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How come Poles like Russians but not Germans?

McDouche Activity: 6 / 286
Joined: 19 Jun 2013 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #61

I wouldn't care if this is true, but still there is no evidence.

Vlad, so you agree Poles have more significance of the R1b haplogroup? Who else would they get it from besides Germanic tribes!?

pawian Activity: 127 / 6,582
Joined: 30 May 2008 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #62

you don't want to say what senseless ******** you came up with.

I told you to sleep with it. But I see you won`t listen. :):):)

Look, it seems you have no idea what/who you are talking about in this thread. Vlad posted the pictures of two Polish presidents for comparison but none of them is Tusk, as you claim. You mistook Tusk with Komorowski.

I have been trying to tell you about it but you got stuck in your silly ignorance.

Another one:

Vlad1234:Donald Tusk belongs to the Kashubian minority in Poland.

But we know he's also of German descent. That's a fact!

Prove the fact then, Mr Brilliant.
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #63

Vlad, so you agree Poles have more significance of the R1b haplogroup? Who else would they get it from besides Germanic tribes!?

From 16% they have (if they do), 8% is from Celts and 8% they had originally (as well as Russian Europids). Small part of it could be from Germans as well.

I wonder, why somebodies want to be related to Germans so much? I do not have something against modern Germans, but we have to recognize

they are practically under extinction as a nation. Currently in Germany 34.9% of all children under age 5 have at least one parent who bears non-German passport. Not to count those non-German parents with German passports. Just in one generation Germans will become minority in their own country.

40% of German girls do not want to have any children. An example to follow?.. Well, but beside any other qualities a nation needs to have at least survivability...
pawian Activity: 127 / 6,582
Joined: 30 May 2008 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #64

wonder, why somebodies want to be related to Germans so much?

Actually, who cares? I have never talked about our Polish genes in real life, such topics are only on PF! :):) And it is mostly foreign guys who are vividly interested. Funny.
Wulkan Activity: - / 3,099
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #65

I wonder, why somebodies want to be related to Germans so much?

Exactly, tell me why you want it so much?

Russians have German roots even more...

Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
5 Jul 2013  #66

Not really. I just wanted to show that Russia is not so alien to Western Europeans as some are trying to hint.
Personally I like many features of German culture and do not disagree that person could respect his German heritage.
Personally, I would if Germans would be more biologically sustainable and thriving nation.
Wulkan Activity: - / 3,099
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #67

I just wanted to show that Russia is not so alien to Western Europeans

And instead of just saying that you had to give some controversial, false statement that Russians are more mixed with Germans than Poles? You really like attention don't you?
McDouche Activity: 6 / 286
Joined: 19 Jun 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #68

You mistook Tusk with Komorowski.

Actually, I mistook him for Medvedev who looks like a young Tusk in that photo.

From 16% they have (if they do), 8% is from Celts and 8% they had originally (as well as Russian Europids). Small part of it could be from Germans as well.

Pay attention Vlad. 16% was the minimum. They could have as much as 30%.

Also, a lot of the Germanic nations don't really have much of the I1 haplogroup in general so I'm not sure that's a good way of measuring how Germanic Poland is. Germany seems to have less than 20% of it.

I wonder, why somebodies want to be related to Germans so much? I do not have something against modern Germans

I'm doing most of the arguing for that. By the way, in case you haven't realized, I'm an American (of mostly German descent).
Zibi Activity: - / 336
Joined: 19 Jul 2012 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #69

Actually, I mistook him for Medvedev who looks like a young Tusk in that photo

LOL.... and then again.... LOL :-)
pawian Activity: 127 / 6,582
Joined: 30 May 2008 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #70

Actually, I mistook him for Medvedev who looks like a young Tusk in that photo.

hahaha
But you still claimed

However, I will say Tusk looks more Germanic than Putin while Kaczynski looks very Slavic.

that's a good way of measuring how Germanic Poland is.

Hey, why are you so obsessed with the topic ??? It reminds me sth.....

LOL.... and then again.... LOL :-)

This guy is pathetic mess.
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #71

Pay attention Vlad. 16% was the minimum. They could have as much as 30%

I still didn't see some reliable and clear link which would state that.

