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POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?


Ironside 50 | 10,939
2 Jan 2013 #751
that Poland isn't in Eastern Europe, despite culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography.

We have established already that placing Poland in the Eastern Europe has nothing to do with those kind of reasons. Geographically only ignoramus can claim that Poland is Eastern Europe. As for cuisine, in Poland a German dish is commonly sold as Polish cuisine. If you mean perogis those you can have in Italy and China. Certainly not eastern European countries.

Realpolitik place Poland in the Eastern Europe and that is that.
Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #752
Google it. You'll certainly find plenty in this thread.

I've Google it and I'm definitely not suffering from that lol

We also share some with Italians, e.g. Pizza. Nobody. I hope nobody is suggesting that makes Poland part of Southern Europe. The overwhelming bulk of the Polish culinary tradition is Eastern European, part of a continuum stretching from the Polish western border right to Vladivostok.

Yes, we share Pizza with Italians too, as the rest of the world. But the rest of the world doesn't share saurkraut with the Germans ;) Or does it?

We also share religion, alphabet, architecture, art with the West.

Often a relative newcomer has far less political and cultural baggage and cares little about the various inter-Eastern European debates and arguments. In short, objectivity.

As already illustrated by my comment from 17:34 objectivity doesn't look like your strongest point... It's interesting that you think that you have less political and cultural baggage.

What I see is a lot of special pleading

You see it this way, becuase you're not being objective.

by people who earnestly want for whatever reason that Poland isn't in Eastern Europe, despite culture,

Listen, man, the only reason I even write in this thread is because of people like you and berni23. I don't have a special wish of being Central, Eastern or Martian for that matter lol Berni23 even doesn't want to enumerate Eastern European countries but wants Poland to be in Eastern Poland very much - you're not curious why?

despite culture, cuisine

I've already wrote about the culture. And as for cuisine - Polish cuisine is a mix of many cuisines, especially of our neighbours, but not only. For example, goulash isn't Slavic, you know ;) We also eat dishes that are considered Slavic (some claim they aren't because you have dumplings in Italy or Asia too), because we're Slavs lol Noone claims we aren't lol

tradition,

What tradition?

language,

Even the language is West Slavic language not East Slavic. Poles are West Slavs. So, yes, we differ from the East Slavs. Why is it such a problem for you?

history,

Wha...? How history can be Eastern? lol

architecture,

What's Eastern about Polish architecture? ;D

landscape,

O__________O

:D

OMG, in Poland even landscape is Eastern... The sky and the Sun probably too :D

economic output

What do you mean?

and geography.

According to geography Poland is Central Europe ;D

Basically a desire to separate Poland from centuries of tradition and from its largest and most dominant neighbour.

What tradition?
And what separates Poland from "its largest and most dominant neighbour" is a bit more then our desire ;) You're making biased assumptions, again.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2013 #753
I think berni23 and jon357 is trying to proove to us that they are fools, that's it..

Guess what? You succeeded! :)

Last time i'm posting these links because i still have some faith in them :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Poland

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_history_of_Poland

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuisine_of_Poland

Just read it and stop spam your nonsense thank you!
Wulkan - | 3,250
2 Jan 2013 #754
Prolly not the best choice of illustrating Polish cultural closeness to its neighbors to the east, but i couldnt find another so fast.

if he was a new member it would make me think that he's a troll rather then the goofy man.

We also share some with Italians, e.g. Pizza. Nobody. I hope nobody is suggesting that makes Poland part of Southern Europe.

Pizza is a traditional Polish cuisine... there should be some sticky joke thread on this forum

Poland isn't in Eastern Europe, despite culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography.

did you actually think about what you wrote or just thoughtlessly came up with all posible features that could describe a country? because if so then it makes you look a bit less s1lly
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #755
As i already said twice if one would name one region of Europe based on language, ethnicity and culture it would be Eastern Europe,

What I see on that map is Poland being in the same group with other Slavic countries, so you say Slovenia or Macedonia are Eastern European too :))?

Wrong link:

Again, what is this map showing ? Poland is in the same group with western (and Central ! :)) France while Russia is in another one :)

since geographically it makes the most sense.

Not really :))

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe

They are not.

Yes, they are :))

the fanatical views that Poland is ethnically and linguistically closer to the West than its eastern neighbors seem to be deeply rooted in some people.

Please tell us which PF members say so.

Nope, they are Central Europe just like Poland is

OK, so you finally agree that Poland is in Central Europe :))
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #756
You see it this way, becuase you're not being objective.

Actually I'm being very objective and absolutely unbiased. You however seem to have an axe to grind, probably a mix of cultural cringe and misplaced nationalism.

I spend quite a lot of time in Central Europe, however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe.

OMG, in Poland even landscape is Eastern... The sky and the Sun probably too :D

I'm not sure what the textspeak is about - perhaps you should attend a better language school, however yes, the landscape round here is much more Eastern than you'd like to admit. Check out the 'Europe of Squirrels' and the 'Europe of Rabbits' for a nice comparison.

