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POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?


telefonitika
17 Jun 2008 #361
It is considered a Central European country now :)
southern 75 | 7,096
17 Jun 2008 #362
For me eastern Europe means the cultural ancestors of Byzantine Empire with orthodox church,

This is Russia,not eastern Europe.A different culture.
For me Eastern Europe means Poland,CR,Slovakia,Hungary.This is hardcore eastern Europe.
Romania,Bulgaria,Serbia,Croatia etc are Balkans.
Russia,Belarus,Ukraine are Russian,not European,not Asian,in between.
Christopherus - | 3
4 Jul 2008 #363
Why is the question so important? Having read most replies, there seems to be a tendency that Central Europe is somehow preferable. Why's that? Just because some of you say so? So, first we have to agree on what the cultural common denominator of such an entity should be, and that is, I'm afraid, quite impossible. Western vs. Eastern Christianity? Then Poland clearly is a Western country according to Samuel Huntington's influential "Clash of Civilizations", in contrast to both Islam and the Orthodox world. But with regards to an ethnic concept it could be defined as Eastern European ethnically and/or linguistically. Then, the concept of Central Europe is - at least historically - a German one: Defining herself arguably neither a Western nor a Slavic country, the German pre-Cold War elite referred to their sphere of influence as Mitteleuropa (lit. Central Europe) in sharp contrast to the Slavic "Eastern" sphere and the Western democracies. These and all the other cultural theories (like the Iron Curtain argument) are certainly challengeable, so let's agree that Poland is a hybrid, and that is - culturally and economically - by no means a disadvantage.
randompal 7 | 306
4 Jul 2008 #364
Why is the question so important? Having read most replies, there seems to be a tendency that Central Europe is somehow preferable. Why's that?

that's easy to answer - the West is seen as more successful and prestigious, and some Poles have long had an inferiority complex associated with that simple fact of life. The East is popularly seen as the land of the barbarians (read: Russians and Mongols).

Saying you live in Central Europe is a small cheap boost to pride, as it makes it sound like you are closer to the west. Saying you live in E Europe makes it sound like you live amongst the Ruskies. Not all Poles feel this way but this mindset isnt that rare.
Dublinjohn - | 38
4 Jul 2008 #365
yes it is,its eastern to this place.....

English are ya again?

That is rich coming from you, plastic paddy, you can give it eh? try taking your own advice. Sticking up for your neighbors.
Shawn_H
12 Feb 2009 #366
And the debate rages on, only with players at a higher level than us mere mortals.....

Sergej Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister and one of its most experienced diplomats, was speaking at a press conference in Moscow on Wednesday after meeting his Czech counterpart Karel Schwarzenberg. The two men are usually on friendly terms, but Mr Lavrov's description of Poland and the Czech Republic - which have agreed to host parts of the U.S. missile defence shield - as being in "Eastern Europe" drew an immediate response from Mr Schwarzenberg:

And,

Michael Romancov is Professor of Political Geography at the Metropolitan University of Prague:
"If someone like a minister of defence or minister of foreign affairs is using those geopolitical expressions, he or she definitely knows what he or she wants to say. So I think it was a political statement which was used not by mistake, but on purpose to show that Moscow again thinks that this part of Europe has or will turn to Russia's zone of influence."

Source radio.cz/en/article/113186

The Russians just won't give it up.
zetigrek
25 May 2010 #367
North Eastern geographically but for a long time Eastern Europe was a concept.

North-eastern??? I've always thought that middle point of the Europe is near polish-lithuanian boarder. That makes it more western. And why north???

that's easy to answer - the West is seen as more successful and prestigious, and some Poles have long had an inferiority complex associated with that simple fact of life.

what a bullsh*t. Did you heard about Western and Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire)? In later centuries after the split, those countries who were christianised by Byzantine are consider as eastern culture (easter orthodox church or greek catholic church, cyrilic letters, etc). Those who were christianised by Western Roman Empire are western culture (Roman Catholic Church).

Thats why its weird for every Pole to be regarded as Esatern European.
convex 20 | 3,978
25 May 2010 #368
I wonder if there are threads on Italian forums right now arguing if Italy is in Southern Europe, or Western Europe....

Did you heard about Western and Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire)?

And then there was that whole iron curtain and different political systems bit, and we realigned to that.
zetigrek
25 May 2010 #369
And then there was that whole iron curtain and different political systems bit, and we realigned to that.

But now it isnt.
In Poland is fully acepted name "Central East Europe" if someone want to accent the iron curtain past. Esatern Europe is not correct.

