Anti-Slavic racism in history

We usually associate anti-Slavic racism with Germany, with 19th century Kulturkampf, with Drang nach Osten and the like. But precisely to show that it was not only the Germans, we can quote a text by Arnold Toynbee - one of the most important and best-known British historians, educated at Oxford, who between the 1930s and the 1960s published A Study of History, a classic work of historiosophy. He was truly a man who undoubtedly drank his tea impeccably at five o'clock, a gentleman beyond question. And now, it is precisely this gentleman who writes about the Slavs. What does he say?

'At this late hour of European barbarism, the Slavs were finally flushed out of their hiding places by the nomadic Avars. The Avars lived by cattle-herding. Upon entering cultivated lands, these pastoralists discovered that the proper local livestock consisted of living human beings-namely, peasants. They therefore set about, quite reasonably, to the herding of human creatures. And they found the long-desired object in the Slavs. They drove them into herds and distributed them in a wide arc around the Hungarian Plain.'

And thus Slavicdom made its debut in history - late, and in a humiliating fashion. I repeat: this is not the text of an SS officer, but of a man who truly drank his tea superbly at five o'clock, and who, I believe, had more than once visited Buckingham Palace. Really, if this had been written by Hermann Göring, the matter would be clear enough. But it was not written by Göring. So there is this tendency to perceive the Slavs...

More about anti-Slavic racism in history, and the attempts to use it to justify partitions, conquest and subjugation of Slavic people, in the Radio Naukowe podcast about the origin of Slavs with prof. Marcin Wołoszyn...

radionaukowe.pl/podcast/prof-marcin-woloszyn/

I mean... strictly speaking it is not so far off the mark.

Maybe the Avars don't deserve all the blame, but some belongs also to the Tatars and Turks and others.... but the problem certainly existed.

The problem being Slavic polities having extortionate tributes placed upon them, having their populations constantly raided for slaves (to the point that the Western word for slave is etymologically related to Slavs). Constantly forced to migrate under pressures of war or famine.

Centuries spent in subjugation. For Rus' - under the Golden Horde. For the Balkans - under the Greeks and then Ottomans. For the Slovenes and Czechs - under the Germans.

Either God hates Slavs, or there is something indeed that is the matter.

It is not about whether or not certain historical analogies can be drawn between Toynbee's exaggerated account and actual events.

It is about the unmistakably dehumanising ("livestock," "herds," "human creatures") language - why do you think Brits here find it so easy to dehumanise not only Russian soldiers but Russians in general? They had great, Oxford-educated, 5-o'clock tea drinking, predecessors in all that. The civilizational bias, especially toward Slavs and steppe peoples, is very clearly visible if you scratch the surface of British gentlemen.


Where is Crow when you need him?

The Slavs existed as free peoples centuries before the word "slave" became associated with Slavs by western retards. Slověne/Slavs are attested by Late Antiquity (VII century) whilst the idiotic semantic shift of sclavus = slave occurs later, mainly in Carolingian, Venetian, and Islamic slave markets (IX - XI c.). So, this is not the origin of the word, as you well know. Main scholarly explanations of Slav / Slověninъ derive from: slovo ("word, speech") - those who speak intelligibly (contrast with němьcь - "mute ones", i.e. Germans) or slava ("glory, fame") in some interpretations. Sorry for stating the obvious, but that's for the benefit of slightly retarded westerners who might read this thread.


We are too kind-hearted. We could never be as cruel as the Westerners. Sure, we had our pogroms here and there, but we would never have come up with the industrial holocaust "solution". Sure, we conquered many lands and peoples, but we would never get the idea to call them untermenschen and manufacture soap from their dead bodies. Sure, we exploited conquered peoples economically but I don't think we cut off hands of six-year-olds if their fathers failed to meet quotas at work (and that's late 19th early 20th century!).

Our kind Slavic hearts have always been our undoing. Perhaps we should learn some more cruelty from Anglo-Saxons, Franks and other Germanic peoples?

