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The Polish Blame Culture!


Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Apr 2010 #151
None, Sok, exactly! Britain helped to win the war for the Allies, isn't that enough?

Not for Poland who was the member of the allies in name only, it did not receive any moral recognition, there were not even token gestures.

Well, you should have gone to the Patent Office in Munich. Many of the best inventions of modern times are Scottish and have I heard any thanks for that? Not really!

Were they crucial for the defence of your country? Poles took 7 years to crack the Enigma, without it the Brits could never win the battle of Atlantic, without polish support UK would have fallen.

Our thanks? The british movie "Enigma" not only omits the fact that british intelligence was only capable of success due to enormous polish support but make the single Pole in the movie a traitor, sorry Sean but no amount of your leftist bullcrap will make it any less of a deal, its a f*cking big deal for us.

We bled for your country, we contributed to its safety defence and welfare, without our scientists and pilots UK would have fallen and even today we're being insulted by british movies and people like Shelleys or you try to lecture us about moving on and forgetting how UK spat us in the face for all our efforts.

No one is forgetting anytime soon.

Common Brits helped out and they are the ones that matter, given that there were around 58 million of them. The government is but a corrupt entity.

Common Brits today raised in spirit, why do you think Shelleys made such a thread?

She's not Harry or Sjam, she's not anti-Polish she's just raised in that bullsh*t leftist society you call the british nation, no wonder she can't appreciate the weight and importance of remembering stuff like that.
time means 5 | 1,310
28 Apr 2010 #152
without it the Brits could never win the battle of Atlantic, without polish support UK would have fallen.

Fao SOK

users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmauboats.htm
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Apr 2010 #153
Fao SOK

Cracking enigma was crucial to plotting the paths of the wolf packs, without the 7 years of polish work (and Poles had the best mathematicians in Europe at the time) Brits just wouldnt have the time (even with the mountains of data provided by Poland it took them a year).

No cracked enigma = no convoys. No convoys = UK starved into capitulation.

While we can argue whether the polish airmen contribution was crucial to the survival of RAF the fact that without polish crack of the enigma UK would be lost is unconditional.

Not only did Poles crack the Enigma but provided Żygalski' Sheets, developed by the polish cryptographer perforated sheets critical in operation the code cracking operations in Bletchley.

Even better he along with Rajewski built a working copy of Enigma which also went to UK.

The battle of Atlantic was won by british and american navies but the victory was impossible without the polish contribution.

Also the captured enigma would be useless to brits without the polish data, it took seven years to break an inferior version, how long would it take Brits without polish devices and research?
time means 5 | 1,310
28 Apr 2010 #154
Also the captured enigma would be useless to brits without the polish data

Fao Sok

British and French Intelligence already received three-rotor Enigma replicas from Polish Secret Service, as early as 1939. In reality, the four-rotor Enigma and its internal wiring was obtained by cryptanalysis on intercepted messages and captured code books. The breakthrough in Shark was established without possessing an actual M4 Enigma. The secret and infamous U-boat and weather ship boardings were performed by the British Navy, and their primary goal was to capture the Kurzsignale, Wetterkurzschlussel and Enigma code books, and not to seize an Enigma machine.
Harry
28 Apr 2010 #155
How those instructions FOR USING the Enigma machine were helpful in cracking the code again?
Don't try to add weight to an otherwise flimsy argument.

How interesting to see you completely ignore the key facts which show that, as usual, you are full of shiit. The key was the daily keys which allowed Rejewski to achieve one of the most important breakthroughs in cryptologic history by using elementary group theory to solve the Enigma wiring independently of the plugboard connections. Rejewski said " it was very important that the months [covered in the daily-key tables] happened to be September and October, in other words, periods that belonged to two different quarters [of the year. This is] because... the key consisted of several elements [and] one element of the key was changed only once a quarter. Namely, the order of the [rotors].... [A]t that time they were changed once a quarter. [S]ince September and October belonged to two different quarters, in September and October the orders of the [rotors] were different. [With] the method that I had been using to find the [wiring] in a [rotor]... I could only solve the [far] right-hand [rotor], the one that revolved one place every time [a key was pressed]. The point is that, thanks to the keys for September, I could solve the [rotor] that was in the far right-hand position in September. And since I also had the keys for October, using the same method I was later able to find the [wiring] in the [rotor] that was at the [far] right in October. [T]he third [rotor] and... the [reflector] now weren't so difficult... I managed to find them by other methods."