Some ppl in this thread was asking why Poles so urge to call Poland Central Europe. I ask why foreigners urge to call Poland Eastern Europe so much. Why dont they like the thought that Poland is not Eastern Europe? ;)
Pierdolski - | 31
25 May 2010 #370
If you look at the map of Europe, Poland is smack in the center.
nincompoop_not 2 | 192
25 May 2010 #371
Geographically, central Europe. Politically, eastern Europe

amen to that
convex 20 | 3,978
25 May 2010 #372
In Poland is fully acepted name "Central East Europe" if someone want to accent the iron curtain past. Esatern Europe is not correct.

Except the UN statistics division considers Poland to be part of Eastern Europe.

I ask why foreigners urge to call Poland Eastern Europe so much. Why dont they like the thought that Poland is not Eastern Europe? ;)

Because they're used to it. Poles get upset because they see it in a negative context. Or?
A J 4 | 1,088
25 May 2010 #373
For someone who lives in Russia, Poland would be to the West. For someone who lives in England, Poland would be to the East. It's not very complicated if you think about it.

:)
zetigrek
25 May 2010 #374
Except the UN statistics division considers Poland to be part of Eastern Europe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe says:

* The United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names (UNGEGN) was set up to consider the technical problems of domestic standardization of geographical names. The Group is composed of experts from various linguistic/geographical divisions that have been established at the UN Conferences on the Standardization of Geographical Names.

1. Eastern Europe, Northern and Central Asia Division: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Georgia, Russian Federation, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia and Uzbekistan.
2. East Central and South-East Europe Division: Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Greece, Hungary, Poland, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Republic of Macedonia, Turkey, Ukraine.
3. Romano-Hellenic Division: Fourteen countries (...)

East Central as I said before is acceptable (Polish: Europa środkowo-wschodnia)

Because they're used to it.

I'm also used to term central Europe.

Poles get upset because they see it in a negative context. Or?

No, they just feel that are constantly confused with Russians. I dont see any negative contect but i just want to emphasize that we dont feel connected with eastern culture.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
25 May 2010 #375
We, Poles just like to think of Poland as central Europe. For many of us everything estern is clearly inferior. And while we do know that one cannot call Poland "the western country" with a straight face (yet?), we do not like to think of ourselvs as estern.
zetigrek
25 May 2010 #376
Kendzior get some education! Read encyclopedia:

The Clash of Civilization

from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
kondzior 12 | 1,200
25 May 2010 #377
It it serious buissness to you, now dosent it?
Well, Zetigreczynko, I was more or less joking. But after the years of communism we are far from being part of zachodnioeuropejskiego basenu kuturowego. It will take time to get back there...
zetigrek
25 May 2010 #378
Well, Zetigreczynko, I was more or less joking. But after the years of communism we are far from being part of zachodnioeuropejskiego basenu kuturowego. It will take time to get back there...

So the good compromise would be CENTRAL europe :)
nincompoop_not 2 | 192
25 May 2010 #379
Seanus:
Geographically, central Europe. Politically, eastern Europe
amen to that

still correct

would add one thing - culture
when Poland was crying because of the partitions, England was ahead with its industrial revolution
Poland didnt have much influence on Western or Eastern (Russian/South Europe) culture

so yeah - we are central - always in between and undecided
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 May 2010 #380
We must remember that Poland's Eastern European aspects were largely imposed on them and were hardly embraced.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
26 May 2010 #382
No. Poland lies where she lies and that is the end of it. She is part of Europe in her own space. Nothing more, nothing less.

>^..^<

M-G (things can be so simple)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 May 2010 #383
Wow, that's a huge point I made and you think it doesn't matter? Ironside, try reminding yourself that foreigners associate Poland with communism and this is far from accurate. Poles had many commies in their ranks but the Eastern aspect was imposed on them. I can't believe you see fit to dismiss this.
nincompoop_not 2 | 192
26 May 2010 #384
Poland lies where she lies

yeah...
you won't know it but back in the 80s there was a very dry joke going that Poland is the ***** of others

so yeah, we lie where we lie
krakowiak
26 May 2010 #385
CENTRUM country! And I don't mean the Weimar Reich political party!
Ironside 50 | 10,939
26 May 2010 #386
I can't believe you see fit to dismiss this.

If Poland will not change and regain her own voice and role, due to internal forces, then views of foreigners are unimportant, anyway views of outsiders are only of secondary import if any...
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
26 May 2010 #387
Religiously = Western

Culturally = Western (when we think of the times when art and everything was coming from Italy and France? Also today fashion and food types don't come in a main stream from Russia...)

militarily = Western with eastern past

geographically = Central/Eastern (just a slightly bit of east when you consider Poland's historical borders)

politically in general it's = Polish ;)
krakowiak
26 May 2010 #388
Soul = eastern
pgtx 30 | 3,157
26 May 2010 #389
we could also suggest Poland is a north European country... it's north of Italy and Greece for example...

;)
A J 4 | 1,088
26 May 2010 #390
Excuse me, but are you another blonde person with brains? I thought I was the only one!

;)


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