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Blue eyes of Gavrilo Princip for the independance of Poland. Was it worth?



mmmm    
30 Apr 2015  #31

Lol, I accidentaly came here and I can't believe what you guys are saying.
First of all, term ,,,terrorist'' desribes person who is fighting against a legal government. Austro-Hungarian government in Balkan was everything but legal. They were mistreating people here and taking away every civil right from them. They were a dictators and I would compare these guys with Hitler. Gavrilo was ready to dye for his country and it's a really questionable what would be happening if he didn't kill Ferdinand.

However, Austrians were just waiting for the least incident to start the war. Conditions in the country already were a similar to the war conditions.

And it doesn't matter who was a Gavrilo's victim, he did what he had to do. He had to kill Ferdinand and his wife was close to him. Loss of Ferdinand's wife was nothing when we compare a Serbian losses.

In short - Gavrilo Princip was a fighter for freedom, fighter against occupiers. I hope God will forgive him for a murders which he had to do and intention to kill himself after that.

Btw, I can't believe that you guys are posting such a negative things against Serbs. Starting with Gavrilo Princip, you are accusing him for killing Ferdinand's woman? Wtf. Talking about the other crimes, yes they existed. And I see that you are talking about Foca crimes. You know, not everyone is perfect in the army. All war criminals from Serbia were accused and they are sitting in the jail atm. Serbs were making a crimes during the war, but not just them. Everyone were doing it and just Serbian people are in jail for it.

90's war : Ante Gotovina and Croatians, Haradinaj and Kosovo Albanians(war criminals from UCK are even sitting in ,,the Kosovo governement'' atm, chatting with Obama and fellas), Bosnian mujahedeen, etc. ; none of them is in jail.

WW1 and 2 - Serbian losses were huge, almost 2 milion people got killed. Ante Pavelic killed smt like more than 1 milion Serbs, Jews and others,, in overall. And still, nobody from his army wasn't punished. Croatians are even denying war crimes and existance of Jasenovac camp.


Harry 70 | 13,026    
30 Apr 2015  #32

Starting with Gavrilo Princip, you are accusing him for killing Ferdinand's woman? Wtf.

Let me guess, you want us to believe that she shot herself, right?
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
30 Apr 2015  #33

Thanks for the comment mmmm

Problem is, or rather truth is, crimes on Serbs are desirable by the west of Europe. Genocide on Serbs is legal. That is why are crimes on Serbs allowed and then denied. On the other side, when anybody impose war on Serbs, while Serbs defend themselves, eventual Serbian crimes are regularly reported and presented in mass media with exaggeration. Or, if there is no Serbian crimes, they are invented.

i sow today in news that Czech president Zeman again underlined how is Kosovo mafia state, how is led by real terrorists and criminals and how is great injustice done to Serbs, how Czechs must support Serbs because they are in debt to them. i truly admire to Czechs for their loyalty to truth. Great people. Before Zeman, Czech president Klaus defended Serbs with same passion. Noble Polish president Lech Kaczinsky, God gave Him peace, defended Serbs, too.

Czech president refers to Thaci as "war criminal"

April 30, 2015 | 09:34 / b92
b92.net/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2015&mm=04&dd=30&nav_id=93961

BELGRADE -- Czech President Milos Zeman says that he personally does not recognize Kosovo as independent and therefore is not sending an ambassador to Pristina.

Tanjug quoted the Vecernje Novosti article, to be published on Friday, as stating that Zeman said Serbs supported Czechs "in 1934 and in 1944" after the Soviet aggression.

"We are in your debt and we need to repay our debt. Friendship is one of the best ways to do this," said the Czech president.

Did you know people that first alliance between Czech and Serbian ancestors happened when Sarmatian Boii and Skoridsci formed anti-Roman tribal alliance?

Serbians (Balkan and Lusatian Serbs/Sorbs) are last Sarmats who still using local forms of original Sarmatian name as their ethnic name, once universal name of all Slavs. You can bet, it is one of reasons (one of few) for Serbs are doomed, for they are hunted. They have to extinct so that truth dies with them. So that fabricators of history can finish their sinister masterwork. But, Sarmats shall prevail and burn flame of resistance, once again
mmmm    
6 May 2015  #34

Good to see that someone is thinking on a good way, someone who isn't listening western propaganda. :)

About Harry's post, it would be the best if there is a world peace and that Gavrilo didn't have any reason to kill anybody. But victim of Ferdinand's wife is nothing if we compare Serbian victims in the war against Austria and before that war and it's funny how you are even mentioning her.

