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Poland and Polish Anti-Semitism, c. 1918-1939


rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #61
All I can say is "RESPECT". What a read! This is the stuff my parents and grandparents used to tell us kids. Namely, that the Jews didn't want to live, work and play with the Poles. They rejected the Poles. They were right. I fell into the trance. Here in the States a Pol-Am doesn't stand a chance against the incessant drone of inculcation : "Poles are anti-semites......Poles are anti-semites.....Poles are anti-semites"

Thank you Grubas
p3undone 8 | 1,135
27 Jun 2012 #62
Rybnik,what do you mean by you fell into the trance?
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #63
like being mesmerized. you know, focusing on something repetetive like a watch or swirly lines moving round and round, etc. enough of that and you fall into a trance. My trance was "Poles are anti-semites.......Poles are anti-semites..........etc" because I used to hear it over and over and over again (and still do!). There was never ever an opposing view broadcast as loudly and as incessantly and as doggedly as the pro-Jewish one. After years of being told that your people are "Jew-haters" and "Jew-persecutors" I began to believe it thereby falling into the trance.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
27 Jun 2012 #64
Rybnik,that was what I thought you meant.a little surprised though,but I understand how that can happen.At least you came out of the trance

some don't. :(
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #65
At least you came out of the trance

It feels good.
Off topic:
I had a very pleasant encounter with a young Jewess lawyer last name Weiss. She told me her father would regail her with stories of his childhood in £ódz. She has plans on visiting someday. It was nice to hear something positive for a change.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #66
Nickidewbear: I cannot tell you how emphatically and angrily my granddad denies being a Jew and claims to be a Polish Lithuanian who is related to the infamous Anti Semite Stefan Czarniecki

What proof (i.e. hard facts) do you have to support the claim that your family were ever Jewish? Just curious. Czarnecki is a typical Polish surname, so you can't go by that.

First, I'm a Messianic Jew. Second, to yehudi, I'm not here to proselytize; so knock off the Antimissionarism--I'm not forcing you or anyone else to believe in Jeszua. Thirdly, Ashkenazim were the first Anusim--look it up on Wikipedia. Fourthly, back to Magdalena, I've done my homework and have even made several references to it on various threads here. Fifthly, darn right that I'm Protestant, Grzegorz; and I'm not a redneck looking to cause Armaggedon--but I am a "fundamentalist". By the way, quite a few of my Polish-Jewish relatives became Protestants here in America.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #67
This is morphing into a great thread.
I just learned what a Messianic Jew is
shema.com/messianic_judaism.php

Thank you Nikki!
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #68
One famous Polish Messianic Jew was Edith Stein.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Stein

One does not have to practice Jewish ritual and ceremonial rites to be a Messianic Jew.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
27 Jun 2012 #69
Nickidewbear and Rybnik,I think as long as we speak about Poles and Jews in relation to each,we should be ok for the most part,As long as it

doesn't end up to be a different type of discussion all together or turn nasty.I'm willing to chance it.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #70
I understand. Anyway, though, Edith Stein was a Polish Messianic Jew, born in Wrocław.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #71
Edith Stein was a Polish Messianic Jew, born in Wrocław

no kidding - that's my town!

Nickidewbear and Rybnik,I think as long as we speak about Poles and Jews in relation to each,we should be ok for the most part,As long as itdoesn't end up to be a different type of discussion all together or turn nasty.I'm willing to chance it.

I really dig your style p3. Letting us know what you're thinking is good for the Forum.

Edith Stein was a Polish Messianic Jew, born in Wrocław.

she was a German Jew born in Breslau. (I know. I'm splitting hairs)
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #72
Nickidewbear: Edith Stein was a Polish Messianic Jew, born in Wrocław.
she was a German Jew born in Breslau. (I know. I'm splitting hairs)

But Breslau is still Wrocław.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #74
It was Polish in nature, though. See Wikipedia.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #75
It was Polish in nature, though

but SHE wasn't
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #76
She was still a Polish national and an Ashkenazic Jew.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #77
A Jew she was. We'll get binned if we continue this argument ;)
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #78
It's a debate, though. Now for a Polish Jew who really experienced Anti Semitism and actually became Messianic because of Evangelical Catholics who saved him--Aaron Jean-Marie Lustiger.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
27 Jun 2012 #79
became Messianic because of Evangelical Catholics who saved him--Aaron Jean-Marie Lustiger.

this could be interesting

Now for a Polish Jew

I know I'm splitting hairs again but it's a crucial distinction. I can't find any evidence that she was a Polish national. Please provide a link.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Jun 2012 #80
Let's just focus on Lustiger. Anyway, he was born in Paris to Będzin-born Jews and became Catholic after Evangelical Protestants (not, as I incorrectly remembered, Catholics. Anyway, Protestants) saved him during the Holocaust. He then became Catholic after reading the Bible.
grubas 12 | 1,390
27 Jun 2012 #81
Here in the States a Pol-Am doesn't stand a chance against the incessant drone of inculcation : "Poles are anti-semites......Poles are anti-semites.....Poles are anti-semites"

