The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 1,290

Polish hatred towards Jews...


jon357 67 | 16,836
9 Jan 2018 #1,141
So why did they choose such a hostile country?

Chicken and egg. From where did hostility arise, if not from conservatives' fear and suspicion about anybody different. See the post above for an example of that silliness.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
10 Jan 2018 #1,142
disabled people, didn't he Ironside.

Talking about your idol Stalin? Well, I wouldn't be surprised commies in fact murdered a lot of people.

ingrained anti-Semitism in Eastern and Central Europe?

There is no ingrained anti-Semitisms. At least is no bigger than in any given country like Germany, France, USA, UK. The difference is that with an exception of the USA in all those countries banned free speech and freedom of expression. In Poland people just talk a lot openly and sometimes they talk a lot of shite. Jews are much safer in Poland than Poles in Israel.

By the way what is wrong with Israeli tourists in Poland - what they behave like filthy swine and destroy stuff and leave the mess behind them?

What you as a totalitarian minded commie want to do is to ban freedom of speech and then tell them what to say, how to say and what not to say. Why don't you take a long walk on a short pier?
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,143
Talking about your idol Stalin?

No, yours, a far worse person. Read about Aktion T4, Ironside...

There is no ingrained anti-Semitisms

Yes there is.
kaprys 3 | 2,502
10 Jan 2018 #1,144
I'm sorry but that doesn't answer my simple question.
Why did Jews choose Poland?
I keep being told about Polish antisemitism and hostility towards Jews. I'm not going to defend my arguments anymore- I've been doing it since I joined the forum. This time I'd love to hear a logical answer to the question above.

There are tons of other countries with better weather, probably less violent history and apparently more friendly people. So why did so many Jews choose Poland?
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,145
Why did Jews choose Poland?

Yes this is the interesting question. Even if people want to argue that in the past Jewish people were already here and then the antisemitism started, why do they keep returning? I mean Israeli representatives seem desperate to have a good relationship with Poland and it seems they want to do a lot of business with Poland. If Poland is such an awful country with deep ingrained antisemitism, why would they not just stay clear of it? Why not just cut ties until the country sorts itself out?
kaprys 3 | 2,502
10 Jan 2018 #1,146
But I'm thinking mainly about the past.
There must have been some significant reasons why so many chose Poland and stayed. For generations.
Didn't Poland have the biggest Jewish community? How? After all, Poland is said to have been so hostile and antisemitic.
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,147
There must have been some significant reasons why so many chose Poland

Geography mostly, proximity and opportunity.

and stayed.

Hard to up sticks and leave once you're somewhere.

After all, Poland is said to have been so hostile and antisemitic.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Poland was as much theirs as anyone else's.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
10 Jan 2018 #1,148
Geography mostly, proximity and opportunity.

opportunity, economical mostly, lax laws and no gov prosecutions so potent in other parts of the word. So I say stick your advice and your finger waving up your own backside - to put it bluntly,. Seeming that is the only language you do understand.

Poland was as much theirs as anyone else's.

BS - there is host and guest as ever. Guest can assimilate or their children but there shared ownership that BS.
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,149
So I say stick your advice and your finger waving up your own backside - to put it bluntly

What a creepy thing to write.

there is host and guest as ever.

No. Neither group has any special claim that the otrher doesn't.
Lyzko 29 | 7,240
10 Jan 2018 #1,150
@WielkiPolak, I'd be glad to correct you, because you are very wrong! The Romans under the region's governor Pontius Pilate ordered the execution of Christ.

As Christ was himself a Jew, it would seem odd to have fellow Jews conspiring against one of their own, although regrettably, such has been know to happen.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,151
@Lyzko you're the one who is wrong on this. Read the Bible. Pontius Pilate was pressured in to crucifying Jesus by the Jews. They wanted him to be killed for blasphemy - for calling himself the son of God. They didn't want to do the killing themselves though, so got Pilate to do it. Yes he ordered the execution, but only because they wanted him to do it.

Unless you don't care much for the Bible and have some other document you get your information from?
Lyzko 29 | 7,240
10 Jan 2018 #1,152
Pilate could have refused. Furthermore, to suggest that the Jews alone, in and of themselves, brought their tortured history upon their people, is the height of hypocricy!

