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Poland must get back Lwow, Wilno and Brest back


dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
6 Jul 2020 #151
And if don't have to give back would pay with teritories.

Crow we are talking about the EU, they are a bunch of pussies, we just say no that is that.
Crow 139 | 8,169
6 Jul 2020 #152
@dolnoslask

Brate, the EU would evolve only in bigger and more powerfull evil. For your info, visegrad and balkans, meaning Polands and Serbias domains hold more then half natural energy/resources reserves of Europe. What you think what happening THEY become aware THEY losing control for good? And USA moving out of Europe. Yes, we would be on our own and little bit Russia, if we are lucky.

Why do you think Duda work with Russia in arming Serbia. I can tell you, frantically work on it because I see what coming to us from Russia via Poland and Hungary.

Things would go ugly
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
6 Jul 2020 #153
I see what coming to us from Russia

Only bad things will come from Russia Brate, Serbia and Poland are brothers, we have no need of Russia .....
Crow 139 | 8,169
6 Jul 2020 #154
Be realistic. You see what happening. Poland isnt able to directly and alone support Serbia. How could Poland when Rome and western Europe threat Poland's vital interests. That is why Serbs finishing things. But not alone, of course. And, when the moment come, not without Poland. Dont think you would avoid party
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
6 Jul 2020 #155
It's always important to party with the right people and that aint Ruskies.

It was Ruskies that created the problem that is the title of this thread.
Crow 139 | 8,169
6 Jul 2020 #156
No, they arent perfect. But look to the west. Drang Nach Osten always came from the west.

So why not cooperate with Russia when interests owerlap.

As for Lwow, never mind who created problem. We Serbs were with you when you Poles created part of that problem. Or solution. In any case that cow would go to Poland.
pawian 171 | 12,080
6 Jul 2020 #157
When they steal a cow from you, it is a bad act. But when you steal their cow, it is a good deed.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
6 Jul 2020 #158
So why not cooperate with Russia

Because they starved as young children my uncles and aunties that I never had the chance to meet, in their camps in Siberia , that's why.
Crow 139 | 8,169
6 Jul 2020 #159
when you steal their cow, it is a good deed.

Not just good. When Poles and Serbs doing it togather it is always for higher good.

Sarmatia must be happy and satisfied. Its just natural order of things.

Because they starved

That? Its pain. I can imagine. Believe me I can. But you must find balance. You must try not to generalize. Our personal pain of the moment isnt all of it. God help us all

But see, children againg cooperate. What else can they do.
Vlad1234 16 | 676
6 Jul 2020 #160
Poland gets a great workforce the Ukraine economy will be raised to at least that of Poland

I tend to believe in that to a large extent. Most important thing for Ukraine is a proper govt. I can imagine something like Austro-Hungary in which Austria played the leader role.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
7 Jul 2020 #161
Not extremally long time by historical measures.

yeah if you are talking about fossils for human being it is a really long time.

For example Jerusalem.

Appels and oranges.
Anyway we are not talking about Kiev, nobody wants that city. In fact none claims area 100 km around it.
I'm saying that demographical structure is not that important when it comes to territory and borders.
Example Wilno, Polish majority in and around it. Nobody claims it as it was a historical capital of Lithuania.
Mr Grunwald 22 | 1,641
7 Jul 2020 #162
@theclasscall
1. It's not up to the Russian Federation to cut up states in Europe, wether they border that Federation or not. Especially as it tries to uphold the legacy and continuation of the Soviet Union. It made a compromise with the populations in former eastern bloc states. Failing to uphold those compromises will only lead it down a bad spiral with it's relations with any state in Europe, not to mention the population in lands potentially seized by the Russian Federation.

2. Poland has no benefit except for raw taxes by invading/annexing Ukraine/Belarus, as the destabilization of Poland as a state would decrease it's too high a price to pay for any reasons to regain Brest/Lviv

3. Also it would be a far bigger smack in the face to the ex-commies&Stalin&power hungry people if the populations of Belarus/Ukraine/Lithuania voulentarily joined Poland in one form or another. Currently people are being captivated and lured in by being able to increase their economical situation by working in Poland, which works well both ways so far. For it work better, one has to adress any issues that can increase tensions or fuel extremists movements in both countries tho. While in case of Belarus, cultural exchange is more important and share experiences Poland has in the years 1980-2005
Vlad1234 16 | 676
7 Jul 2020 #163
it would be a far bigger smack in the face to the ex-commies&Stalin&power hungry people

if the populations of Belarus/Ukraine/Lithuania voulentarily joined Poland in one form or another.

