The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Genealogy  % width posts: 635

Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?


pawian 153 | 8,419
2 Jun 2019  #601
What do you mean? Cabbage or need for big words?
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
2 Jun 2019  #602
An expression with which you probably aren't familiar: "I don't chew my cabbage twice" aka "I don't repeat myself!
:-)
abc123
4 Jun 2019  #603
Any other thoughts on this? I might be way off on what I said. It just seems like "Khoroat/Khuruat" is found in a lot of places, and it's strange that it would be found in so many places.
pawian 153 | 8,419
4 Jun 2019  #604
is found in a lot of places, and it's strange that it would be found in so many places.

That`s pure convention, agreed upon by speakers in a community, that relationships are to apply between linguistic items and the outside world, hence so many places you are talking about. .
Crow 143 | 7,520
4 Jun 2019  #605
"Khoroat/Khuruat" is found in a lot of places, and it's strange that it would be found in so many places.

Its not strange. Obviously some languages tend to deform Sarmatian (Serbian) name into Croatian name. Plus, much later, it got its political dimension.

I know. You may say but Croats exist. But do they exist? Wasn`t Poland deluded with communist at least fraction of time and now Poles think differently, return to its natural state? On the other side, one may hope to delude all South-East European Serbs to become Croats. Sure, in that case, Lusatian Serbs would be also convert into Croats, just to make the point and create one new world deprived of Serbs and then also Slavs. Why? Because Croat delusion goes with Germanic identity, not with Slavic. Replace then Polish `legends about Sarmatians` into `legends about Croatians` and you proved to Poles then they are Germanics in origin, so they should return to ``their identity`` and ``Croats will show them way``.

Or be reasonable. Think this way. Serbs and Croats share same genetics. Serbs and Croats share language that is since known time known as Serbian language and it is Shtocavian Slavic dialect. Forget Serbo-Croatian or Croatian language. Those are political constructs. Now, those who started with Croatian nation said themselves, Croatian are Chakavian or Kajkavian dialects. Then linguists said those are mixtures of Slovenian and Serbian language or deformed Slovenian. Then you also have that thing that Vatican and many other sources used name of Croat/Hrvat to designate Catholic Serbs. Turks used name `Caur/Kaur` to designate Serbs.
abc123
5 Jun 2019  #606
@Crow

Pretty much everything you said annoys me, especially the language thing. I think either Serbs and Croats were one people and the name was somewhere between Serv/Herv, or they had been separate people for a long time but continued to live alongside each other. I think they have a really bizarre relationship in general. There were Celtic Insubres, Germanic Suebi, the Sarbani, etc, which makes me think they were separate but stayed close to each other.

@pawian

I don't understand what you're trying to say.
mafketis 17 | 6,897
5 Jun 2019  #607
I think either Serbs and Croats were one people

Well Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin are one macro-language and a whole bunch of traditional historical dividing lines run right through the speaking area. There's the Roman Catholic/Orthodox line, the Austro-Hungarian/Ottoman line and a few others. At least it's all on one side of the hajnal line... (maybe a sliver of slovenian creeps over)

Add in the montane tendency for clannishness and an authoritarian political culture.... and you get weaker four micro-standards rather than one robust macro-standard.
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
5 Jun 2019  #608
One macro-group, not all written in the same script:-)

The politics of alphabet is indeed a huge field in itself. Just look at Turkey before and after 'modernization' of Ottoman language until Ataturk
swept in and changed everything!
mafketis 17 | 6,897
5 Jun 2019  #609
not all written in the same script:-)

they can all be written in the latin alphabet only Serbian (and to a lesser extent Montenegrin) also use cyrillic.
abc123
5 Jun 2019  #610
@mafketis

I agree with this, I just object to it being called Serbian only, and saying we adopted it from them.
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
5 Jun 2019  #611
To the best of my knowledge, Polish ALWAYS has used the Latin alphabet since modern times, but in the very beginning,
Cyrillic was adopted. Please correct me if I am wrong about the latter.
mafketis 17 | 6,897
5 Jun 2019  #612
I just object to it being called Serbian only, and saying we adopted it from them

crow divides the world into real people (serbians) and enemies (everybody else) it's an ultra-nationalist crazy theory that no serious scholar takes seriously...
pawian 153 | 8,419
5 Jun 2019  #613
crow divides the world into real people (serbians) and enemies (everybody else) it's an ultra-nationalist crazy

You should show some more understanding of Crow`s situation. He is desperate not without a reason. Were Americans so happy when they lost Cuba due to Castro`s revolution? Ask your grandparents how they felt learning they had lost considerable assests there.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,796
5 Jun 2019  #614
You should show some more understanding of Crow`s situation

Why?
Maf is right.He is an ultra nationalist.
Pawian, you hate that in Poles.
Why do you love it in Serbs?
pawian 153 | 8,419
5 Jun 2019  #615
I will answer you when you elucidate on the following dilemma: you love ultra nationalism in Poles but hate in Serbs. Why? :):)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,014
5 Jun 2019  #616
....and nobody loves ultra nationalism in Germans.....WHY???
Miloslaw 6 | 1,796
5 Jun 2019  #617
I will answer you when you elucidate on the following dilemma: you love ultra nationalism in Poles but hate in Serbs. Why? :):)

Because Polish nationalism never led to Serbian style genocide.

....and nobody loves ultra nationalism in Germans.....WHY???

