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If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish?


Torq
15 Feb 2011 #31
there was enough abuse on both sides

One side commited much more of what you call "abuse" than the other. So much more,
in fact, that even comparing both "abuses" borders on indecency.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#Poland.2 C_including_former_German_territories

The link leads to an article about expulsions of Germans after WW2 - something that was
decided by the UK, US and USSR. Blaming Poland for that is somewhat strange, as we didn't
have anything to say (just as we didn't have anything to say about our post-war borders.)
Not that Poles were very eager to live alongside those who murdered them, but still - the
expulsions weren't our decision.

now, the WWII is over and it's time for forgiveness

Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree with that.
Harry
15 Feb 2011 #32
What exactly Polish ethnical cleansing are you talking about, BB?

Akcja Wisła ring any bells?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
15 Feb 2011 #33
They are all well and happy now, but missed Poland dreadfully for many years.

most likely they missed the part where they once used to live, not necessarily Poland as a whole
(my assumption but I might be mistaking here).
NomadatNet 1 | 457
15 Feb 2011 #34
I remember a poster here once saying that 17th century Poles should have emigrated to the US, so I suppose anything can happen.

I speak some English, much economy, but, I wasn't the one who said this. However, it is quite logical remembering written historical facts that tell about things happened during this period in Europe around 17th century.

Early in 1900s, even in late 1800s, there were some people, some call Zionists, who applied Ottoman to buy some of Palestine lands. Stupid Ottomans didn't sell and their tousands of soldiers were killed there by Arabs who collobrated with Lawrence's soldiers. Britain gave the promise to the both sides, Arabs (by blood) and Zionists (by money.) So, Poland's political figures of those days can't be expected to do things independently from the policy of Britain, winner of WWI. So, it is unlikely that Jews of Poland lands during those days were given citizenships in mass, except a few individual people with qualifications who can be useful for Poland and Britain. So, I don't think Poland was independent country between 1920 and 1950 either.
Torq
15 Feb 2011 #35
Akcja Wisła ring any bells?

Even though Akcja Wisła has nothing to do with Polish-German relations that we were discussing,
and I doubt that it was what BB meant, it is worth mentioning that Akcja Wisła, alongside its
Soviet equivalent Akcja Zachód, took place in 1947 when Poland was a Soviet vassal, and was
condemned by joined declaration of presidents of Poland and Ukraine in 2007.
Softsong 5 | 495
15 Feb 2011 #36
Guesswho, I understand what you are saying. If they had been from West Prussia or East Prussia, they may not have missed Poland. My family's position was different than ethnic Germans who lived in places that had been part of Germany. This part of my family that I refer to were originally part of the Dutch/North Germans/Frisians who lived in the delta areas of Gdańsk and gradually migrated down the Vistula River. They were invited into Poland to help drain the swamps and were allowed to have German schools, and communities. My grandmother and her family lived in Congress Poland for close to 250 years. They never had German citizenship so did not feel the way Germans who lived in Danzig/Gdańsk felt. They received German citizenship once they arrived in Germany based on their speaking German and having German surnames.

Poland was their home. They did not like the Russians occupying their country during the partitions. They got along with the Polish nobles and their Polish neighbors, but they maintained Low German, and a sense of being ethnically German. So, yes.They truly missed Poland with all their hearts and wrote poetry lamenting the loss of their home.

One man who is also a distant relative, fled to Germany and then to Canada. He says that when he hears the national anthem of Germany or Canada, it fails to move him. The only anthem that moves him is the Polish anthem. They were in a very tough spot. But thankfully, they are happy now.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
15 Feb 2011 #37
and was condemned by joined declaration of presidents of Poland and Ukraine in 2007.

Indeed. Poland's post-1989 handling of Operation Vistula has been nothing short of excellent - not even flinching when some idiots in Ukraine try stirring things up. I'd actually say that it's a genuine Polish success story in diplomacy - to the point where many normal Ukrainians (we'll ignore the village peasants, but we can't expect them to understand) are happy to live next door to Poland. Lech Kaczynski's decisive support of the Orange Revolution was also a great move.

However, Poland's supression of the Komancza Republic, as well as the other one (I forget it's name, but it's the Lemko-Rusyn one) are more black marks in her history.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
16 Feb 2011 #38
They either did take the new citizenship or they had to leave the new Poland.

Good, do they deserved better ?

Contrary to the polish big scale ethnical cleansing the number of Poles in Prussia actually grew during the partitions.

Yeah? Ethnic cleansing my ass, when and where ? Anything that was done to a German by a Pole, could be confront by a deeds done by a German to Pole!

So, shut your bloody propaganda war !
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
16 Feb 2011 #39
They either did take the new citizenship or they had to leave the new Poland.

Over a million did stay, many left in the 1980's and 1990's when it was possible i'm sure many would have stayed if it wasn't for the terrible economic conditions.
JaneDoe 5 | 114
16 Feb 2011 #40
I think Poles didn't want to let go of their Polish nationality, Polish sentiment and roots, because their country was taken away from them. You need to believe in who you really are, otherwise you'll extinct.
George8600 10 | 636
16 Feb 2011 #41
since Poland didn't exist as a country for many years

Like all other countries in this world have, no countries have existed since the beginning of time, they're man made creations.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,945
20 Feb 2011 #42
He says that when he hears the national anthem of Germany or Canada, it fails to move him. The only anthem that moves him is the Polish anthem.

