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Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles

Crow 145 | 6,860    
24 Jul 2017  #91

The name "Sorb" is not related with the name "Serb",

`Sorb` is foreign give designation for Slavs who call themselves Serbs. So go check for yourself how Lusatians designate themselves. Same as Adriatic/Balkan Serbs.

Now, how name `Serb` come to be from Baltic and Northern Europe to Adriatic via Central Europe to South-Eastern Europe and Balkans? Its because ethnic name `Serb` represent last trace of once universal and original name of all Slavs (Sarmatian name- that is itself foreign given form, while `Serb` represent original form). There, from Northern to South-Eastern Europe, along the Danube, was located backbone of ancient Sarmatian realm (that`s why name survived in use to the modern times). It was wide core. Now imagine what were limits of Sarmatian world if Danube was center. It was wast world, on inter-continental level.

AndrzejKonst - | 5    
24 Jul 2017  #92

To Crow123

There are not one reliable explanation of the origin of the name "Serb" and "Sorb" up to present days, although discussion started more then 2000 years ago.

During this huge period of time there were no lingustics as a separated field of human knowledge, but human ear always have catched similar sounds.

Today we know how deceptive these similarities could be. A good example is Wikipedia article "Origin hypotheses of the Serbs", pointing out this sound-based
theories. Even "Sarmatians" starting this thread one can find in this article! Akin of this concerns are that of origin of the "Galatia" name in Minor Asia,

fortunately less biased with political burden.
Yet, it has always been curiously to make astonishing conjectures, at the end - what better pushes ahead our knowledge than curious conjecture!
Exemplary, now in mathematics the Collatz Conjecture is one of such topics.

Andrzej Konstantynowicz
jon357 69 | 13,491    
24 Jul 2017  #93

discussion started more then 2000 years ago.


Advice, not 'advices'. From Germany?
Ziemowit 10 | 2,870    
24 Jul 2017  #94

The same sick hatred and contempt toward everything that is "not ours".

This attitude is rather common among the expats living in Poland who come to post on this forum, not only was it typical for Sobieski (Panie, świeć nad jego duszą!).

No. Word `Luzica` is of Slavic origin. Very old word, ancient. Its `spoon`, literally.

This is perhaps quite close to the truth, Crow. Speaking precisely, Luzica takes its name after the land which is full of water and damp. You can also recognize the same root in the Russian word 'ług" which means 'acid' or 'acidic liquid/water'. This root is also present in the Polish word 'kałuża' (puddle of water). If you add 'ka-' to the word 'Łużyce (the Polish name for 'Luzica'), you get the word 'kałużyce', a very similar one to the word 'kałuże' (puddles), 'kałużyce' meaning 'big cuddles', although the latter word has disappeared from usage. And remember that in the early Middle Age period these parts of Europe had much more water than thay have today.

Of course, 'łyżka' may have exactly the same root as 'kałuża' (tool you used to take some acidic liquid as were probably ancient soups into your mouth).

The name "Sorb" is not related with the name "Serb", although sounds akin, and although these both tribes were and exist so far as Slavic.

I'd say they are closely related as it is very easy to imagine a German saying Sorb rather than Serb. Notice that in their own languages the 'Sorbish' people call themselves Serbja (Upper Lusatia) or Serby (Lower Lusatia). 'Sorbs' is a German name denoting a Serb living in Polabia which land was not German, but Slavic in the early Middle Ages.

"Serb" most probably meant 'kinsman' in proto-Slavic. This meaning can be distantly traced in the Polish name of 'pasierb' meaning 'stepson'.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
25 Jul 2017  #95

"Serb" most probably meant 'kinsman' in proto-Slavic.

Most probable `Serb` coming from the word (verb) such is `to collect` (in Serbian- `sakupljati`, `sabirati`). In Ukrainian language its `zbirati` [what because of that `z` reminds me of Russian Empress Catharine the Great who was of Lusatian Serbian origin, originally was Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst]. Then also in Polish `zbierać`. In Russian `sobirat`. In Czech `sbirat`. Etc. Lingustic stance is that speaking about meaning of Serbian ethnic name ultimately we coming to the `great mass of people` that was comprehend as one, united, around something. Explanations goes from things such are `united effort in collecting the food` to the `unity in defense/war campaign`.

