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Poland is a Catholic country


Ironside 51 | 11,338
2 Jun 2013 #61
I'm Polish, I'm an atheist, and I have nothing against Catholics or the Catholic Church, as long as they don't impose their deity's laws on me.

What do you mean? Could you elaborate and explain your position to me?
Especially as about imposing deity' laws on you, and about taxes.
Also would you care to say what do you think about historical role of the RCC in Poland?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
2 Jun 2013 #62
Churches, charities, not-for-profit gorups, NGOs and others are regarded as public-benfit organisations and enjoy various forms of preferential treatment which may include tax-exempt status unlike commercial organisations.

Owsiak has the media in his pocket for his once-a-year- circus, but Caritas without fanfare aids those in need all year round. Should they pay the same taxes as Deutesche Bank, Biedronka or Tesco?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Jun 2013 #63
Yes.

For one simple reason : foundations are routinely abused in Poland for their tax-exempt status. A foundation should only benefit from such a status if they meet reasonable criteria, such as spending no more than 10% on administration costs.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
2 Jun 2013 #64
Sure, let's tax the Red Cross and Volunteer Fire Brigades out of existence. That's how they nabbed Al Capone.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Jun 2013 #65
Or let's judge them to an openly verifiable set of criteria that demands that administration costs come to no more than 10% of donations along with other things - such as making sure that they spend the majority of their donations every year on charitable causes.

I'm sure you're well aware that foundations throughout the world are becoming like businesses with managers on big salaries.
Rysavy 10 | 308
3 Jun 2013 #66
Sure, let's tax the Red Cross and Volunteer Fire Brigades out of existence

Don't forget the Salvation Army and the St Vincent De Paul and all the religious affiliated soup kitchens, food banks; most of which are even listed in the usda site for their impact. Oh and their aid to needy families in cash, gas, clothes, shelter

..let the govt handle it ALL. they get our taxes right? And they will need more taxes for sure...
they won't turn anyone away on subsets of criteria so convoluted you have to be a lawyer to use them or homeless.. right?

Though we may not know off the cuff why Constantine elected to exempt The Church. The US Govt counted on the charity of the practicing religious long before New Dealism interupted and spread to other countries yet still left many falling thru anyway.

And it still does. And it never meant to persecute the Church or ANY religion. Taxation is destruction
The US Supreme Court confirmed this in McCulloch v. Maryland (1819) when it stated: "the power to tax involves the power to destroy."

The US Supreme Court, in a majority opinion written by Chief Justice Warren E. Burger in Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York, decided May 4, 1970, stated: "The exemption creates only a minimal and remote involvement between church and state, and far less than taxation of churches. It restricts the fiscal relationship between church and state, and tends to complement and reinforce the desired separation insulating each from the other."

Of course the tax expempt gone also frees the chuch from the 1954 law against intervening in political campaigns. Since the law was passed only ONE singular church has ever had status revoked for politics.

It also pulls the exemption from Wiccan Churches or the Church of Satan/Allah and wotever, They get no minority right ..all or nothing baby.

US Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren E. Burger in his majority opinion in Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York (1970), "The grant of a tax exemption is not sponsorship, since the government does not transfer part of its revenue to churches, but simply abstains from demanding that the church support the state. No one has ever suggested that tax exemption has converted libraries, art galleries, or hospitals into arms of the state or put employees 'on the public payroll.' There is no genuine nexus between tax exemption and establishment of religion

Of course these relate to the US positions on churches...specially in a country that was founded by people of various backgrounds and finance who wanted religious freedom, not freedom from religion
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #67
" Don't forget the Salvation Army"
Do they spend more than 10% of their income on admin? When I worked with them they did not.
Kinell - | 6
3 Jun 2013 #68
Are Poles proud of the fact that it is a supposedly Catholic country? If so, why do so many people from Poland travel across Europe in a National express coach to get to the UK who's head of state is the protestant Queen of England?

Surely your first choice, now that you have been granted freedom of movement by Western Europeans should be Italy so that you can pay frequent homage to the new Pope (the last one having resigned due to the immeasurable amounts of paedophile priests and the massive cover ups at the Vatican). Money is your new God now and by God, you don't half demonstrate that by behaving in such an undignified fashion over the last few years.