THIS is what descides a nationality! Where his/her heart is!!! People should read this 1 thousand times :=)

So, yes.They truly missed Poland with all their hearts and wrote poetry lamenting the loss of their home.

Indeed
I really like all of your posts :=)
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
20 Feb 2011 #43
THIS is what descides a nationality! Where his/her heart is!!! People should read this 1 thousand times :=)

Agree.
Harry
20 Feb 2011 #44
Over a million did stay, many left in the 1980's and 1990's when it was possible i'm sure many would have stayed if it wasn't for the terrible economic conditions.

What terrible economic conditions? I was in Poland for most of the 1990s and I very certainly didn't see terrible economic conditions then. I saw a great nation getting on with the the task of putting itself back on its feet after decades of oppression. No it wasn't easy but it wasn't terrible either: I'm proud that I did my part working to make Poland a better place. Of course, part of our work had already been done for us: most of the collaborating traitors had already fled Poland in the dying days of the commie regime (1988 to be precise) and had taken their traitorous spawn with them. That certainly made Poland a better place.

One thing though, how did your uncle get to be the third richest man in the village given the terrible economic conditions?
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,945
20 Feb 2011 #45
Maybe PF should introduce some kind of "I like" or "+" button

My father tried to study in Norway at that time and met my mother. But really were there so many "commies" running away during that time? How come there are socialistic parties who get... Oh right Poles can vote from abroad! Stupid me xD
Softsong 5 | 495
22 Feb 2011 #46
Yes, an "I like" button or + good idea! :-D

Thanks Mr. Grunwald and Skysoulmate!
guesswho 4 | 1,289
22 Feb 2011 #47
My family's position was different than ethnic Germans who lived in places that had been part of Germany.

Are you talking about your whole family? (it's pretty complicated)
plk123 8 | 4,149
22 Feb 2011 #48
Essentially, anyone living on Polish territory on January 20th 1920 gained Polish citizenship automatically.

really? i thought you had to have Piast blood to be Polish... hmmm
Softsong 5 | 495
22 Feb 2011 #49
Guesswho, it would be too boring to examine all my family lines. Basically, the ethnic German lines had lived in Russian-Poland for 250 years A few had great-grandparents that lived across the border in West Prussia in what is now Brodnica, Poland but was W. Strasburg at the time.

And a very long time ago, they came from the Gdańsk delta area as part of the Dutch settlements. They must have mixed with the local Prussian Germans, and began speaking a version of Low German that had a lot of Flemish influence.

So, Before that, most likely they came from the Spanish Netherlands in search of religious freedom, Frisia, and Northern Germany. But that was way before I traced any of my individual lines. It has taken me long enough just to get back to the late 1600's with certainty. lol

Therefore, what I said holds true, they did not have memories of Germany or Prussia that they held onto, but memories of Poland. Yet, they fully felt they were German ethnically and spoke Low German at home, high German in the cities, and also spoke Polish. Some knew Russian as well.

I DO have ethnically Polish family on my mother's side, and they were Prussian citizens. So, the nationalities of my family were generally switched from their ethnicity.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
22 Feb 2011 #50
Thanks Mr. Grunwald and Skysoulmate!

You're welcome. Wait, how come he's Mr. and I'm just a mate? LOL. It's ok, you can call me Ty. :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
22 Feb 2011 #51
One thing though, how did your uncle get to be the third richest man in the village given the terrible economic conditions?

I'm sure his father wasn't doing too badly either, as the director of a defence factory, he almost certainly was -

a) trusted by the State
b) trusted by the Party comrades
c) Profiting handsomely
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,443
22 Feb 2011 #52
and was
condemned by joined declaration of presidents of Poland and Ukraine in 2007.

true:)
Softsong 5 | 495
22 Feb 2011 #53
O.K. O.K. Maybe I should just say thank you Pan Skysoulmate and Pan Grunwald. ;-)

Pani Asia aka Softie
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
22 Feb 2011 #54
:)

In all honesty I struggle with this Pan this and Pan that. Would make me feel old if people called me that.

However, just for you Pani Asia
Softsong 5 | 495
22 Feb 2011 #55
*Blushes* Awwwww....I love it! Thanks!

I know what you mean though. I love the South in the USA, but the first time someone called me Ma'am when I was merely twenty-something, I felt ancient!
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
22 Feb 2011 #56
If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish?

The irony of it is that such question was conceived in Yanks mind.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,945
23 Feb 2011 #57
Wait, how come he's Mr. and I'm just a mate?

I chose mine, you chose yours...

Pan Grunwald

me like :D

However, just for you Pani Asia

oh you! Didn't give me enough time! :p

really? i thought you had to have Piast blood to be Polish... hmmm

There been so much mixture between Poles, Germans, Ruthianians (Belarussians&Ukrainians), Lithuanians, Russians, God knows what ever that lived in Poland :=) Saying one is 100% Polish blooded Piast then your deeply proud of your non-mixing roots or your trying to hit the top nationalist list


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