously needed reminding of that fact.
jon357 67 | 16,836
22 Jan 2019 #40
So from the Polish language

From Prussia. Thank you.

Dude that league was a trade cooperation of old times

It was much much more than that. As BB just said, it needs no myth since it left far better documentation (being better organised amp much more developed) than many of its hinterlands.
Dougpol1 32 | 2,708
22 Jan 2019 #41
Gdansk has developed greatly since I've been visiting it over the last ten years

Yes, and great credit to the mayor! Whilst a great many other Polish cities, which were not levelled in war, remain utterly depressing places to work and live in, due in part to a lack of local initiative.
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #42
A list of famous Danziger

So what?
a Polish scholar of Slavic languages and literatures - Aleksander Bruckner.
Józef Unrug was a Pole and Polish admiral who helped reestablish Poland's navy after World War I. During the opening stages of World War II, he served as the Polish Navy's commander-in-chief.

Karol Bunsch - Polish writer.

Just from the top if the head. There is more.
OP bolek_tusk 3 | 234
22 Jan 2019 #43
you completely forgot to include the 3 million Polish jews murdered

Excuse me. I said millions of Poles.

Are you suggesting that the word Poles does not include Jews?

By your reasoning I have to include Jews as a special subset of Poles otherwise they don't get included.
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #44
From Prussia. Thank you.

Yes from the province of the Polish Kingdom. Thank you.

It was much much more than that.

No, it wasn't. It was typical for that time period people and organization were more self-relying. That Myth is being created today.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #45
Karol Bunsch - Polish writer.

Danziger! Iron...famous people from Danzig...not Krakau (born and died).

Aleksander Bruckner.

Born in Bereschany, Ukraine, died in Berlin

Józef Unrug

Born in Brandenburg, Havel, died in France

Just from the top if the head. There is more.

Famous Poles from Danzig? Keep 'em coming..
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #46
The Hanseatic leage needs no myths.

Not, but it was just a trade corporation with a huge self-governing rights. Yet, it was typical to the time, as states, kingdoms moved towards centralization and establishing more firm control of its provinces the league just vanished.

I get it that in todays centralized world with omnipotent all controlling state it is nice to have some myths about free cities, lone rangers of the medieval world and such but that just a myth. In fact if you were some low key struggling merchant at the time such a corporation F you up a big time or you had to pay them and listen to them if you wanted to feed your family. They were no charity.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #47
Yet, it was typical to the time,

Well, why do yout think the Hanseatic League became so famous, with leaving its traces till today, if everybody and his grandmom did it?

You can see it all over the Baltic, with your own eyes, in the architecture, in nearly every port till up to St Petersburg...they could be another country, so much connects them from this time. No matter that the countries they belong to now are often arch enemies and destroyed each other...these ports connects much more than what divides them.

Thats exactly what makes them so scary to many hard core nationalists...they fear them and what they stand for and what they could become again! They are special Danzig/Gdansk is special!
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #48
Iron...famous people from Danzig.

The point is that their names mean nothing, people with German names can be Polish and vice -versa. Residents of Gdansk were loyal subject of the Polish Crown they were Polish, End of story. What do you not understand?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #49
The point is that their names mean nothing,

So, all these Germans, which spoke german and latin, were secret Poles...ah ja...

Residents of Gdansk were loyal subject of the Polish Crown they were Polish, End of story. What do you not understand?

What makes that different to the polish partitions?
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #50
Well, why do yout think the Hanseatic League became so famous,

Cause they were big, and thrived for a relatively long time? duh?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #51
And where are the other examples you speak off? After all if such leages had been so common there must have been lots of it, big and successful...
OP bolek_tusk 3 | 234
22 Jan 2019 #52
Yes, and great credit to the mayor!

Of course he had a lot to do with redeveloping Gdansk. I have never said otherwise. But weren't you just saying that it will still be a big mess in 50 years.

Also, lets not forget that when there are lot of developers at the door they come offering 'incentives''....
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #53
o, all these Germans, which spoke german and latin, were secret Poles...ah ja...

Secretly? No, they were proudly and openly loyal subject of the Polish Kingdom and thus were their political affiliation. Translating it into modern terms their were Polish.

Dude I think it is a language barrier here. You seems to be missing my point. Not the first time. I guess and I don't want to be a dick here, your English is not up to task.

By the way, how do you know they were limited just to those two languages?

What makes that different to the polish partitions?

Err, nobody force they into it. They choose it, it was their own volition. No one Conquered them or took over all German provinces so they had nowhere to go if they would like to.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #54
Dude I think it is a language barrier here. Y

No...I see crap when I read it. My English, as bad as it might be, is sadly no shield against that.

In what world are you living that you firmly believe Germans, real Germans by language, by culture, by tradition are so far different from Poles that they are ready and willing to throw all their heritage over board the moment the next ruler decides to change borders and official claim, only to cheer now happily for the next foreign ruler.

Do you really think the Danziger started now to speak polish to each other? To eat polish dishes, to dance polish dances, to listen to polish music, to enjoy polish poetry? To cheer for the polish team? What made them to happy Poles now?

Do you really think we are so different?
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #55
No...I see crap when I read it.

Do you? Maybe you just know F all and hence you cannot distinguish between a nugget of a new info (new to you) and crap?

I'm talking about mentality and reality which were real for the people of those times.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
22 Jan 2019 #56
And the mentality is so much easier to shred than an ethnicity...sure! Townspeople with a traditional german mentality get over night with the polish crown also a polish mentality. Ahja...

Face it Iron, this time you backed yourself into a corner...you are wrong, just admit it and we can move on.
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #57
board the moment the next ruler decides to change borders

I'm talking about a specific historic reality. Not mixing past and present and what the hell else you want to throw in the pot.

Historically people of Prussia who were subject of the Teutonic order formed (grass roots - modern term) conspiracy and rebelled against their government/rulers. They asked, applied to became subject of the King of Poland and that what had happened. They made their own decision as a community regardless of the language or whatnot. That wasn't the issue for them.

I never said anything about their mentality being German or want not. WTF are you about? It was possible to speak German at home and be a loyal Polish subject i.e, modern terms in today lingo their were Polish.

Hey I need to finish my wife is nagging me ...
Ironside 50 | 10,922
22 Jan 2019 #59
Especially not Poles in the nationalist sense...

Depends. Maybe for German nationalist is unthinkable for a Polish one that is not a case.


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