I will be as polite as I can BB, but you already know the answer...... it is because we fear you the most.
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
6 Jun 2019  #618
Good point.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,014
6 Jun 2019  #619
it is because we fear you the most.

It wasn't such a serious question to begin with...it's a scary thing once it gets running. Nobody knows that better than Germans.

Dreamed about in some forum is one thing, but in reality....
Ziemowit 12 | 3,383
6 Jun 2019  #620
but in the very beginning, Cyrillic was adopted [in Poland]

It was the Glagolitic script rather than Cyrillic that was adopted in Poland for liturgy. In 1380 prince Konrad II in Lower Silesia (Konrad II of Oels 1338-1403) founded the first monastery in Poland which used that script for liturgy.
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
6 Jun 2019  #621
Thanks, Ziemowit. Probably read that somewhere, but simply couldn't place the source.
classic34
9 Jun 2019  #622
To Ziemowit (Mr Autochthonous),

To accuse me of being presumptious is rather hypocritical of all of your posts so far.

You back a theory, `Polish Autochthonous theory, 'which is heavily criticized and largely rejected by modern historians and archaeologists.

This theory according to one source ``the use of `Venedi'' for ancestors of historically known Slavs is a device of modern Slavic scholars who have a nationalistic agenda to claim more atecedents for Slavs than they actually had.'' (Encyclopaedia of European peoples Waldman and Mason).

The Veneti in the age of Pliny and Ptolemy dwelt on the Baltic coast of Poland, extending into modern Belarus were western Balts and not the same Venedi as the Germans and Jordanes mistakenly applied the name to Antes and Sclaveni tribes.

Mr Autochthonous Ziemowit, You have not provided any evidence so far in any of your posts. Instead you have defended your theory with vulgar, offensive and fanatic remarks.

Even Lonely Planet tour book on Poland under the history section validates my above statements, not to say all history books on Slavic countries.

In the age of Herodotus, the veneti were, some have argued, to be proto-Illyrians living originally further up in central Europe. (The dialectological position of Illyrian within the Indo-european, language-family and its implications for Prehistory [article]

Ronald A. Crossland
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
9 Jun 2019  #623
The Illyrians survive in the form of present-day Albanians, perhaps the last extant speakers
of the now "extinct" Illyrian:-)
Crow 143 | 7,520
9 Jun 2019  #624
The Illyrians survive in the form of present-day Albanians

Wrong, wrong and again wrong. Look at official medieval sources and you will see how Austrians name Serbians as Iliryans. Plus, you herd venerable Israeli PM Netanyahu who said himself how Jews had contacts with Serbs in timer of Roman Republic (500 BC). Actually, we know for even earlier contacts but its not the topic now.

So, stop mocking Slavic history. Will you. Show some respect for this forum that is Polish and that is Slavic.

PM Netanyahu's welcoming Serbian PM Aleksandar Vučić >>> youtube.com/watch?v=PhxmLuXYNG4

Citation of Netanyahu`s words: ``The friendship between Jewish and Serbian people goes back for thousands of years, to time of Roman republic.``
Miloslaw 6 | 1,796
9 Jun 2019  #625
Show some respect for this forum that is Polish and that is Slavic

This forum is Polish of course.
But not Slavic in the way you would like to believe.
Yes, Poles share some customs, traditions, foods and history with other Slavs.
But brat we are not.
Except maybe for the Slowaks, none of you Slavs have ever truly supported Poland.
Crow 143 | 7,520
9 Jun 2019  #626
Listen now this creature.

This forum is Polish of course.

Please stop to fu** me and other good Slavs here in the brain. When you says this is Slavic forum its like that snake said it.

You may be of Slavic descend but your mental-set is well and deeply shunned in servitude of omnipotent, omnipresent and onmimocking western Europe.

......, none of you Slavs have ever truly supported Poland.

Racowie (Serbians) didn`t support Poland?

See what I talking about. You are lost case.

Oh, creature, creature.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,796
9 Jun 2019  #627
Poles are Slavs.
But they are strong enough on their own, not to need the support of other Slavs.
Poles have always had closer ties with non slavic nations than with slavic ones.
Hungary is a good example.
France, Britain, The USA and even Italy mean more to Poles than Serbia or Russia.
Crow 143 | 7,520
9 Jun 2019  #628
But they are strong enough on their own, not to need the support of other Slavs.

Like when they were strong within Austro-Hungaria. On the verge of euthanasia. Penisized firstly by all big Catholic nations led by Vatican.

Then Serbian noble Gavrilo gently placed bulled into the monster maniac Ferdinand and ended near finished Polish assimilation into Catholic ethnicity. Something like Muslim universalism, you know what I mean.

Adam Mizkiewich nicely told to Polish Prince Czartorisky ``Seek support only from Serbs and within Serbian actions.``

When asked by desperate Polish Prince Czartorisky, how and where to focus in work on Polish independence, Adam Mizkiewich told him: ``Serbians. Seek support only from Serbs and within Serbian actions.``
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
10 Jun 2019  #629
Any responsible sources will tell you that Albanians are Illyrians, not Slavs. There has been considerably Slavic, not to mention Turkish, admixture in their language. However, their ethnicity is of a different branch of the Indo-European language family and that branch is known as Illyrian!
Crow 143 | 7,520
10 Jun 2019  #630
I told you. Illyrians were Slavs of Shtokavian dialect. Meaning, Serbs.

Albanians are later arrivals to Europe. They call themselves Shquitars or as we Serbs call them Shiftari or Shiptari.

Home / Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.