Anyway, I'm just off to my friend's house out of town (single storey, wooden, opposite an onion-domed church) for some pierogi and vodka. Maybe some kasza and cabbage soup too.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #757
Actually I'm being very objective and absolutely unbiased.

You crashed us all 10 thousand times with this argument :))
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #758
Well yes, thanks for cutting through all the baggage and realising the plain truth for a change.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2013 #759
I spend quite a lot of time in Central Europe, however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe.

Who is paying you to write this rubbish?
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #760
Another voice from afar, trying to tell us something misleading about where we live.
Wulkan - | 3,250
2 Jan 2013 #761
however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe

So is it only Warsaw in Eastern Europe? What about Wroclaw for example? xDD
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #762
A strange question. Presumably you don't really think that the appearance, heritage and history of Warsaw and Wrocław are the same. One would hope not, anyway, or next time you'll be confusing Białystok and Lublin.

Mind you, most Wroclaw people are no more than a generation or so away from somewhere further east.
Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #763
Actually I'm being very objective and absolutely unbiased.

xD
I'm just as crushed by this assessment as Grzegorz is ;)))

You however seem to have an axe to grind, probably a mix of cultural cringe and misplaced nationalism.

Well, it's just shows how little (very little, really...) you know about me (yet you're quick to judge).
I don't have a "cultural cringe" and I'm not a nationalist. I'm a liberal by Polish standards, I vote for PO and pretty much detest PiS lol Not enough? I'm tolerant as far as nationality, race, and religion is concerned. I was very happy when Obama was elected and my eyes get all wattery every time I hear 'I Have a Dream' speech on TV ;) I've spent at least 5 years defending Russians and Russia (and East Slavs) from Poles on the internet (and in real life too). Not enough? I'm all for ecuminism of Christian denominations, I even went to Germany for a youth gathering of Taizé Community. I absolutely love how the Orthodox churches look like :) I also don't downgrade any other religions or cultures. I believe Judaism and Islam are Christianity's sister religions and it always pains me when we are at our throats.

My uncle is Ukrainian :)
I have Russian friends :)
Oh, and I have nothing against gays or lesbians too! Can you imagine? ;)
That's me in the jist, more or less.

I spend quite a lot of time in Central Europe, however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe.

In what way is Warsaw Eastern Europe?

I'm not sure what the textspeak is about - perhaps you should attend a better language school, however yes, the landscape round here is much more Eastern than you'd like to admit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscape

Now, in what way landscape in Poland is more "Eastern" than, let's say, in Germany?

Check out the 'Europe of Squirrels' and the 'Europe of Rabbits' for a nice comparison.

What are you talking about? o_O
Squirrels and rabbits in Poland are more Eastern than in Germany? xD

Anyway, I'm just off to my friend's house out of town (single storey, wooden, opposite an onion-domed church) for some pierogi and vodka. Maybe some kasza and cabbage soup too.

Onion-domed church - you mean "cerkiew"?
And when you come back, tomorrow for example, will you explain why you consider Polish "culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography" - as Eastern? :)
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #764
Now, in what way landscape in Poland is more "Eastern" than, let's say, in Germany?

I refer you to the post you quoted. Rather than a Wikipedia page in English about landscape in general. Unless you really do need to ask that:

Now, in what way landscape in Poland is more "Eastern" than, let's say, in Germany?

Perhaps you think that agriculture is the same everywhere.

Onion-domed church - you mean "cerkiew"?

No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

And when you come back or, tomorrow, for example, will you explain why you consider Polish "culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography" - as Eastern? :)

Or even better, perhaps you could explain why you think/pretend it isn't.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #765
Check out the 'Europe of Squirrels' and the 'Europe of Rabbits' for a nice comparison.

I typed it in google and no results. Maybe you could post some links?
Of course landscapes can vary depenging on geographical area but your statement is very weird, jon. Belarus and Lithuania is associated with absolutely different landscape than, for example, central Poland. Also Poland itself is very varied in terms of landscapes (just like every country). You may associate Poland with pine forests (or mixed forests) just like Germany, but in my area where I live there is no pine forests, only deciduous forest.

Great Britain looks totally different comparing to Poland, that's true. But it's an island, with a mild, island climate. You cannot compare it to other "western" countries.

It's all very vague what you have written.

You should also lecture us about architecture styles. You seem to know more than we do but you're not precise enough to take your ideas into consideration. What's the name of the prevalent architecture style in Poland, once again? I mean the one which is specific for eastern european.

No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

Post a picture. I can't imagine onion-like church.
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #766
Oh dear, you're floundering now. This 'prevalent style of architecture' that you're on about sounds interesting. Check out some of the vernacular architecture here. It has more in common with places further East than places further west.
Wulkan - | 3,250
2 Jan 2013 #767
No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

It is Polish word indeed however it doesnt mean church :-)

Or even better, perhaps you could explain why you think/pretend it isn't.