I'm not so sure in it. Why? The vast majority of Russians aren't going to protest against it, and neither Kremlin, possibly.
Mr Grunwald 22 | 1,641
7 Jul 2020 #164
I don't know about Kremlin, but I was mostly thinking about burrying the hatchet and not Russians per say. There are a lot of grievences towards how things were done by communist authorities (family losses, property losses, jobs lost (meaningful jobs that were switched with meaningless too))

Russians only need to see how their history has been the last 100 years, being pulled in power struggles in Europe by other European states, most noteably Germany of course, but also U.K and France.

So Kremlin, fearing another setup by NATO (Poland is still in it after all) would be sceptical of any trends strengthening a NATO member (Poland in this case) unless the Kremlin would feel safer and secure about Poland as a state being able to counter-balance German influences within NATO/EU. But as the situation is now, Poland-Russia relations aren't good enough for that to happen yet. The elites in Poland aren't being taken serriously by the Kremlin (why would they? They got bigger fish to fry afterall) and Polish elites especially old solidarity connections are so sceptical towards anything about Soviet Union/Russia related that they are bordering on paranoia and splitting up Polish society cause of it
Vlad1234 16 | 676
7 Jul 2020 #165
Why Poland and Ukraine suppose to care about someone else mind? They are independent countries and can do what they whish within moral norms. Their combined population is around 80 mln. and joint army would be one of the largest in Europe.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #166
There we have the beginning of what was / should have been.
Mr Grunwald 22 | 1,641
7 Jul 2020 #167
Vlad1234- Cause one can't simply ignore another state with nuclear capabilities nor ignore other states banding together against one self and those one is allied with. One shouldn't accept abuse of power, but one needs to balance out the risks aswell.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #168
Cause one can't simply ignore another state with nuclear capabilities

Why not , the ruskie nuke on Polska would ignite the world, a weapon dropped on Poland would create fallout that would blow back to Russia.

Putler simply aint got the balls .
Mr Grunwald 22 | 1,641
7 Jul 2020 #169
@dolnoslask
You really would risk putting Poland as a target like that?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #170
No because if Poland is hit as a first strike Nato and the USA will strike back , free Poland has always lived on the edge of genocide , nothing new here.
Vlad1234 16 | 676
7 Jul 2020 #171
Vlad1234- Cause one can't simply ignore another state with nuclear capabilities

I think Russia already accepted and accustomed to the fact that Ukraine is independent and not pro-Russian. And I would be wondered to discover they have hopes it will change anytime soon. I cannot imagine Russia have hopes to install a pro-Russian president in Ukraine in the nearest decades. Western part of Ukraine will not accept it and neither Central Ukraine likely. It will mean a citizenship war. I think Russian politicians realize Ukraine is destined to gravitate toward West much stronger than toward Russia because the West is richer and more developed and therefore more seductive. Russia in its current form cannot offer a perspectives for Ukrainian development because it doesn't develop itself. But I agree that potential reaction of Russia on the subject has to be evaluated and the entire deal could be sweetened for Russia somehow. For example a guaranties could be provided that Ukraine will not host any foreign military bases and some economic agreements proposed which wouldn't exclude Russia.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #172
Ukraine will not host any foreign military bases and some economic agreements

No need to kiss Russian ass , they can pay not to have US / Nato bases in the Ukraine.
call1n 2 | 136
7 Jul 2020 #173
I think Poland should get together with Lithuania and be the center of European civilization.
Vlad1234 16 | 676
7 Jul 2020 #174
I don't understand why Russia always suppose to have some antagonistic relations with NATO/West countries. Communist Russia long gone, so why all countries on European continent just cannot find some common language?

I think Poland should

Yes, union with such a mammoth as Lithuania will certainly outweight the rest of Europe...
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #175
Communist Russia long gone,

Ha Ha Ha pull the other leg , communism is alive and well under Putin, same **** they just got rid of the red flag.
mafketis 23 | 8,543
7 Jul 2020 #176
communism is alive and well under Putin

Not exactly, it's the old Russian system

Big Man at the top: tsar, first secretary, Putin...

corrupt cronies: members of the court, party insiders, oligarchs

unwashed masses: serfs, soviet "citizens", everyday Russians

Very stable the same structure (rotten to the core) with different labels...
dolnoslask 5 | 2,878
7 Jul 2020 #177
That's communism corrupt leadership in control of everything , haha , putin will soon pass a law to say he is still in charge once dead and full of embalming fluid like stalin.
mafketis 23 | 8,543
7 Jul 2020 #178
communism corrupt leadership in control of everything

It's the same system as the Tsar - also a totally corrupt system, communism changed _nothing_ in Russia beyond the labels people on the surface.
Vlad1234 16 | 676
7 Jul 2020 #179
Very stable the same structure (rotten to the core) with different labels...

So, why does it mean that Russia suppose to exist in constant antagonism with NATO and start war in the case Poland and Ukraine form a confederacy under Polish leadership?
mafketis 23 | 8,543
7 Jul 2020 #180
Why don't we discuss unicorns and magic fairy princesses.... they're far more realistic.


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