Had the Catholic Church allowed them to co-exist within European society, join guilds in order to learn a proper trade, much less become soldiers in the local militia so as to integrate into Christian life (while still practicing their faith in private) , they wouldn't have been seen as the eternal pariah, doing only the thankless tasks such as money lending etc. which were off limits to Christians.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,153
Pilate could have refused.

This Jesus was causing a lot of unrest among the Jewish population and if he had done nothing, he would have had a lot of unhappy citizens, who may have started to turn against him, so it was a lot easier for him to have Jesus killed, in order to appease the masses. It was a cowardly act, but to act like it was nothing to do with the Jews and all Pilate's doing, is dishonest.

I never suggested this act is what brought some of the Jew's hardships on them, but who knows. For those who are religious, the scripture states that Pilate washed his hands of the killing of Christ and Jews shouted 'his blood on us and our children.' Some Christians believe that the hardships Jewish generations have suffered since then might be partially down to this. Some even believe Hitler was one of these 'punishments.' I personally wouldn't go that far, as it would be an incredibly cruel thing for God to do.

It seems you think that the Catholic church has a lot to do with Jewish problems and suffering?
kaprys 3 | 2,502
10 Jan 2018 #1,154
@jon357
What are you saying? Poland belonged to Jews as much as to the tribes that created the country?
Poland's geographical proximity to what place?
If the country had been hostile they wouldn't have settled here in the first place.

@Lyzko
wy did Jews stay in such a hostile country?

Christians believe Jesus died for human sins. So it doesn't matter who killed him.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,692
10 Jan 2018 #1,155
It was the high priest(s) of Israel who decided to have Jesus killed - the Romans i.e. Pilate, centurions, soldiers, etc. merely did what the local Jewish establishment wanted as the high priets convinced local Jews and the Romans in charge of Judea that Jesus was a huge threat and needed to be killed. Then they riled up the Jewish crowd so that Barabus, a thief and i believe murderer as well, could be set free instead of Jesus who was accused of blasphemy. Mainly the priests were mad at Jesus for calling out their rackets at the temple, calling them a den of vipers, flipping over their money exchange tables, etc. The Jews turned the temple into a market place and indeed to this day much business continues to be done in synagogues. You can even view old videos of Jews bringing goods to trade along with them to temple - especially the more Orthodox. Pilate didn't care about Jesus one way or other he even said he didn't see that Jesus did anything wrong but after the Jewish establishment convinced him otherwise with their nagging and whining he eventually relented and said do what you wish. Some Roman centurions even converted to Christianity afterward. Nonetheless, Roman, abetted by the local Jews, continued to persecute Christians well after Jesus' crucifixion - throwing them into pits with lions, burning them alive, etc. The ancient Jewish establishment HATED Christianity and much of this hatred especially amongst Zionists and Talmud followers continues to this day.
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,156
as much as to the tribes that created the country?

Did they not play their part in life?

If the country had been hostile they wouldn't have settled here in the first place.

As I say, chicken and egg.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
10 Jan 2018 #1,157
Christians believe Jesus died for human sins. So it doesn't matter who killed him

Exactly you can't be a christian if you persecute Jews

Romans 12:19

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

So its up to god , as Kaprys said he died for human sin so he knew what he was doing. and in any case you cant blame all Jews for what happened, same as you can't blame all Muslims for terrorism.

So to sum up someone who hates and persecutes Jews cannot be a Christian.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,158
Jon you keep talking of this chicken and egg. If you believe, as I do, that there were events and stereotypes that caused a dislike towards Jews in Poland, then you also admit that antisemitism isn't a 'part of Poland,' like Poland = antisemitism. Some people on here are making it seem like, if Poland exists, then antisemitism must also exist, as if there is no Poland with no antisemitism. There was a time, when there was no antisemitism in Poland.

The trouble with Jews is, for so long they haven't had their own land and have been scattered around the world, and people in other countries, have often had their suspicions about them, often rightfully so. The belief is that Jews don't given two hoots about the country they have settle in, only to make lots of money there and create a good life for themselves. These Jews are thought of as still seeing Israel as their real homeland and wouldn't fight for any other country but Israel. I.e. their allegiances lie elsewhere.