So I don't know, if murdering of 1 000 000 Serbs from Croatians and much more from Turkeys, Germans, Albanians etc., bombing country with depleted uranium in 1999. and diseasing much, much more people cancer due that(Serbia is the first people in Europe if we are looking number of deaths due the cancer, for more information take a look at documentary Deadly Dust (Todesstaub) ) .. If this isn't a crime(that's what Europan and world leaders are saying and what they want everyone else to think), than murdering 1 dictator and dictator's woman also ain't a crime.

A lot of worse crimes were made by other countries from Balkan, from Turkey, from Germany and Austria, from Spain, from America and Britain and nobody was punished... But they need some countries to be a bad guys in the public eyes, and Serbia is one of them.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
5 Jul 2015  #35

Gavrilo Princip, `rebel angel` - as Nobel Prize winner Ivo Andric called him

Monument to rebel Slavic and Serbian patriot Gavrilo Princip erected in Belgrade, in the presence of presidents of Serbia (Tomislav Nikolic) and Serb Republic within Bosnia and Herzegovina- RS (Milorad Dodik)

few quotations from the article

Monument to Gavrilo Princip unveiled in Belgrade

Tanjug Monday, June 29, 2015 | 11:59
b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2015&mm=06&dd=29&nav_id=94588

Gavrilo

"Gavrilo Princip was a hero, a symbol of the idea of freedom, the assassin of tyrants and the carrier of the European idea of liberation from slavery," Nikolic said at the ceremony.

As far as Germany and Austria-Hungary were concerned, World War I was imminent even without the assassination, he said, and added that "then, as well as now, as always, Serbia opposed the war. We deserved and received the halo of the righteous victors during and immediately after both world wars."

"Serbia is expressing its stance on the 'rebelled angels' - as Nobel Prize winner Ivo Andric called them - here and now, with the monument to Princip, that has been awaited for more than a century," the president said.

delphiandomine 61 | 15,334    
5 Jul 2015  #36

Crowie, can you help me?

I tried to find the monument to Princip in Istoèno Sarajevo last summer, but couldn't find it. Can you have a look online and see if you can find the address, please? :)
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
5 Jul 2015  #37

delphe, listen.

Just come to eastern (Serbian) Sarajevo municipality and ask for Gavrilo Princip`s city park. Best is to ask some taxi driver or policeman to give you direction.

Gavrilo

Gavrilo`s monument in eastern Sarajevo city park; monument that was erected in Belgrade represent copy of this one from Sarajevo

Polish article about Gavrilo Princip and recently built monument to Gavrilo in Bosnia, in Serbian enclave

Gavrilo Princip: bohater czy terrorysta?

histmag.org/Gavrilo-Princip-bohater-czy-terrorysta-9673

Tuż przed setną rocznicą zamachu na arcyksięcia Franciszka Ferdynanda we Wschodnim Sarajewie odsłonięto pomnik Gavrilo Principa, serbskiego radykała pochodzącego z Bośni. Przez wielu uważany za terrorystę, który wywołał konflikt w Europie, wśród bośniackich Serbów wciąż cieszy się estymą wybawiciela spod habsburskiej okupacji.

jon357 60 | 11,455    
1 Oct 2016  #38

Gavrilo Princip: bohater czy terrorysta?

Murderous terrorist.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
1 Oct 2016  #39

Bohater. Without Gavrilo and Serbian people today`s Poland most probably wouldn`t exist as state. Without Serbian struggle for independence (from Austria and from Ottomans) i hardly can imagine circumstances which could led to independence of Poland. Those were Serbians who literally pushed Poland out of western European sphere and certain assimilation of Poles there and, the same time, prevented Russian domination over the Poles. Those were Serbians who gave hope. Druids that summoned Sarmatian Dragon that breathed new life into deadly sleeping Poland, which then raised Her noble head.

Moment when Gavrilo- a Sarmatian Dragon awakened Poland

sd
mafketis 16 | 4,063    
2 Oct 2016  #40

Without Gavrilo and Serbian people

Without him WWI might not have happened and millions of people wouldn't have been killed. In England, the sex ratio of killing (millions of young men, almost no young women) meant that a generation of English women had to support themselves in the workplace. This explosion into the workplace by women with no chance of marrying (thanks to Gavrilo) has often been credited with leading to the feminist movement.

So what you're saying is that modern feminism is thanks to Serbia?!??!
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
2 Oct 2016  #41

Blaming Serbs for WWI is fabrication of history. i would only quote comment of the Serbian president here, from the above article:

As far as Germany and Austria-Hungary were concerned, World War I was imminent even without the assassination, he said, and added that "then, as well as now, as always, Serbia opposed the war. We deserved and received the halo of the righteous victors during and immediately after both world wars."

Also, this quote of Serbian president:

"Gavrilo Princip was a hero, a symbol of the idea of freedom, the assassin of tyrants and the carrier of the European idea of liberation from slavery," Nikolic said at the ceremony.