On second thoughts, there are two Slavic nations who exhibited not unsignificant amount of cruelty in history. Minor nations, in the greater history of Slavia, but still. One of these nations is hated by Crow, and the other by this panslavic retard Kania. Hm... perhaps God indeed hates us.

I wrote about this before, and snapshotted a bit of relevant text from a journal of a Russian diplomat in China in the 19th century.

Attaching it below. In general - it's a fact that many of the "gentlemen" are rabid racists. Seems kind of almost too boring to discuss.

The proletariat may have "sharp" opinions, but they can at least be engaged with. The middle class, bless its heart, is the only place where people believe in the necessity of being nice. The rich - finally - view you as they do.

I think what protects them, in England, is that they don't let anybody close. You can go to some charity event with them, some race, some fancy dinner - but you'll never be invited into their circle fully.

That is, outsiders don't often see the racism being displayed.

America is more democratic in this sense, and the people a bit more naive. Not as polished and polite as the Brits - so they'll just tell you.

"You're a nice guy, but you're not like us."


My man Torq... no need to reach for "untermenschen" and "soap" - look at Gaza.

Don't want to look at Gaza - then look at what they write on Twitter and Telegram to the wives of fallen Russian soldiers: "Did you receive your refrigerator, wh0re? Don't worry, soon someone will order your ass on russianwives.com"

Ukrainian women write to these people, "Hey, appreciate the support - but maybe a bit less ugliness towards Slavic women?" These heroes usually don't know what to respond.

-//-

Our women are wh0res. Our men are sacks of meat for whom "death is a biological event". Our children - future wh0res and future meatbags.

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It's right on the mark. European civilisation east of Charlemagne developed relatively late and relatively slowly. As did industry centuries later. The renaissance and enlightenment were also largely elsewhere.

As for slavery, every culture did it back then.



Why do youy think he had tea an hour late?

"Slav = Slave".....can only have been the Brits....its english! :)

Slave is an English word. Its root isn't


Don't be daft. It came to English from Medieval Latin, via French. The Italian word Ciao comes from the same root. The English were not enslaving Slavs in the 9th Century. You'd have to look closer to home for that.

No żesz kurwa ich w pizdę jebana mać, as Marcus Tullius Cicero used to say. 😡


Shut up, son of a Brit.


I am utterly indifferent to the precise hour at which the perfidious offspring of Albion choke down their repellent concoctions. *pouts*


The funny/scary thing about WW2 is that you were our enemies and they were our allies. What could possibly have gone wrong???

Yet you mentioned it twice in an hour. I've only heard the 5pm thing mentioned in PL. Nowhere else.


I'm there now. Listening to bellringing practice from the small local church opposite. The church tower is older then Poiand. If it was still daylight I could look out of the window at the garden back wall. Older than any surviving structure in Poland except for stone circles and burial mounds.


Well, you could have become part of a 'superior' civilisation that regarded you all as untermensch.

Because Poland is a land of wisdom: Brits drink tea at 5pm, Germans don't even move their little finger after Feierabend, and every Frenchman buys a fresh baguette each morning and carries it under his sweaty armpit.

Anything else you would like to learn about European nations - just ask.


Apparently you have to educate yourself about Wielka Lechia - a vast Slavic empire that existed thousands of years ago.


Instead, we were incorporated into a Stalinist communist dystopia - an arrangement quietly accepted by our British "allies".

Nor do we while drinking tea. The finger thing is for 1890s cockneys with pretensions.


All those inventions, great literature, legal system, education, art, engineering, and a built environment. Almost as mighty as the 'Songhai Empire" the ruins of ancient Zimbabwe or the pilot episode for Game of Thrones.


Run by Slavs. You should have tried our form of Socialism instead.

Hardly.

Stalin was Georgian, and majority of his Politburo were Jews with changed names. Typical.


It's not like we had any choice.

And trump's a Scotsman. Most of the people in the system were Slavs.