But, if we follow logic of Serbian language (not sure for Polish on this one), `kinsmen` would be in connection to Serbian word `rod/rodjak, rasa` (cousin, race) that refers to `kinship` in same tribal and even racial origin. But, later more on this. Topic is very interesting.

In any case, attempting to understand meaning if ethnic name of Serbs we would learn much about Sarmatian name that in its original (native given) form was based on `Serb` name. In that sense think of local variations of Sarmatian name (that is foreign given form) within realm of our ancients > Serbja, Serby, Srbi, .... Then, we have variation preserved in the name of Siberia in Russia or even Sorbona in France (this example forcing me to think that maybe `Sorb` form existed within realm of the ancients as one of native forms (in some region) but, later, after assimilation and destruction of natives that form turned to be, by invaders, also assimilated and used to designate rest of Serbs/ie Sarmatians).
Crow 145 | 6,860    
25 Jul 2017  #96

Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles

Oh, that? I understand that. I am dreamer myself. Back then in our deep past, when Sarmatian realm stretched on inter-continental level, ancients had good life. Everything was more simple in the land of green and land of free. Not that it was easy but, man was a man and woman was a woman. Child, too. You had solidarity in everything and you had plenty of opportunities to live as `lone wolf. One could travel on all four sides of the world, all his life and. one could never see anything else but only land of Sarmatians.
Bobko 6 | 96    
25 Jul 2017  #97

One could travel on all four sides of the world, all his life and. one could never see anything else but only land of Sarmatians.

Seems boring to me. There's value in diversity.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
26 Jul 2017  #98

Then don`t worry. You`ll get extra diversity. Just walk round the next corner and one muja would be there waiting.
AndrzejKonst - | 5    
28 Jul 2017  #99

To all of you! You are wonderful! I am so glad reviving this discussion!

The subject, on slightly wider basis than only Slavic roots in Europe, is very interesting, and, in my opinion, very important, especially in so called modern world seeking its roots.

Let take into account India. One friends of my, Indian mathematician very strongly involved into the history of his homeland, years ago had turned my attention to some astonishing facts from this history and, as the mathematician, some illogical statements and conclusions of so called "Oxford historians". They simply have "sticked" two rulers named Chandragupta for to make Indian history slightly shorter! It has not been possible for them to admit that such a "barbarian" country possess so long history! After differentiating this two rulers, everything goes back to the right position and there is no longer gap in a timeline between Mohenjo Daro civilization and "pure Indian" roots and... achievements.

After all, the Indo-Europeans and Slavic tribes had gone out into the wide world from the exactly same place north of Caspian sea and south of Ural mountains, the very specific region, very important for Cro Magnon human beings.

Andrzej Konstantynowicz
AndrzejKonst - | 5    
28 Jul 2017  #100

To Ziemowit8.

Recently, I have observed the same type of behaviour at so called "expants". I have an acquaintance from my pub, Muslim, living in Poland from more then 20 years, even married here. But lately, seems to be driven by TV propaganda, he has started to express some strange opinions on me, our collegues, Polish people, situation in Poland an so on. Nobody of us in the pub prosecute this man, and it seems that he feel herself very unhappy exactly from this reason - it is very hard to stay martyr without prosecution. Nobody of us in the pub can understand this situation. A few months ago, during "night talkings with beer in the background" I've heard from him, that this opinions and attitudes have been announced to him during some special meetings in Warsaw with the "old and esteemed men" - may be even "Sheikhs". What to do when meeting such a situation? Is there anybody who know how to dam such a stream of hatred?

Andrzej Konstantynowicz
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
28 Jul 2017  #101

I have an acquaintance from my pub, Muslim,

no you do not, what nonsense.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
28 Jul 2017  #102

To all of you! You are wonderful! I am so glad reviving this discussion!

Blessings of Christ and Svetovid on you, dobri prijatelju.

