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Why Polish aren't white??


Patrycja19 Activity: 63 / 2,703
Joined: 31 Oct 2006 ♀
 
22 Feb 2009  #31

often from white Americans,

there are select few who are not the whole representation of the united states just
as there are select few who are not the whole representation of poland- like the
doctors you described who want payment for services to save someones life, when
the whole reason to become a doctor is for that reason alone.. to save lives and
preserve life, but of course people become blind to humanity.. greed takes over and
Viola, you have idiots who dont represent everyone, you just happened to be around
the wrong people at the wrong time.

even those of us who are American citizens and born here, someone asks your
nationality ( besides the obvious) ethnically, if you say Polish, the automatic reaction
*oh, your a pollack* and when I was younger I resented it and didnt want to be
Polish because I thought it was a bad thing, but then I grew out of it , learned that
this was just another idiot talking out of his arse and that I should respect my heritage
and not worry about the small stuff. much more important things to worry about.

There's no other way to talk to someone who obviously is a troll -

reading the above as I have looked at her posts and its obvious that she is just
speaking english ( broken) and doing the best she can to make her statement that
she is not a prostitute and works in a office.. nothing wrong with her outwardly
stating this as all women who feel the need to justify their stance when it comes to
someone calling them names.. especially when they dont deserve it.

my opinion is that you jumped the gun to quickly and are accusing her of something
she clearly is not. you picking on a woman, does that make you feel more like a man?

back to topic.. thank you :)

Czarnobog Activity: - / 33
Joined: 25 Jan 2009 ♂
 
23 Feb 2009  #32

many idiots in America think that Polish people, and not just them but ALL foreigners from Europe are not white, simply Polish, or German, or Russian

They are actually correct. In the US, Polish immigrants have not always been able to swiftly pass off as "white." Polish identity has variously been described as "probationary white" or "off-white", especially before WWII. There are sociological journals that in the 1920s use the cateogies Slavic (which is "technically" the "race type" for Polish people), next to such categories as White, African, Hebrew and Asian.

There are many reasons for that. One of the main one being that whiteness was deployed as a social concept by Western/Northern Europeans. It was used as an ideological tool of colonialism, and Poland did not partake in colonial adventures and as such had no claim to "true whiteness." The same holds true for other Eastern and Southern European powers, and this also explains why many of them are also on the margins of whiteness.

The other major reason is that race has a lot to do with social status. Polish immigrants "everyone knows" are good for cheap, manual work. They typically do not occupy high places on the social prestige scale. Whiteness is a flexible concept that can expand to include or contract to exclude almost anyone.

Race is always a complex issue because it is an ill-defined human construct

Exactly. Race is created through various scientific discourses that name and analyze it. There is a story of a ship's captain that I think is worth retelling here. It is set in the 17th century. The ship is departing from a port in England and once it set sails, the captain gathers his crew in order to give them a speech. He tells them that they "are all white men now". The captain along with 18th century anthropology, natural history, philosophy, criminology and a collection of many other sciences became preoccupied with the differences between "races." They start talking about it, naming it, seeing it. Race is an excellent example of the persistent and real nature of social constructs.

I am considered white by all of my friends/co-workers.

I am and am not. Some people take me as white, some ask me if I am, some tell me I am "off-white."

ps...I've been here for 1 year now....i have seen blue eyed, blond polish people...i have seen polish people darker than me!!!...what gives!

I don't know where this assumption that Poland is a Nordic country comes from? Does it come from the region? It makes no sense because Poland is a country that has a history of interaction with Tartar, Turkish, Ukrainian, Jewish, Gypsy and many other people. Some of my ancestors are among these people.

Polish are Actually Descended from West African Hausa Tribe

I've never heard of this. Where did you get this from?
southern Activity: 76 / 7,116
Joined: 17 May 2007 ♂
 
23 Feb 2009  #33

Why Polish arn't white??