You say that Poland is as much theirs [the Jew's] as it is the Poles', but I'm not sure there are many Jews who love Poland that much. Would they fight for it? Would they die for it? Or would they do what many did when the Soviets invaded and kiss Russian ass, turning on the Polish people?
Taxpaying voter
10 Jan 2018 #1,159
antisemitism isn't a 'part of Poland,

Don't be silly, there is anti-Semitism in every country.

Or would they do what many did when the Soviets invaded and kiss Russian ass, turning on the Polish people?

What a huge surprise to see you of all people trotting out the old Zydokomuna line. Perhaps you'd care to explain why the percentage of Jews in the Polish army was pretty much the same as the percentage of Jews in the population of Poland? Or why the percentage of those who were murdered at Katyn and were Jewish was about the same as the percentage of Jews in the population of Poland? There wasn't exactly a shortage of Poles from any faith who were happy to kiss Soviet arse, as the decades of communism here proved.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,160
there is anti-Semitism in every country.

That's my point. Some people act like antisemitism is ingrained in Poland - part of its DNA. It isn't and there are many countries where Jews are far less safe than in Poland, as I have already mentioned.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why the percentage of Jews in the Polish army was pretty much the same as the percentage of Jews in the population of Poland?

Zydokomuna isn't fantasy, there was and still is zydokomuna in Poland. Now they are probably more known as leftist Jews, but some still refer to it as zydokomuna, from the communist times. I never said there weren't Jews in the Polish army who fought for Poland, nor did I say there weren't Polish communists. Heck, general Jaruzelski is probably the most prominent of them. My point is, foreigners will always be treated differently to nationals, no matter how much we mask it. If in Britain, a handful of Poles commit awful crimes, it is easy for there to be a lot of anti-Polish sentiment and distrust to Poles because of it, even if other Poles do nothing wrong and even like Britain a lot. I'm trying to explain where the mistrust comes from.

Anyway, I think if this 447 act for uncompensated survivors gets signed by president Trump and leads to a mass onslaught on Poland from America, about paying money to Jews, Polish Jewish relations will break down again. Poland and Israel are seemingly very friendly with each other for now, but I think many Polish people are waiting for that moment when suddenly Israel and the USA starts demanding money. If this happens, the trust will be gone again, and once again Polish people will believe Jews are only about the money. Hopefully this won't happen and the good relations can continue.
Taxpaying voter
10 Jan 2018 #1,161
there are many countries where Jews are far less safe than in Poland

Care to name the other European nations where the Chief Rabbi of the country was attacked in the street?

there was and still is zydokomuna in Poland.

I do understand that you've never spent more than a day or two here, but please at least try to think before writing.

general Jaruzelski is probably the most prominent of them. My point is, foreigners will always be treated differently to nationals

Are you really so ignorant that you want to claim that Jaruzelski was a Jew? He wasn't, he was a member of minor Polish aristocracy. Or did you mean that he was a communist who joined the Polish army? If so, that claim is nearly as ignorant.

Your so-called point is deeply disappointing and does nothing but further the stench of bigotry that surrounds your posts. Here's a top tip for you: remember that Poles who are Jewish are every bit a Pole who are Catholic and Poles who are Protestant and Poles who are Pastafarian.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,162
Care to name the other European nations where the Chief Rabbi of the country was attacked in the street?

Are you seriously implying that Poland is the most dangerous country for Jews to live in with that statement? That must be why the most tourists visiting Poland last year were from Israel?

I do understand that you've never spent more than a day or two here, but please at least try to think before writing.

Stop making clueless statements. You don't know how often I go to Poland and how much time I spend there.

Or did you mean that he was a communist who joined the Polish army?

No dummy. General Jaruzelski was my example of a Polish national who worked for the commies. You know, when I said there were Poles who defected to the Soviet side as well? Learn to read more carefully before you attack people. I know you find attacking people fun and enjoy provoking, but seriously, take a deep breath, read everything, understand it, then reply. Or better yet, don't post anything.