By the way, in case you haven't realized, I'm an American (of mostly German descent).

That's good. But I hope that European genetics will be matter of objective and scientifically proved discussion.

Also, a lot of the Germanic nations don't really have much of the I1 haplogroup in general so I'm not sure that's a good way of measuring how Germanic Poland is. Germany seems to have less than 20% of it.

It proves that many Germans indeed have Celtic and Slavic descend. Probably you will be wondered to discover that: 23% of North East Germans have R1a haplogroup. eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml

Majority of cities in East Germany and some cities in Western Germany such as Lubeck were built by Slavs.
For example: Around AD 700 Slavic peoples started coming into the eastern parts of Holstein which had previously been settled by Germanic inhabitants who had left in the course of the Migration Period. In the early 9th century Charlemagne, whose attempts to Christianise the area were opposed by the Saxons, moved the Saxons out and brought in Polabian Slavs, allied to Charlemagne, in their stead. Liubice ("lovely") was founded on the banks of the river Trave about four kilometres north of the present-day city centre of Lübeck.

Around the late 12th century, a Slavic settlement called Dre¾ïany[6] had developed on the southern bank. Another settlement existed on the northern bank, but its Slavic name is unclear. It was known as Antiqua Dresdin verifiable since 1350 and later as Altendresden,[6][7] both literally "old Dresden".

Leipzig is derived from the Slavic word Lipsk, which means "settlement where the linden trees (British English: lime trees; U.S. English: basswood trees) stand".

The first recorded date in the history of Berlin is 1237, when the town is first mentioned in a title deed. Compared to other European capitals such as Rome, Paris or London, therefore, Berlin is a young city. Although the marshy area around the junctions of the Spree, Havel and Dahme rivers had been inhabited since the Bronze Age, the settlement at Berlin was founded by the Slavs, probably in the ninth century. (The oldest town in the area is actually Spandau, now a Berlin suburb, which dates from the eighth century.) "Berlin" is a word of Slavic origin, meaning a swamp.[1]

The name of the city, Graz (see the Slavic settlement Grad), and some archaeological finds point to the erection of a small castle by Alpine Slavic people

wikipedia

Hometown of Arnold Swarzenegger was founded by Slavs. By the way, less than quarter of Austrians have R1b and the same amount of R1a. Arnold was classified on some forums as partially Neo-Danubian it means he may have some Slavic roots.

Approx. 1/3 of family names in East Germany have Slavic origins. Even before immigrants came in. So its in fact Germans have more Slavic roots and heritage than Poles have German.

By the way, R1b originated in Asia:
R1b is a sub-clade within the much larger Eurasian MNOPS "macro-haplogroup", which is one of the predominant groupings of all the rest of human male lines outside of Africa, and this whole group, along indeed with all of macro-haplogroup F, is believed to have originated in Asia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA)#Origin_and_dispersal
Haplogroup I1 (Y-DNA) is the original paternal lineage of Nordic Europe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253

In spite of its lucrative saltworks, Lüneburg was originally subordinated to the town of Bardowick only a few miles to the north. Bardowick was older and was an important trading post for the Slavs.

In the 11th century Polabian Slavs founded a settlement at the Warnow river called Roztoc (which means broadening of a river); the name Rostock is derived from that designation.

In the midst of these lakes there was a settlement of the Slavic Obotrite (dated back to the 11th century). The area was called Zuarin (Zwierzyn), and the name Schwerin is derived from that designation.

The eastern Slavic tribe of the Carantanians migrated westward along the Drava into the Eastern Alps in the wake of the expansion of their Avar overlords during the 7th century, mixed with the Celto-Romanic population, and established the realm of Carantania (later Carinthia), which covered much of eastern and central Austrian territory and was the first independent Slavic state in Europe, centred at Zollfeld.

facebook.com/PanSlavizmus/photos/a.1522363414570393.1073741829.1522342297905838/1593457464127654/

By the way, in case you haven't realized, I'm an American (of mostly German descent).

So, are you sure you do not have a Slavic roots?