Source: b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2015&mm=06&dd=29&nav_id=94588

When we are at reasons for WWI and WWII, it would be worth to mention how Anglo bankers profited from the conflicts, while biggest biological and material losses suffered Slavs. Seams that even Germanics were manipulated in great Anglo schemes and their hate on Slavs used for the profits of Anglos who are higher then Germanics in the ``food`` chain.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
15 May 2017  #42

What I want to ask here is- did Poland ever erected monument to Gavrilo? Remember, no real independence of Poland without monument to this Serbian student, this young man, revolutionary that announced freedom of Slavs and triggered events that led to independence of Poland. We can say that monument to Gavrilo in Poland represent measure of Poland`s real independence and balanced Poland`s stance on processes within Poland, as well as balanced Poland`s position within Slavic world, in Europe and in world.

gp

Gavrilo Princip, photo just after assassination and his arrest
Bristols 1 | 17    
15 May 2017  #43

Does Gawrilo Princip sniff petrol ?
Harry 70 | 13,026    
15 May 2017  #44

did Poland ever erected monument to Gavrilo?

Poles tend not to like men who murder women. As I've said before, a statue of Gavrilo Princip would be as welcome in Poland as a statue of the Serbian paedophiles from Foca who raped children as young as 12.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
15 May 2017  #45

Its just so ugly when Anglos patronize Poles and telling them what is good for Poland, plus, spread confusion and fabricated propaganda in the process.
Bristols 1 | 17    
15 May 2017  #46

My heart is pumping ****
Atch 8 | 1,423    
15 May 2017  #47

Crow, you can't be serious. Princip's actions precipitated the First World War and quite apart from the loss of life sustained by those countries whom you despise, your own country, Serbia suffered terribly as you well know. In fact the highest rate of civilian casualties of the war was sustained by Serbia. By the way are you aware of the Scottish hospitals established in Serbia during the war?

bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-35039265

I suppose the fact the Serbia has honoured those Scottish women who founded the hospitals by issuing stamps with their images, whilst at the same time errecting a statue of Princip is something to scratch the head about.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
15 May 2017  #48

Please, refrain yourself from western European and then generally Anglo propaganda in interpretation of history. Neither Gavrilo, neither Serbia caused WWI. Telling that Serbs started war isn`t just distortion but even vulgarization of truth. Serbians were one among many ethoses in A-H that rebelled and resisted to Hapsburg rule (prior to Gavrilo`s assassination of Ferdinand, happened attempt of assassination on one Hapsburg in Italy). We can only conclude that from all opposition to Hapsburg`s Serbian opposition was most serious and that with the reasons- considering that humiliation of Serbs was Hapsburg imperative. So, Hapsburg`s got it back in their face. But, it has nothing with reasons for global world conflict. World war was imminent due to antagonisms between world powers.
Atch 8 | 1,423    
15 May 2017  #49

Neither Gavrilo, neither Serbia caused WWI.

I didn't maintain that he did. Even back in the dark ages when I was at school we knew that. In my secondary school we learned about the many things which led up to WWI and how the actions of Gavrilo Princip merely served as a catalyst to precipitate the conflict which would have come about in any case. But the fact is that his actions were used as an excuse to justify the subsequent conflict which cost around 15 million lives. If you want to errect a statue of him in your own country representing him as a freedom fighter then fair enough, it's your country and you can do what you like, according to what he means to Serbia. But outside of Serbia it would be seen as highly insensitive.

Here's a nice piece about Princip from the English press and as you can see, he's not depicted as a monster. In fact the author seems to have much sympathy for him so stop all that nonsense about Anglo propaganda:

telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10930829/The-lie-that-started-the-First-World-War.html
Ziemowit 8 | 2,304    
15 May 2017  #50

World war was imminent due to antagonisms between world powers.

This is the key point. But many in Western Europe may be convinced nevertheless that Princip was the principal cause of the WWI. Anyway, Harry of the PF seems to be representative for those and I remember I once quoted for him an excerpt from an article of a British historian saying exactly the same what Crow said and Harry almost ridiculed that as nonsense.

But this means that some people still like to believe it if renowned historians even bother to say they are wrong. (This could be what Crow calls "Anglo propaganda" then and can be attributed to the wish for placing someone's fault for the many victims of that conflict in Serbia rather than in "more civilised" countries.)

the actions of Gavrilo Princip merely served as a catalyst to precipitate the conflict which would have come about in any case.