All names are to an extent changed. Humans didn't come down from the trees with names like Threaplethwaite or Myszczyszyn. They were r*SSians, regardless of their granny's religion.

Victims. Most of the victims of the system were Slavs.


Nonsense. How typical of a Brit to blame everything on the benevolent and kindhearted Slavs.

I take my revenge on the British daily by watching BBC through VPN without paying a single penny for TV license. I consider it British reparations for their perfidy.

*off to re-watch All Creatures Great and Small again*

Be they Russians, then their grandchildren would not heap all their trauma at Russia's doorstep.

Then they would instead practice some greater degree of introspection.

That would be a first for both the ambitious and the masses. Especially the ambitious middle class.


And the perps.


So a r*SSian or Pole of the faith of Moses isn't a r*SSian or Pole then?

Cattle, herds and livestock - as your man Toynbee would call them - mere tools, without agency, in the hands of their Georgian and Jewish overlords. Alas.


Well, in majority of cases even if they are Polish or Russian citizens, it wouldn't exactly be accurate to call them Slavs, would it? So, they were Russian citizens, sure, but not exactly Russians. Citizenship, nationality, ethnicity - different things.

A great man, albeit somewhat conservative. His granddaughter writes well.


Do you beleive that?


Therefore Poles and r*SSians.

... otherwise I would have to accept the fact that Slavs aided the creation of a horrible totalitarian system responsible for the deaths of millions of people worldwide. Can't have that. It's them Jews.


It's a bit more complicated than that, isn't it?

Depends on identity. If someone says they're a Pole or a Manxman or a Turk, that's what they are. There are no gatekeepers.

If people are excluded, or othered they will deal with that. Low level crime from some, politics from others who are better educated and more able.


People created it. A revolution of hope to begin with then rule by the greedy middle classes.

How many of them still refer to themselves as Polish Jews or Russian Jews?

They are now only firmly American or British.

This shows that the Russiannness or Polishness was relatively easy to cast aside.

This is what I think grates for Russians and Poles.

Correct. Assimilated Polish and Russian Jews properly consider themselves Poles and Russians.

@Lyzko

What are you on about?

British and American Jews - once fully assimilated - still call themselves Russian Jews or Polish Jews?

No.

They say instead, "my grandparents were from Russia".

Implied are pogroms, bestial antisemitism, and an overall sense of relief to be far away from Russians and Poles.

Indeed.

However, as Bobko rightly observes, the overwhelming majority of those "Poles and Russians of the Mosaic faith" no longer regard themselves as either Polish or Russian. This raises the question of whether they ever genuinely did.


Ah, people - sinful all alike; none righteous, no, not one. Remarkable how everything always seems to circle back to the Bible.

Point is that the ultra-assimilated Jews, particularly from the larger capitals such as Warsaw etc. felt themselves as Poles and Russian nationals, their Judaism being their faith rather than their nationality, similar in that way to the German, French, Italian, British, especially the American-born Jews!

There's somethiung in that however it's a peripheral. Peoiple wouldn't hacve left if they hadn't been othered so much.


It's the people who didn't leave a century ago and who stayed that mattered. Anyway, you can say the same about people of Polish descent of any faith in the UK or elsewhere. Some are highly invested in their heritage, some don't know where Marie Curie came from or what a golabek is.

@Torq
A very good point.Some did and some didn't is the best answer I can give, same as Muslims in western europe now.


Don't forget that Poland was the first country to ban pogroms against the Jews.
Another good point.

Depends on.the Polish or Russian Jews, Torq.
The less assimilated the Jews, such as those from shtettl backgrounds, this is certainly true.
Again for wealthy urbanites, far less the case.

Furthermore, highly assimilated authors such as Tuwim or Rozewicz, were Poles first and foremost. Same for other prominent professionals like film directord Roman Polanski and Agnieszka Holland among others, the director of "Ida" for example.

Very true,the wealthy urbanites were proper Poles,the ones from the shettl's were just Jews.