Yes, I feel wonderful and wish the same to you.

no you do not, what nonsense.

Tell me, what is nonsense there. Will you
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
28 Jul 2017  #103

Tell me, what is nonsense there. Will you

1. Muslims do not hang around in pubs....generally. Why would they?
2. the person who wrote this is just making up some nonsense to be provocative.

you do see that dont you Crowie?
mafketis 16 | 5,681    
28 Jul 2017  #104

This attitude is rather common among the expats living in Poland who come to post on this forum

Quick typology of forum members

1) Expats/Longterm residents of Poland who think that Poland needs to change as much as possible in the direction of the UK (because reasons)

2) Expats/Longterm residents with no such thought, they have the normal quibbles that come with living in a foreign country

3) Diaspora Poles with a realistic attitude toward the country

4) Diaspora Poles with strange, unrealistic attitudes toward the country (usually stuck in the past and/or trying to 'rebuild' a past that never existed)

5) South Asians who show up to ask a single question (that they easily could find for themselves if they searched for three seconds) and then disappear forever

6) crow (sui generis...)

7) slimy repulsive entities that appear from another dimension

8) people with some ancestory in Poland with questions about citizenship/inheritance

9) random passers by

There used to be (but not so much anymore)

10) western guys wanting translations because they think their girlfriends are cheating on them

11) western guys who don't realize their girlfriends are trying to gently dump them (forcing their girlfriends into drastic action to get rid of them)

12) non-Polish women wondering what the he1l is up with Polish men, how did they get that way?
Ziemowit 10 | 2,870    
28 Jul 2017  #105

Quick typology of forum members

A very interesting typology indeed. The next step could be trying to assign every (or exemplary) member to a particular category (excluding Crow as he constitutes a category for himself).

Prey tell into which category would you assign me as I cannot find anything for myself :-).
mafketis 16 | 5,681    
28 Jul 2017  #106

Prey tell into which category would you assign me

I was thinking 3 (I was under the impression that you live in the UK...)

back on topic please
Crow 145 | 6,860    
28 Jul 2017  #107


generally. As you said.

Why would they?

some of them? because they feel like normal Europeans, for example. You know, in former Yugoslavia was many Bosnian muslims that were normal Europeans, prior NATO, EU and Islamic league made a deal and manipulated with them and introduced on them Nazi-Islam ideology (created by Germany During WWII).

the person who wrote this is just making up some nonsense to be provocativ

Many here would say that you talk about me

you do see that dont you Crowie?

Its just glad to me that I`m not the only crazy on this forum
Ziemowit 10 | 2,870    
28 Jul 2017  #108

I was under the impression that you live in the UK

No, I don't.

back on topic please

This is on-topic. The majority of the groups listed by Maf in his typology consist of people who are either Luzatians or Sarmatians which is why those posts are on topic. And the thread is devoted to "Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession", isn't it?
mafketis 16 | 5,681    
28 Jul 2017  #109

people who are either Luzatians or Sarmatians

When it comes right down to it, wouldn't it have made a lot more sense if Kennedy said "Ich bin ein Sarmater!"?
Crow 145 | 6,860    
20 Jan 2018  #110

On January 14. was the anniversary of death of one true Sarmatian.


General Pavle from Zgorzelec (1848-1922), Hero of all Serbs- of all last bearers of venerable Sarmatian name

Pavle Evgenije Jurišić "Šturm" (born Paulus Eugen Sturm), Lusatanian Serb, veteran in Serbian-Turkish wars, military educated and also promoted field commander for exemplary military virtue, during WWI commandeered to the 3rd Serbian army during famous Battle of Cer- first allied victory in WWI. By his brilliant commanding, Serbian 3rd army timely prevented penetration of Austrio-Hungarian army behind flanks of Serbian 1rst army what allowed to general Stepa Stepanovic to inflict decisive strike into the enemy and victory was won.

To give you picture of high level of Serbian victory over much more numerous opponent, I will give you some numbers. Austro-Hungaria lost in battle more then 25.000 soldiers and Serbia below 4.800 soldiers. Complete route and panic fleeing of Austro-Hungarin army occurred.