This is my view as well. The Austria-Hungary was the thing of the past in 1914 already and many would consider the existence of such a country a miracle even before that year. In Poland the deed of Gavrilo Princip is well known, though no one tends to blame him for the outbraek of the war. His name would not be even known to many here and the whole event would be better known as "zabójstwo arcyksięcia Ferdynanda w Sarajewie". On the other hand, hardly anyone would attribute the gift of an independent Poland to his deed. It is argued that the emergence of Poland in the result of the WWI was achieved thanks to the proper assumptions of Marshal Piłsudski that first Russia would be defeated by the central states (Germany and A-H), those to be defeated in the next phase by the Western powers (England and France). He acted accordingly to these assumptions of his and "suddenly" an independent Poland emerged from the chaos of the First World War or as the popular saying of the time went on: ni z tego, ni z owego, a tu Polska na pierwszego!. Rather amazing, wasn't it?
jon357 60 | 11,455    
15 May 2017  #51

Princip was a footnote in history and the murder of Ferdinand and his wife a pretext.

Nevertheless, Princip was a terrorist. Nothing more, nothing less.
mafketis 16 | 4,063    
15 May 2017  #52

For once.... we agree! Let's cherish this moment, shall we?
TheOther 5 | 2,930    
15 May 2017  #53

those to be defeated in the next phase by the Western powers (England and France)

Marshal Piłsudski would've miscalculated the outcome big time if the Americans hadn't joined the war in 1917.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
15 May 2017  #54

How delusional thinking. Truly a shame to say that USA defeated Central Powers. Its even insulting. USA entered WWI at the last quarter of conflict. Slavs won that war, at a terrible price.
TheOther 5 | 2,930    
15 May 2017  #55

Truly a shame to say that USA defeated Central Powers

Britain, France and Germany were pretty much at a stalemate in 1917 and were simply killing each other off in the trenches. The USA entered the war very late, true, but they certainly tipped it in favor of the Entente.

Slavs won that war

Especially the Russians, right? LOL!
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
15 May 2017  #56

Serbians. Then, Russians.

Even officially, first Entente victory over Central powers in WWI was Cer battle in 1914 (Serbia vs A-H). Later, in 1918, at Thessaloniki front, Serbians played major role and pursued Austrians all the way to Vienna, what effectively ended A-H and prepared ground for Entente victory.
TheOther 5 | 2,930    
15 May 2017  #57

Serbians. Then, Russians.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role, but the country certainly didn't win the war. Russia? Not so much either. Does the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ring a bell?
Crnogorac3 2 | 222    
15 May 2017  #58

youtube.com/watch?v=fDhN3m3omvg

Major Dragutin Gavrilovic speech during the defence of Belgrade:

''Soldiers, exactly at three o'clock, the enemy is to be crushed by your fierce charge, destroyed by your grenades and bayonets. The honor of Belgrade, our capital, must not be stained. Soldiers! Heroes! The supreme command has erased our regiment from its records. Our regiment has been sacrificed for the honor of Belgrade and the Fatherland. Therefore, you no longer need to worry about your lives: they no longer exist. So, forward to glory! For the King and the Fatherland! Long live the King, Long live Belgrade!''

youtube.com/watch?v=mbmxn11u19Y

During WWI the whole world was amazed by the bravery of Serbian soldiers who were dying for freedom.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
16 May 2017  #59

This quote of major Gavrilovic entered Japanese military encyclopedia as example that Japanese kind fanaticism exist in Europe, too.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role, but the country certainly didn't win the war.

What is victory for you? What motivates victory? Freedom or business? If business, then USA won. If freedom, then Serbia won and, that Serbian victory announced freedom for all Slavs.

Russia? Not so much either. Does the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ring a bell?

Russia? Russia made possible Serbian victory. Then, Russia crumbled, weakened, due to intrigues and schemes that installed communism there.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role

Serbia lost 1/3 of its population. If we lost that war, we would be slaughtered in massive genocide, unseen since times of Roman Empire. So, only option was to win.

Britain, France and Germany were pretty much at a stalemate in 1917

Yes. And USA entered war to save western Europe from mutual onslaught that was consequence of struggles between magnates, which actually, side by side with US magnates, even started WWI, then later WWII.
OP Crow 133 | 5,511    
16 May 2017  #60

Is it true that the Serbian flag is the only flag besides American to be flown over the White House; something apparently done on July 28th, 1918 on President Wilson's order to commemorate Serbia's role in WWI?

reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2c130o/is_it_true_that_the_serbian_flag_is_the_only_flag/

When Serbian flag flew above the White House

dijaspora.gov.rs/en/serbian-flag-flew-white-house/

On July 28th 1918, the 4th anniversary of the beginning of World War I, Serbian flag flew above the White House and all public buildings in American capital by the order of President Woodrow Wilson.

Also, in a same 1918 year, Serbia and Poland shared the day at the Altar of Liberty in Madison Square. The flag of Serbia was raised on the altar at noon and the celebration for Poland took place in the afternoon.




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