By the way, how many accounts do you have on this site?
Taxpaying voter
10 Jan 2018 #1,163
Are you seriously implying that Poland is the most dangerous country for Jews to live in with that statement?

How surprising that you prefer to argue against what I don't say than to answer a question which shows what you do say to be at best mis-guided. Why don't you want to tell us in which other European nations where the Chief Rabbi of the country was attacked in the street?

You don't know how often I go to Poland and how much time I spend there.

Your general ignorance of Poland and things Polish speaks volumes about that topic.

No dummy.

Good to see you resorting to insults, nicely underlines the fact you know you can't hope to argue based on facts, because the facts are against you.

Anyway, care to explain why you say about Jews and Poland "foreigners will always be treated differently to nationals"? Or is the reason the obvious one?
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,164
How surprising that you prefer to argue against what I don't say than to answer a question which shows what you do say to be at best mis-guided.

I'd have to check, but I am pretty sure rabbi's have been attacked in other countries too, probably even in Israel. When I said there are many countries where Jews are far less safe than in Poland, your response was to ask me in what other country the chief rabbi was attacked on the street. So your clear implication was, 'oh yeah, safest place for Jews? Well where else has the Chief Rabbi been attacked?' So don't play stupid - you were implying Poland is far less safe than other places. Oh wait, perhaps you're not 'playing' stupid.

Your general ignorance of Poland and things Polish speaks volumes about that topic.

Says the self appointed expert

Good to see you resorting to insults, nicely underlines the fact you know you can't hope to argue based on facts, because the facts are against you.

Well if someone is behaving like a dummy, they deserve to be called out. I never said Jaruzelski was Jewish, yet you attacked me for saying that, which means you either can't read properly or just attacked me because you know, you like attacking people, it gets you excited.

Anyway, care to explain why you say about Jews and Poland "foreigners will always be treated differently to nationals"?

I'm saying in any countries foreigners have to do more to earn trust and respect, wherever they be from. Fortunately for you, quite a few of the people in Poland still unnecessarily suffer from an inferiority complex, so when they see a foreigner, they think he/she is better than them and fawn over them. They shouldn't.
kaprys 3 | 2,502
10 Jan 2018 #1,165
@jon357
I'm afraid I'm too stupid to understand your chicken and egg metaphor. Are you suggesting Polish antisemitism results from the number of Jews that used to live in Poland?

Jews started to settle in Poland around the 13th century - a while after the foundation of the state. So why the claim it belonged to them as much as to Poles?

@Taxpaying voter
Jews made about 1% of the Polish society after the war in the 1940/50s. Yet over 35% of the employees of the Ministry of National Security were Jewish.

Some of them were Soviet Jews.

The reality is - even though none of the people who hate Poland will admit it - that Poland wasn't more hostile towards Jews than any other country. In fact, it was a better place to live. That's the reason why there were so many Jews in Poland. Poland owed nothing to Jews when they were allowed to settle here.

Yet Poland gets nothing but accusations.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,166
How surprising that you prefer to argue against what I don't say than to answer a question which shows what you do say to be at best mis-guided

By the way you never answered my question. How many accounts do you have on here?
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,167
Are you suggesting Polish antisemitism results from the number of Jews that used to live in Poland?

More or less, Kaprys. In any society there's always an element within the population that needs to hate, fear or objectify another group. That group tends to be the most visible minority.

Some of them were Soviet Jews.

Russians.

Are you really so ignorant that you want to claim that Jaruzelski was a Jew?

Evidently yes, he seems to be that ignorant.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
10 Jan 2018 #1,168
Jon I know Harold is stupid but you don't have to follow in your mate's footsteps, please.
kaprys 3 | 2,502
10 Jan 2018 #1,169
@jon357
So why did they keep on settling here? They weren't the only minority and you know it. So why is it so freaking difficult to admit Poland was the most welcoming place for them?

They were Jews from the USSR so I'd say Soviet. Why Russian only?
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Jan 2018 #1,170
So why did they keep on settling here?

You seem determined to argue- it's worth stepping back and looking at the situation objectively.

Poland was the most welcoming place for them?

That's not much to boast about, given the situation in other Slavic-speaking territories...

Home / History / Polish hatred towards Jews...
Discussion is closed.