I know,it has become an axiom.I was once told by a college girl (I think she was Jewish) after she learned I am from Poland "Oh,so you hate Jews".For roots of this constant anti Polish propaganda barrage check the other link I provided.Have you watched any interviews with holocaust "survivors?Plenty of this stuff on YT.Everyone of them is being asked "Have you encountered any antisemitism BEFORE the war?".Not a single question about Jewish attitude toward Poles is being asked.Very few of interviewed Jews say (not asked) that a Pole providing ANY kind of help to a Jew was risking his life.
Harry
27 Jun 2012 #82
All I can say is "RESPECT". What a read!

Pity it is from a source which can't get the basics about Poland right. Even grubas knows more about Poland than that source does.

Namely, that the Jews didn't want to live, work and play with the Poles. They rejected the Poles.

Saying that is as stupid as saying that the Poles hated Jews and rejected Jews. It is just as pointless a lie. It is also just as unhelpful.

The truth is that some Jews did hate and reject Poles, just as some Poles did hate and reject Jews; and some Jews entirely accepted Poles and integrated into Polish society as fully as possible (i.e. as fully as they were allowed to under Polish law), and some Poles entirely accepted Jews and their efforts to integrate into Polish society.

There was never ever an opposing view broadcast as loudly and as incessantly and as doggedly as the pro-Jewish one.

Rubbish. There have always been lots of sources which loudly broadcast the viewpoint which opposes the pro-Jewish one. Just head over to stormfront.com: you'll find lots of sources there (and most a lot more accurate than your Toronto Polonia source).
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
27 Jun 2012 #83
Pity it is from a source which can't get the basics about Poland right.

When you say "source" do you mean the site hosting the essay, or the essay itself? That's a very important distinction we need to make right at the start.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
27 Jun 2012 #84
This is the stuff my parents and grandparents used to tell us kids.

I am convinced that much of this was exaggeration. If it was so widespread as claimed, why is it that there has been no serious research done into it here? There are plenty of "American" studies, yet no-one talks about it. Why?

There was never ever an opposing view broadcast as loudly and as incessantly and as doggedly as the pro-Jewish one. After years of being told that your people are "Jew-haters" and "Jew-persecutors" I began to believe it thereby falling into the trance.

Harry sums it up perfectly.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
27 Jun 2012 #85
I am convinced that much of this was exaggeration.

Just read the essay. Talking about something you haven't read is pointless.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
27 Jun 2012 #86
I thought that's about Poland, rather than Polish-Americans?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
27 Jun 2012 #87
Yeah, but I thought we were discussing the essay. Rybnik was, as far as I can see...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
27 Jun 2012 #88
Aa, yes, he was - I read it as they were rejected in America!

My mistake :)
grubas 12 | 1,390
27 Jun 2012 #89
I am convinced that much of this was exaggeration.

YOU are convinced?And what YOU being an alien with no roots in this country can know about a subject?

why is it that there has been no serious research done into it here?

Plenty but not accesible to you since you don't speak,write nor read Polish and even if you did I am sure being a Jew you would dismiss it as antisemitic.
Harry
27 Jun 2012 #90
When you say "source" do you mean the site hosting the essay, or the essay itself?

The site hosting it gets the basics wrong and the essay is just anti-semitic bile dressed up as academic work. For example (these are all from page two):

In Poland, Jews lived in closed, tightly knit, isolated communities largely of their own making.

Utter bollocks. Jews accounted for a third of the population of Warsaw. For the same proportion in Lodz. For 42% of the population in Lwow. 45% in Wilno. Yes, some Jews did live in closed, tightly knit, isolated communities but the majority did not: more than three quarters of Jews lived in cities and towns.

Jews guarded their communal life closely and wanted as few dealings with the outside world as possible, except for those necessary to sustain their economic livelihood.

More rubbish, and note how the author has already played the 'Jews love money' card.

Originally, the basis for separation was dictated by the tenets of their religion.

Patently utter shiite. If it were true, there would have been no need for 'Christian' Poles to demand that their cities were issued with the right of non tolerandis Judaeis (which prevented Jews from living in the city).

The Jews wanted to live as a separate nation within a nation, among their own kind, with their own language, schools and institutions, and even their own government.

Yet another sweeping generalisation with no supporting source at all. But why bother supporting it? This particular canard, of Judeopolonia, has been used in anti-semitic texts for so long that it has become accepted as an unquestionable truth for Jews bashers.

I could go on, but what would be the point? Life is too short to waste it reading the ranting of an anti-semite who has no interest in truth.


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