If Polish aren't white,Obama is an Anglo.
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,760
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
23 Feb 2009  #34

Newsflash: Louis Farrakhan is white and will speak for the KKK soon ;)
Randal Activity: 1 / 577
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 ♂
 
23 Feb 2009  #35

Race is an excellent example of the persistent and real nature of social constructs.

And yet it is as real as the human construct of money.
Rafal_1981  
24 Feb 2009  #36

Why Polish arn't white??

It's a manifestation of a racism to be ostentatiously white.
That is why we slowly became darker.
My grandpa skin was white, my father was yellow and my skin is brown...
That's what we hiding from the outside world
Have you recently been to Poland my white bro? ;-]
Czarnobog Activity: - / 33
Joined: 25 Jan 2009 ♂
 
24 Feb 2009  #37

And yet it is as real as the human construct of money

I don't think that race is like money. Money actually refers to something that has a material and quantifiable existence -- namely, socially necessary labor time. Prices are the expression of the value of commodities in the value of the money commodity chosen as a monetary standard. Money may be a universal medium of exchange, but it is also a commodity itself (a gold piece for example, can be traded for some cloth, because both gold and cloth are produced at the same cost).

Race, on the other hand, refers to nothing concrete, material or quantifiable. There is nothing that all members of the "Black" or "Caucasian" race" have in common. However, race operates as if it referred to something concrete and essential. Race, in other words, wants you to believe that it represents something real, when in fact it has no biological, anthropological, or natural scientific grounds for existence. Money has economic activity. Race has nothing.

I will, however, agree that even though it doesn't exist, because people act as race was real, race produces real consequences. So, it is "real" only in this consequential sense. People die on battle grounds for gods, nations and other fictions too.
Randal Activity: 1 / 577
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 ♂
 
24 Feb 2009  #38

because people act as race was real, race produces real consequences...
...nations and other fictions too.

Right. In our world race is as real as the imaginary human constructed political boundaries between nations.
A bird does not know where one country starts and another begins. But you try crossing a border without the proper papers and see what happens.
lecount1973  
25 Feb 2009  #39

I'm going to attempt an answer at this. As for myself, I live in the New York city metropolitan area and I also happen to be a teacher in an all Hispanic inner city neighborhood school. With my immigrant/Polish background, my students relate to me more than say "typical white Americans" - hence considering me more like them - non white, always noting afterward that I'm "Polish". So to sum it up, I think it is the correlation between our immigrant pasts, assimilating, and ultimately becoming American while still holding on proudly to your heritage. As my students always tell me, almost daily, "You're not white, you're Polish!" As they associate "white" to white Americans who did not immigrate here (U.S.A) in the recent past, or ones who have not cared to hold on and cherish their culture.
osiol Activity: 55 / 3,927
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 ♂
 
25 Feb 2009  #40

Angolans are white, according to a Pole I was talking to once. Crazy guy, even thought I was Angolan.
Rafal_1981  
25 Feb 2009  #41

And you're not? Pity, would be more colourful on the forum



freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #42

many idiots in America think that Polish people, and not just them but ALL foreigners from Europe are not white, simply Polish, or German, or Russian etc. that u have to be an American to be white, who started this stupid s**t??

where you got this bulls**t from man? LMAO
To all the good people on this PF who have never been to the USA, don't believe this guy wherever he's from and whoever he might be, he tells you some unreal crap.
HatefulBunch397 Activity: - / 659
Joined: 5 Nov 2008 ♀
 
11 Apr 2009  #43

White peoples are the caucasians.
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #44

Caucasian white, you're right HB
HatefulBunch397 Activity: - / 659
Joined: 5 Nov 2008 ♀
 
11 Apr 2009  #45

Americans do have this strange concept of "white". It's generally Americans raised in the south of scottish and english descent who believe this. Their definition of "white", is a white-anglo-saxon-protestant. You need to have a last name like Smith, Jones or Campbell to qualify.
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,760
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #46

I find that weird that they'd say that. Jones is a Welsh name btw.
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #47

Americans do have this strange concept of "white". It's generally Americans raised in the south of scottish and english descent who believe this. Their definition of "white", is a white-anglo-saxon-protestant.

well, I don't know what kind of area and what kind of people you guys live around but in my 54 years I've never heard anyone saying that Europeans are not white, actually quite the opposite.