Your supporter of the Catholic faith would get on his knees in front of the Queen of England if he or she were granted a few extra coppers in their purse.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
3 Jun 2013 #69
Ever see any of the Polish churches in the UK on a Sunday? They put the Anglicans to shame.
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #70
The head of the RCC in the UK has already spoken out against the damage that he and others think Poles do to the RCC there. Polish leaders promptly accused him of various things, including spiritual rape.
jon357 71 | 20,347
3 Jun 2013 #71
hurch of Satan

Doesn't claim any tax exemptions and never has.

Church of ../Allah

You do know that Xtians and Muslims have the same god?

Wiccan Churches

What's wrong with that?
pam
3 Jun 2013 #72
Ever see any of the Polish churches in the UK on a Sunday? They put the Anglicans to shame.

How would you know this Polonius? Have you moved to the UK recently?
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #73
I can say that polonius3 is correct, i ve have been moving couple of times in the uk and i can say that on sundays the polish masses are always packed full, i always buy gosc niedzielny as well :),

We hav some really great priests with a real call from the Holy Spirit to preaching.
God Bless them!

Cheers
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #74
I can say that polonius3 is correct, i ve have been moving couple of times in the uk and i can say that on sundays the polish masses are always packed full,

Interesting you both claim that. According to the the rector of the Polish RCC's mission to the UK (114 priests in 219 pastoral centres throughout England and Wales), Poles in the UK are unlikely to go to church regularly. According to him only eight percent of Polish migrants regularly attend mass regularly in Britain. I wonder why Poles so quickly lose their faith when they move to the UK.

How would you know this Polonius? Have you moved to the UK recently?

Perhaps he's omniscient? Or perhaps he just thinks he is.
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #75
Because we poles are idiots... I know offensive and all but it is unfortunately the truth...
Indians and pakistanis stay in their groups celebrate their traditons, speak loudly and without shame in their languagws etc...
Poles? Rarely live in groups feel ashamed of their national heritage etc... Maybe i am just an 18 year old kid, but i think that i am correct, even my mates after a year living in the uk they stop going to churches, listen to trashy british pop start wring piercings, caps, why?

Why would a person from a country of such beautiful histiry and Catholic tradition qould want throw it all out for a smile from a foreigner, for acceptance you will say.

They will never accept us here always will be giving us smiles and friendly taps on shoulders but behind our backs they will be saying all their racist rants, its nothing new.

It is nkt our country or history although i respect it i understand that what is hidden in an english will always stay hidden from me and vice versa.

One should never forget where his fatherland is. NEVER.

Cheers
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #76
They will never accept us here always will be giving us smiles and friendly taps on shoulders but behind our backs they will be saying all their racist rants,

Always good to see somebody complaining about racism whilst at the same time being racist themselves.
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #77
Could u point out how am i being racist? This is the truth, if you dont see it then u have to blind
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #78
Could u point out how am i being racist?

Look at your comments about the English.
jkb - | 198
3 Jun 2013 #79
Especially as about imposing deity' laws on you, and about taxes.

Of course:

- The church has income from private persons. Income that's being used to buy, for instance, luxurious limos that our church leaders drive. This income should be taxed.

- The church gets money from the government. Example: the government pays for teaching religion in polish schools. (over 1 billion PLNs for teaching fairy tales!). Church fund; hospital, military, police, etc. chaplains. It all adds up. The fact that my tax money goes there disgust me.

- The church gets tax breaks and favorable prices. Example: buying land for 1% of its retail value. The remaining 99% is loss to the budget.
- The church lobbies for laws restricting or banning abortion, gay marriage (or civil union), in-vitro fertilization.

Also would you care to say what do you think about historical role of the RCC in Poland?

Invaluable. But People's Republic of Poland is long gone now. We're a western, modern country. People do not need any organized entity, be it a party or a church, to have a leading role in their lives, enforced by law.

Churches, charities, not-for-profit gorups, NGOs and others are regarded as public-benfit organisations and enjoy various forms of preferential treatment which may include tax-exempt status unlike commercial organisations.