Brandenburg is situated in territory known in antiquity as Magna Germania, which reached to the Vistula river. By the 7th century, Slavic peoples are believed to have settled in the Brandenburg area. The Slavs expanded from the east, possibly driven from their homelands in present-day Ukraine and perhaps Belarus by the invasions of the Huns and Avars. They relied heavily on river transport. The two principal Slavic groups in the present-day area of Brandenburg were the Hevelli in the west and the Sprevane in the east.

Chemnitz is named after the river Chemnitz, a small tributary of the Zwickauer Mulde. The word "Chemnitz" is from the Sorbian language and means "stony brook". It is known in Czech as Saská Kamenice.

The name may originate from the Slavic term timänie 'swampy area'. Another possible origin for the name Demmin could be from Old Polabian dym (plural: dyminy) 'smoke', referring to clearing land through burning to make settlement possible.

From the 7th through the 12th centuries, the area of Mecklenburg was taken over by Western Slavic peoples, most notably the Obotrites and other tribes that Frankish sources referred to as "Wends". The 11th century founder of the Mecklenburgian dynasty of Dukes and later Grand Dukes, which lasted until 1918, was Nyklot of the Obotrites.

Ratzeburg. The town was founded in the 11th century as Racisburg. The name is traditionally derived from the local Wendish ruler, Prince Ratibor of the Polabians, who was nicknamed Ratse.

Lübben (Spreewald) (Lower Sorbian: Lubin (B³ota)) is a town of 14,000 people, capital of the Dahme-Spreewald district in the Lower Lusatia region of Brandenburg, Germany.

Torgau history. The settlement goes back to a Slavonic settlement named Turguo in the shire of Neletici. There was presumably a wooden Slavonic castle located under the present-day Hartenstein castle.

Ribnitz-Damgarten. The town's name derives in the Slavic settlements Rybanis (ryba means fish) and Damgor (dam means oak tree, gora means hill), located on opposite sides of the mouth of the Recknitz river.

To be continued...

Währing (German pronunciation: [ˈvɛːʁɪŋ]) is the 18th district of Vienna and lies in northwestern Vienna on the edge of the Vienna Woods.
The first mention of Währing is in documents from around 1170, as Warich. The name could plausibly come from Slavic (var for a warm spring) or Germanic (werich for a plot of land that a farmer can work for a day) origins.


Well I agree with you that Germans have some Slavic roots

Almost definitely much more than Poles have German roots.
Founded by the Polabians as Vishemir[2] and later settled by the Germans, Wismar is said to have received its civic rights in 1229, and came into the possession of Mecklenburg in 1301.

The origin of the name Görlitz is derived from the Slavic word for "burned land,"[4] referring to the technique used to clear land for settlement. Zgorzelec and Czech Zhoøelec have the same derivation.

After the migrations, Slavs moved in and Potsdam was probably founded after the 7th century as a settlement of the Heveller centred on a castle. It was first mentioned in a document in 993AD as Poztupimi, when Emperor Otto III gifted the territory to the Quedlinburg Abbey, then led by his aunt Matilda.

Cottbus. The settlement was established in the 10th century, when Sorbs erected a castle on a sandy island in the River Spree. The first recorded mention of the town's name was in 1156. In the 13th century German settlers came to the town and thereafter lived side-by-side with the Sorbs.

Bautzen. The first written evidence of the existence of the city was in 1002. In 1018 the Peace of Bautzen was signed between the German king Henry II and the Polish prince Boleslaus I. The Treaty left Bautzen (Budziszyn in modern Polish) under Polish rule.

The region around Zwickau was settled by Slavs as early as the 7th century. The name Zwickau is probably a Germanisation of the Sorbian toponym ©wikawa, which derives from Svaroziè, the Slavic Sun and fire god.[7] In the 10th century, German settlers began arriving and the native Slavs were Christianized.

The name Güstrow comes from the Polabian Gu¹èerov and means lizard place.[2]In 1219 the Wendish castle Güstrowe was built at the place, the renaissance castle stands nowadays.

The place name Gera originally referred to the area of the Elster river valley where the city now stands. The name most likely[original research?] originated before the European migration period - the Slavic people who first settled the area during the 8th century adopted the name. The first known documentary mention of Gera dates from 995.

Bamberg. During the post-Roman centuries of Germanic migration and settlement, the region afterwards included in the Diocese of Bamberg was inhabited for the most part by Slavs.