I find that weird that they'd say that. Jones is a Welsh name btw.

so tell me where's Flynt from?
HatefulBunch397 Activity: - / 659
Joined: 5 Nov 2008 ♀
 
11 Apr 2009  #48

Welsh would fit their definition, too. The idea being, you have to be:

1. a protestant (not catholic, Catholicism, to them, is a weird pagan cult that worships the Pope)

2. have a name that's identifiable as anglo saxon (their idea of anglo-saxon). Jones, Smith, Campbell, Graham, Lock, Williams, etc.

3. You haved to have light skin too, lol, thin lips and your hair must be straighter than a board. They believe any curls or waves means you are mixed with negro.

Freebird, there are plenty of people in the US who do not consider Italians to be "White".
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #49

hey girl you made my day. I'm having a great time reading your posts LOL

Let's have more fun now
many Americans say that Italians are not white.
are they? LOL
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,760
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #50

Flynt, hmm, Welsh perhaps. HB has some interesting ideas.
HatefulBunch397 Activity: - / 659
Joined: 5 Nov 2008 ♀
 
11 Apr 2009  #51

hey girl you made my day. I'm having a great time reading your posts LOL

Well, yeah, I know it sounds funny but some people actually believe all this. In the southern US, racist wasps are on the lookout for people who might be mixed with black. Since they don't always know the family tree, they look for traits like thicker lips, slight tan and curly or wavy hair instead. They don't want to do business with them or marry them.
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #52

In the southern US

I'm in NC now and still haven't heard this. It must be some other area then :-)
Bratwurst Boy Activity: 5 / 7,945
Joined: 2 Apr 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #53

Americans do have this strange concept of "white". It's generally Americans raised in the south of scottish and english descent who believe this. Their definition of "white", is a white-anglo-saxon-protestant. You need to have a last name like Smith, Jones or Campbell to qualify.

That's the definition of "WASP" not of "White"...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #54

Flynt, hmm, Welsh perhaps. HB has some interesting ideas.

are you saying that my ancestors were Welsh? Please find it out for me, I want to be sure, :-)
and yes she does :-)
HatefulBunch397 Activity: - / 659
Joined: 5 Nov 2008 ♀
 
11 Apr 2009  #55

The ones who think this way tend to be white and in the southern part of the US. There aren't a lot of catholics in the American South, except for Florida or New Orleans, but not so much there, either. Most are protestants.
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,760
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #56

I see where HB is coming from. There are those in Britain who are in such denial that they see whities as only WASPS and nothing more. The purists of yesteryear
Bratwurst Boy Activity: 5 / 7,945
Joined: 2 Apr 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #57

Yeah...as if you are only of the white race when your religion is protestant!
tornado2007 Activity: 11 / 2,278
Joined: 11 Jul 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #58

Well we know that the Germans should know for sure what white is :) Or should i say Austrians :) The Germans WERE picking and killing anything that wasn't white, that probably inlcuded wasps as well :):)
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,760
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #59

I know, it's pretty pathetic but it's true. Remnants of such times are still with us. Many hardcore WASPS tend to like the BNP and numbers may be bigger than we might think.

Have a look, news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7993595.stm
The BNP is winning support for their stance on curbing immigration, albeit somewhat radically.
freebird Activity: 3 / 535
Joined: 8 Jun 2007 ♂
 
11 Apr 2009  #60

I see where HB is coming from

well, I do too but only the very simple and uneducated people would come up ideas like Europeans are not white and there are quite a few Americans, also in the South HB, who exactly know who's who :-)




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Why Polish aren't white??
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