Doesn't matter if the charity is christian (like the Red Cross) or atheist (like WOŚP), as long as it provides charity in a transparent, non-for-profit way. I fail to see how is any church a public benefit organization. I also fail to see why should everyone finance RCC with their tax money. If you're a believer - pay up for your church's support. If not, you shouldn't be forced to do so.

Owsiak has the media in his pocket for his once-a-year- circus, but Caritas without fanfare aids those in need all year round. Should they pay the same taxes as Deutesche Bank, Biedronka or Tesco?

How often do you see Owsiak on TV? How often do you see representatives of RCC on TV? Are you certain about your statement? Caritas prove to be very non-transparent in the past (see the 2010 embezzlement). I am yet to see fraud in WOŚP, as their money handling is very transparent. That being said, any NGO that provides charity as a non-for-profit organization, should have tax breaks. Also keep in mind that I clearly want to distinguish Caritas, which is a charitable organization run by RCC, and the RCC itself, which should not be tax free under any circumstances.

Are Poles proud of the fact that it is a supposedly Catholic country? If so, why do so many people from Poland travel across Europe in a National express coach to get to the UK who's head of state is the protestant Queen of England?

That's quite simple. The UK was among the first countries that allowed Poles to live and work there, immediately, in May 2004. English is a language being universally taught in Polish schools. UK residents enjoy better salaries, benefits and freedoms than Polish residents. Probably hardly anyone gave two ***** about UK's head of state's religious views at that time.
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #80
And shes not protestant but anglican... Shes a head of hurch of england.. Lol such an ignorant :3
jon357 71 | 20,347
3 Jun 2013 #81
She is Protestant and Anglican. The English monarch must (under current law) be Protestant. She is also Presbyterian when in Scotland.
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #82
Lol when did that law came in power yhen? Thats weidd they ev never mention anything like that in the news or anything... Does that mean she is a believer of 3 different faiths... Is that even possible Oo
jon357 71 | 20,347
3 Jun 2013 #83
Lol when did that law came in power yhen?

1701

Thats weidd they ev never mention anything like that in the news or anything..

Maybe Queen Anne forgot to Tweet it.

Does that mean she is a believer of 3 different faiths... Is that even possible Oo

Only one. Protestantism. In England, Anglican; in Scotland, Presbyterian.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
3 Jun 2013 #84
Eye-witness reports, interviews, media including UK ones are all impressed by Polish churchgoers. Have you really not been privy to such news?
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #85
So in other words, you've seen nothing yourself. Perhaps that's why you failed to learn that only 8% of Polish migrants in the UK go to church regularly. I wonder why you have failed to address that tiny point.

As for being impressed by Polish churchgoers, it seems that more than a few people in the British RCC, including the leader of the British RCC, are distinctly unimpressed.
goofy_the_dog
3 Jun 2013 #86
You cannot force people to go to chrch... It is their own soul thats at stake... Allf the rest of ur statement has been answered by me in that long post on this page.
Varsovian 92 | 634
3 Jun 2013 #87
11% of UK parents who stay unmarried will still be together when the child is 16.
Bravo religion-haters ... you cost us all a fortune in related social costs, you dorks!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
3 Jun 2013 #88
Is that all UK-ers, not just migrant Poles? Are the stats further broken down into England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster?
Harry
3 Jun 2013 #89
Is that all UK-ers, not just migrant Poles?

I'll say it again, only 8% of Polish migrants in the UK go to church regularly.

Are the stats further broken down into England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster?

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6520463.stm
Northern Ireland: 45%
Scotland: 18%
England: 14%
Wales: 12%

This shows that in all the countries of the United Kingdom, the general population at least 50% more likely to go to church regularly than Poles in the UK are.

Poland might be a Catholic country but it seems that Poles aren't so Catholic when they get out of Poland.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
3 Jun 2013 #90
Varsovian
Missed the boat again! This was not about church-going but about UK-ers shacking up and staying together until their out-of-wedlock progeny reached 16. The question was how this shapes up in individual UK countries.


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