Kamenz (Sorbian Kamjenc) is a Lusatian town in eastern Saxony, Germany, with a population of 18,243, and is part of the Bautzen district.
Plauen. The town was founded by Polabian Slavs in the 12th century and was passed to the Kingdom of Bohemia in 1327.

Lyzko  
6 Jul 2013  #72

We're all a bunch o' mutts, only some of us have different degrees of muttiness:-)lol
MIXED BREEDS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #73

Other interesting facts:

Adolf Hitler, Chancellor of Germany from 1933 to 1945, is believed to belong to Y-DNA Haplogroup E1b1b1 (E-M35), an haplogroup which originated in East Africa about 22,400 years BP.

Nicholas II of Russia has been predicted as having an R1b haplotype.

I've heard that German Nazies believed that South of Germany is not enough pure in racial sense. Therefore they sent troops from Prussia region,

to Bavaria "to improve purity of local population". Maybe somebody could find a ref. for those events? If we take in account higher percentage of Slavic blood and lighter pigmentation amongst North-Eastern Germans, I have suspicion that Nordic ideal of Hitler was in reality based in high degree on blond and blue-eyed Slavic type...
Lyzko  
6 Jul 2013  #74

Only let's PRETTY PLEASE DON'T get onto that submental tangent that Hitler, Wagner ad nauseum were partly Jewish, 'cuz it's all been proven by respectable folks to be nothing other than tabloid rot!

Thank you
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #75

I do not know what you are talking about but all citations highlighted in bold are taken by me directly from Wikipedia.
Lyzko  
6 Jul 2013  #76

Oh, well 'scuse me, if Wiki-Allmighty says so, then it must be true, huh? Kindly spare us!

I can only pity the poor student who relies on the Internet rather than good ol' fashioned brick-and-mortar bookreading for their info.
Wulkan Activity: - / 3,099
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #77

Well I agree with you that Germans have some Slavic roots. :-)

Mostly Polish roots to be exact.
Lyzko  
6 Jul 2013  #78

The intermarriage between Teutons and Slavs dates back as far practically as recorded history, certainly as long as homosapiens have inhabited the area:-) Examening the appearance of Northeastern Germans especially clearly confirms this, whereas Southwesterners, i.e Badenese and further north, many Rheinlanders, look positively Celtic.
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #79

The intermarriage between Teutons and Slavs dates back as far practically as recorded history, certainly as long as homosapiens have inhabited the area

Strangely, many people in Germany still believe or at least express their mind on forums (usually their name is Andreas) that Germans and Slavs belong to different races of people. What is defined as "a race" by the way?
Lyzko  
6 Jul 2013  #80

Same distinction between a "race" and a "nation", as between a language vs. a dialect: the former is simply the latter, only with an army and a navy behind itLOL

Slavs and Germans belong to the Indo-European (variously known as "Indo-Germanic", also "Indo-Aryan"!) family; they are both of the Caucasian race, sharing the language group common to both, yet they are different nations:-)
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #81

Mostly Polish roots to be exact.

By the 7th century, Slavic peoples are believed to have settled in the Brandenburg area. The Slavs expanded from the east, possibly driven from their homelands in present-day Ukraine and perhaps Belarus by the invasions of the Huns and Avars.

In any case many Sorbian words and names are intelligible to me through Russian.

The name Zwickau is probably a Germanisation of the Sorbian toponym ©wikawa, which derives from Svaroziè, the Slavic Sun and fire god.

Svarog was one of the main pagan gods of the Eastern Slavs as well.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svarog

The name is traditionally derived from the local Wendish ruler, Prince Ratibor of the Polabians, who was nicknamed Ratse.

There was also Ratibor of Kiev, one of the nobles close to prince.

Liubice ("lovely") was founded on the banks of the river Trave about four kilometres north of the present-day city centre of Lübeck

Liubit' means "to love" in Russian.

The name of the city, Graz (see the Slavic settlement Grad),

Grad is archaic for city in Russian ( now - Gorod).

The first mention of Währing is in documents from around 1170, as Warich. The name could plausibly come from Slavic (var for a warm spring)

Var - boiled water and Varit' - to boil are words in Russian.