No one is forgetting anytime soon.

You managed to forget very quickly that tens of thousands of Poles who fought against Britain during WWII were given everything that they needed for a new life in Britain after the war ended. And that hundreds of thousands of Poles who didn't want to return to Poland after WWII for whatever reason were given everything they needed for a new life in Britain. It is lucky for them that Britain at the time didn't know that the nation of Poland was capable of producing scum like you:no doubt if they had known, it would have been all Poles back to Poland as a 1945 Christmas present to the nation.
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #156
How interesting to see you completely ignore the key facts which show that, as usual, you are full of shiit.

I'm bored of entertaining your superiority complex. I know that losing every argument with me is aggravating. Take your grudges into the random abuse thread and relieve your stress there.
Harry
28 Apr 2010 #157
I'm bored of entertaining your superiority complex. I know that losing every argument with me is aggravating.

So to you me posting facts, you disagreeing with them, and me then posting evidence which supports the facts I posted and show that you posted nothing but lies is an example of you winning an argument? Well, I suppose that that level of intelligence would explain why you are given to making such stupid claims as 'Poles were used as slave labour by the British'.

It is rather telling that your post contains no facts or comments on the topic but is instead addressed solely at me. Really shows the strength of your position.
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #158
'Poles were used as slave labour by the British'.

Except I never claimed that, but you are going to repeat that in another threads anyway regardless ... :)

So to you me posting facts,

Harry, we discussed Enigma and parade invitation to death already. This thread is not about Enigma. Bring something fresh to the table beyond your regular anti-Polish abuse so maybe I'll be interested.
Harry
28 Apr 2010 #159
Except I never claimed that, but you are going to repeat that in another threads anyway regardless ... :)

You actually said

There were camps for some of them (higher in hierarchy) but most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) were send to Canada where they had to work basically as slaves on farms for two years before they were granted full residency in Canada. Yeah, SO much for British appreciation.

Harry, we discussed Enigma and parade invitation to death already.

But still you lie about both. That is so very pathetic.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
28 Apr 2010 #160
Well, that's how Beëlzebubibi usually acts when she doesn't agree to stuff, Harry. You should know by now. She doesn't contribute at all, merely posting how smart and intelligent she thinks she is towards ppl she doesn't agree with. Don't waste energy, just a Canadian bimbo :))

Fao Sok

Correctly, my son. There was indeed some Polish research concerning the Chiffriermaschine Enigma, but it wasn't as conclusive as being stated here. The breakthrough indeed came with the capture of the codebooks.

As for the rest of the claims that without Polish help victory for the Allies wasn't pssbl, that's plain nonsense. Of course, the Poles contributed and they are honoured for that, maybe not in Britain, but for certain where I come from and in other countries as well.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens, tiens)
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #161
they are honoured for that, maybe not in Britain, but for certain where I come from and in other countries as well.

That's kinda the whole point of this discussion, Einstein. Thank you. I'll forgive you now for the rest of the nonsense you wrote :) my favorite deranged little liberal nitwit on the PF.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
28 Apr 2010 #162
That's kinda the whole point of this discussion,

Stop nagging about it, then. This thread is about the Polish blame culture, which in fact is true. Poles allow themselves to blame everything and everybody for their mishap. That's what this thread is about, not about Britains failure to glorify the immortal Polish heroes.

And about my nonsense; what useful contribution have you made, Beëlzebubibi?

>^..^<

M-G (damn, coffeemaker leaks!)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #163
Sok, this is your third 'peculiarity', referring to me as a lefty. I'm no such thing. I can sympathise with some of that thinking but it doesn't make me that.

Many were crucial for the development of our country and the world, Sok. Just type Scottish inventions into Wiki and you'll see. Haven't you learned that people are ungrateful? Geez, some Poles are amongst the most ungrateful people I have met so it works both ways.

When you stop coming to expect things from others and saying thank you, you might win more respect.

Many of your people seem to like Britain enough to go there! Strange that ;)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
28 Apr 2010 #164
lefty. I'm no such thing

What's bad about being a lefty? What's wrong with caring about your (weaker) fellow human being, something the right-wing is not particularly known for, isn't it?