It was this battle when Austro-Hungaria effectively died and that even yet wasn`t aware of that, no matter that snake still managed to inflict great suffering onto the Serbian people in years to come. After this battle, in every next conflict of Serbian-AH army, moral among mobilized Slavs, subjects of the AH Empire was so low and pro-Serbian that history recorded how complete regiments and battalions consisting of Czechs, Slovaks and Poles were turning to Serbian side against their former AH masters. Only when Germany sent huge reinforcements and after Bulgaria betrayed alliance with Serbs and hit us from the back, Serbia started to losing battles.

Till the end of WWI, Serbia lost 1/3 of its population, liberating in the process itself, complete Slavic South and Slavic Adriatic coast, pursuing AH army all the way to Vienna until the final dissolution of AH Empire.

Is there any monument or street name in Poland dedicated to General Pavle, Lusatian Serb from Zgorzelec ?? Any ?? I hope that exist. How so much he contributed to independence and freedom of Poland. I hope that Poles didn`t forget him. It would be sin.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
2 Feb 2018  #111

Decorations and medals of General Pavle, Lusatian Serb from Zgorzelec


Serbian military decorations

Serbian Service Medals

Long live Lusatia eterna!

Tacitus 1 | 377    
3 Feb 2018  #112

Always nice to see when a German played a positive role in another countries history ;)
Lyzko 17 | 4,603    
3 Feb 2018  #113

Try General von Steuben in the US (...before it became the United States of America)! The Prussian fought shoulder to shoulder with General Washington, plus, it was yet another German, Emanuel Leutze, whose painting of Washington crossing the Delaware prior to reaching Valley Forge, which remains one of the most indelible images in all of US history to this day. And there's always the former printer John Peter Zenger who was the first to openly champion freedom of speech in the colonies.

Crow 145 | 6,860    
3 Feb 2018  #114

Scratch the surface and you realize how are Germans in fact Slavs. Fortunately, some of them are aware of it.

Some of them, like General Pavle, Lusatian Serb from Zgorzelec, always were aware of it.
Tacitus 1 | 377    
3 Feb 2018  #115

The man was from Görlitz though. Zgorzelec did not yet exist.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
3 Feb 2018  #116

Alright, Görlitz is at the moment located in German state of Saxony. But, even in its German form word `Görlitz` is of Slavic origin. Polish: Zgorzelec, Upper Sorbian: Zhorjelc, Lower Sorbian: Zgórjelc, Czech: Zhořelec.

General Pavle himself used to say that he was born in `Gerlic` (not in Görlitz) and also used Polish form of word `Zgorzelec`.

General Pavle was in pain that Lusatia still suffer German yoke. So he loved everything Serbian, no matter northern- Lusatian or southern- Balkan. And he served Serbdom and Slavdom well.
dolnoslask 4 | 1,806    
3 Feb 2018  #117

Görlitz is at the moment located in German state of Saxony.

lets hope it don't move too far, great place for a visit, of course the home of the grand hotel budapest.
Tacitus 1 | 377    
3 Feb 2018  #118

Görlitz has a particulary beautiful city center that was extensively restored after German reunification.
dolnoslask 4 | 1,806    
3 Feb 2018  #119

Oh i know it well I visit once a month, nice Polish restaurant the other side of the freedom Bridge, gorlitz is a must see especially new years eve.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
3 Feb 2018  #120

Now, when you know. Please, next time you are there, go in Church there, whatever Church, and give one prayer for general Pavle, presumably, you are Polish or any Slavic soul. Man contributed to independence of Poland, too. To liberation of all Slavs within A-H and Ottoman Empire.

Also, he was one of ever greatest, untold and not openly mentioned, military genius. Its a rare talent and luck for one general commander to take part in crucial battles that led to crumbling of two empires. General Pavle by his military virtue helped in putting down Ottoman Turkish and Austro-Hungarian Empires. True, true genuine commander of all times. And great Sarmatian. May he rest in peace.

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