Etc.
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
6 Jul 2013  #82

Interesting, how treatment of Slavs by some German Nazi would change if he/she would discover he/she has
some Slavic ancestor?

Ten years ago, Passarino et al. released a paper focusing on the origins and spread of R1a1a (back then known as Eu19). They did this by studying the frequency and diversity of the 49a,f/TaqI haplotype 11, which appeared to be linked to R1a1a. The conclusion was that R1a1a most likely originated in present day Ukraine, and expanded from there into Europe and Asia.

The news just in, courtesy of the R1a and Subclades Y-DNA Project, is that the Z283 SNP ties together the three major European R1a1a clades. These are R1a1a1-Z284, largely found in Scandinavia, R1a1a1-M458, characteristic of Western Slavic and Eastern German populations, and R1a1a1-Z280, of Central and Eastern Europe.




Wulkan Activity: - / 3,099
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #83

Mostly Polish roots to be exact.

By the 7th century, Slavic peoples are believed to have settled in the Brandenburg area. The Slavs expanded from the east, possibly driven from their homelands in present-day Ukraine and perhaps Belarus by the invasions of the Huns and Avars.

I'm talking about the times after that
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #84

The Polabian name for Lüneburg is Glain (written as Chlein or Glein in older German sources), probably derived from glaino (Slavonic: glina) which means "clay". In spite of its lucrative saltworks, Lüneburg was originally subordinated to the town of Bardowick only a few miles to the north. Bardowick was older and was an important trading post for the Slavs.

Luckenwalde. The former Slavic settlement of Lugkin was conquered by Margrave Conrad Wettin of Meissen in the course of the 1147 Wendish Crusade.

The Polabian name for Uelzen is Wilcaus (spelled Wiltzaus in older German reference material), possibly derived from wilca or wilsa (< Slavic *olã¹a) 'alder'.

Map of Germany with some cities and towns founded by Slavs in red. Do not afraid, red in this case doesn't mean communists.



4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
Joined: 15 Aug 2011 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #85

map of Russia with some places where Germans Poles and other nationals were enjoying Russian hospitality. "Do not afraid", red in this case, definitely doesn't mean, they were communists.



Zibi Activity: - / 336
Joined: 19 Jul 2012 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #86

4 eigner

exactly. But as we all know Vlad.... would prefer everyone would forget all about the past and be friends with Russia
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
Joined: 1 Jun 2008 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #87

The Polabian name for Lüneburg is Glain (written as Chlein or Glein in older German sources), probably derived from glaino (Slavonic: glina) which means "clay". In spite of its lucrative saltworks, Lüneburg was originally subordinated to the town of Bardowick only a few miles to the north. Bardowick was older and was an important trading post for the Slavs.

If I follow your line of thinking, Tyniec should revert to the Irish because its name has Celtic origins.
Vlad1234 Activity: 8 / 214
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #88

map of Russia with some places where Germans Poles and other nationals were enjoying Russian hospitality.

Needs to take school lessons of geography. It's map of USSR, not Russia, naïve...

I would want to visit Lubeck. The city which was founded by my linguistic relatives and named in honour of "love" is
must to visit.

Tyniec should revert to the Irish because its name has Celtic origins.

I think, believe of Poles that name of this town is of Celtic origins could be wrong.
"Tyn" is word of Slavic origin and means "fence". Russian and Belorussian word
тын «тин», Old Russian тинъ as well as Polish tyn, ancient Slavic тынъ, Proto-Slavic
tynъ is present in majority of Slavic languages and could be as well a borrowing from
Germanic languages. But could be also borrowing by Germanic from Slavic.
uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%BD
No Celtic origins of this word found. Polish "researches" constantly tend to find Germanic
and Celtic "roots" in Poland wherever there aren't.
Wulkan Activity: - / 3,099
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #89

You didn't even get what he was trying to say and yet we have to see another sick conclusion of yours.
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
Joined: 1 Jun 2008 ♂
 
7 Jul 2013  #90

He reminds me of this Serbian who once was on the forum and declared just about every city in Europe to be of Serb/Slavic origin :)

Maybe he came back under a different name :)




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How come Poles like Russians but not Germans?
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