>^..^<

M-G (it's gonna be a cheap coffeemaker this time, I tell ya!)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #165
I understand that, M-G, but I don't like labels and I can show compassion without a sticker or badge, thanks!
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #166
Poles allow themselves to blame everything and everybody for their mishap. That's what this thread is about, not about Britains failure to glorify the immortal Polish heroes.

Nope, that's not it. We are fully aware of our shortcomings and our failures. We are not looking to be glorified but simply acknowledged for our input and we are still denied that. For generations after WW2 we were forbidden to even mention our WW2 contribution so now it's time to get some recognition. Why not?

And about my nonsense;

Yep, I checked: it's still a nonsense. And that weird moniker you invented doesn't help either.

Do you still grow weed on your balcony and like to bother Popes?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
28 Apr 2010 #167
I understand that, M-G, but I don't like labels and I can show compassion without a sticker or badge, thanks!

Of course. I was just being curious, that's all ;)

Edit: I care for my weaker fellow human being, that must make me a lefty: that's why I read Beëlzebubibi's posts in the first place, because I feel sorry for her. It's ok that she doesn't understand my moniker. I completely understand that.

Grin.

>^..^<

M-G (Italian coffeemakers are fine, they're freaking expensive and leak just as quick as the other ones - Cookworks for a tenner from Argos is going to be my next brand coffeemaker)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #168
Well done! There, better now Bzibby? ;)
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #169
Don't get snippy :)

and what about that parade?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #170
Sorry, we don't do 65-year postponements ;) ;)
Harry
28 Apr 2010 #171
For generations after WW2 we were forbidden to even mention our WW2 contribution so now it's time to get some recognition. Why not?

Lying about things is no way to get recognition for them.

and what about that parade?

Poland was invited. Poland didn't bother to show up. Poles who served under the self-appointed government-in-exile were also invited. They refused to turn up unless they got a better invitation than the USA got. Poles have lied about it ever since. Deal with it.
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #172
Sorry, we don't do 65-year postponements ;) ;)

But you can always ask Queenie to say something nice, couldn't you? :)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
28 Apr 2010 #173
We are not looking to be glorified but simply acknowledged for our input

In NL they are being acknowledged for sure. There are memorials and monuments for the brave Polish soldiers and the ppl have never forgotten them. During the Cold War there was a steady stream of help for PL from NL during wintertimes.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2010 #174
Stalin's position on the Polish border was supported by Poles such as General Sikorski.

Actually no, it was not. whenever the issue of borders came up he constantly refused to discuss when Russia was in a position of strength, he was desperate to maintain the integrity of Poland's easter borders.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #175
Look, the people remember them and that counts more than governments hellbent on glory. The British government has been a stuck up and self-serving institution for such a long time so why let it get to you? They are the kind of creatures you find under rocks and stones. Be proud of your own achievements!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2010 #176
The UK treated Poles so well that even Poles who had fought against the UK were given everything that they needed

would you care to elaborate? i have never heard of this before. And could you please post some links.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Apr 2010 #177
Oh, I didn't read it carefully enough. I think Harry is having a laugh with the 'fighting alongside the Germans' part. He is right to say that they were well received and were given employment in the UK after WWII. One of my old neighbours was Polish.
Harry
28 Apr 2010 #178
whenever the issue of borders came up he constantly refused to discuss when Russia was in a position of strength, he was desperate to maintain the integrity of Poland's easter borders.

Which explains why he was so disliked by Polish groups in the USA and labeled an 'appeaser' books.google.com/books?id=rXzHHZN4mmcC&pg=PA89&dq=sikorski+chicago and wrote a memo to US President Roosevelt in December 1942 in which he anticipated losses in the east and proposed that the Polish-German border should be pushed much further to the west, with Poland occupying "the zone up to the Oder and Lusatian Neisse with bridegeheads on the left bank". Oh, sorry, there I go again trying to introduce a Pole to the idea of 'historical facts', silly me!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2010 #179
One of my old neighbours was Polish.

I certainly hope so, I was going to say....

Heard about the latest story involving Brown, funnily enough it involves eastern Europeans, it could be his breaking moment. fingers crossed. lol
Bzibzioh
28 Apr 2010 #180
Poland was invited.

I'll bet you think you are funny. You are the only one.

The British government has been a stuck up and self-serving institution for such a long time so why let it get to you?

I know they are really obstructed institution. Took them how many years to apologize to their own children being shipped out of UK? So I'm not holding my breath.

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