Are you going to back up your non sense eventually or just beat about the bush?

Oh dear, you're floundering now. This 'prevalent style of architecture' that you're on about sounds interesting. Check out some of the vernacular architecture here. It has more in common with places further East than places further west.

more beating about the bush...ywan
Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #768
Perhaps you think that agriculture is the same everywhere.

So agriculture can be Eastern too? xD You've got me completely confused about what you understand as "landscape".
Do you mean: nature
Or: nature and architecture
Or maybe: only architecture?

No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

I know how it's called in English, but I wanted to know whether you mean by that an Orthodox/Greek Catholic Church? This is how it's called in Polish - "cerkiew". A Catholic church is "kościół".

Or even better, perhaps you could explain why you think/pretend it isn't.

No, don't be lazy :) You wrote that, so now explain why you "think/pretend" it is.
In order not to encumber you too much - let's start with architecture, since you've mentioned "onion-domed church" :)
What is Eastern about Polish architecture? Explain, please :)
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #769
Check out some of the vernacular architecture here. It has more in common with places further East than places further west.

John I live in Poland! I'm right now in Poland! And I have no idea what are you talking about!
Please at least post some pictures. You have whole Internet to find and show us what you mean.
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #770
So agriculture can be Eastern too

Got it in one.

In order not to encumber you too much

I doubt you could do that if you tried with all the skill you can muster, however you may like to scan through some earlier posts in this thread by myself and others in which the matters you are interested in have been discussed fully.
Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #771
John I live in Poland! I'm right now in Poland! And I have no idea what are you talking about!

Me too :)) I was born in Poland, I live here all my life and I visited Western and Central European countries, but I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe he's writing about Orthodox churches?
Wulkan - | 3,250
2 Jan 2013 #772
Please at least post some pictures. You have whole Internet to find and show us what you mean.

don't expect him to spend hours on serching in internet just to find out he was wrong, he prefers to beat about the bush just to keep the argument going, I don't expect that he's grown a pair to admit that either...
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #773
Maybe he's writing about Orthodox churches?

I can't think of anything "onion shaped" other than that.
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #774
Orthodox churches

Actually the village has one of each, RC and Polish Orthodox. Both have onion domes.

serching in internet just to find out he was wrong

Perhaps that's because I (and various other posters who've made the same points) am right. However much you wish it was otherwise. 'Serching' the Internet isn't the be all and end all, you know.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #775
don't expect him to spend hours on serching in internet just to find out he was wrong, he prefers to beat about the bush just to keep the argument going, I don't expect that he's grown a pair to admit that either...

Yes, I know he always has a problem to acknowledge of being wrong. He even dares to argue with Poles about what is correct in Polish language. Where was that discussion? it was hilarious.

'Serching' the Internet isn't the be all and end all, you know.

It's merely a few clicks. Why can't you do it?
Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #776
I doubt you could do that if you tried with all the skill you can muster, however you may like to scan through some earlier posts in this thread by myself and others in which the matters you are interested in have been discussed fully.

No, jon, I'm not gonna read 23 pages, sorry. You weren't lazy when you wrote that Poland is Eastern in basically everything so don't be lazy in proving it. At least couple of sentences, some photos, come on :) I've proposed you just one topic for discussion - Polish architecture.

I can't think of anything "onion shaped" other than that.

Well, maybe a mosque could have something like that :)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meczet_w_Bohonikach

I guess Poland is Middle East since we have mosques too ;)

Actually the village has one of each, RC and Polish Orthodox. Both have onion domes.

Now that's cool - could make photos of each? :)
Wulkan - | 3,250
2 Jan 2013 #777
Perhaps that's because I (and various other posters who've made the same points) am right.

Are you going to cover your ass by the invisible friends now?
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #778
In Poland one can see all kinds of architecture styles, especially considering churches. But I think the most common are Il Gesu "copies".

Original Il Gesu (Rome):

Il Gesu

Church in Cracow:

Kościół Świętych Apostołów Piotra i Pawła w Krakowie

There are similar churches in Warsaw but I can't remember their names.
jon357 66 | 17,030
2 Jan 2013 #779
Invisible? I suppose everything on the net is in a way invisible. To take the edge of your customary bile though, I'd refer you to some of the earlier pages in this very long thread where all necessary points were made and it was established that we are indeed in Eastern Europe.

No, jon, I'm not gonna read 23 pages, sorry. You weren't lazy when you wrote that Poland is Eastern in basically everything so don't be lazy in proving it. At least couple of sentences, some photos, come on :) I've proposed you just one topic for discussion - Polish architecture.

So you're posting in a thread that you haven't bothered to read and are accusing others of being lazy! That does rather cast doubt on anything else you've tried to say. By the way, you'll find plenty about Polish vernacular architecture here.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #780
you'll find plenty about Polish vernacular architecture here.

link to thread please.


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