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Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
1 Oct 2018  #331
It was the famous roman cartographer Ptolemy...with some translations of the town names for today...on the far right you can see the Sarmatians...


jon357 65 | 13,567    
2 Oct 2018  #332
I don't see anything "romantic" here

It was all part of the Romantic movement, whether you 'see' it or don't. And the Sarmatians are all long dead, with little trace of their culture.
Vlad1234 8 | 256    
2 Oct 2018  #333
..on the far right you can see the Sarmatians...

Germanic, Slavic, Sarmatian... What is the difference? From Roman viewpoint we are all the Barbarians.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
2 Oct 2018  #334
Of course...they all were non-Romans....stemming from the greek βάρβαρος (bárbaros) meant "babbler" (as in non-Greek).

The negative meaning came much later...
classic34    
2 Oct 2018  #335
Jon357 and Miroslav - its a matter of your opinion. Obviously you back the Veneti theory of Slavs.

The Sarmatae did exist. They don't exist today in modern sense of ethnolinguistic terms. It's just a name the Romans applied to pre-Slavic people and their Masters, whom the whole tribe was named after.

Other names in Europe disappear as well; Moesia, Thracia, Pannonia, Noricum, Illyricum etc. Does not mean they did not exist.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
2 Oct 2018  #336
The Sarmatae did exist. They don't exist today in modern sense of ethnolinguistic terms.

This is the point. Little is known about the Sarmatians; they do not have cultural heirs.

Obviously you back the Veneti theory of Slavs.

And this isn't relevant.

The notion of any group having cultural remnants of them is a fiction of the Romantic movement and it's predecessor; a pretty tale, and no more.
classic34    
2 Oct 2018  #337
Names like Vandals, Goths (East Germans), Lombards, Suevi (Middle Germans) and Scythians (today's Afghans, Tajiks, Ossetians and probably to a degree Turkmen, Uzbeks and Tatars) are not used now either but these people still exist.

Jon357 you are confusing Sarmatyzm movement in Poland of the Baroque period with Ancient Roman times.
You do not know any history from Ancient Roman times and you are confusing two totally different epochs and topics.

Veneti is not a pretty tale. These are accounts from the ancient observers of Roman times handed down to today.

I'd like to hear your `theory' on Slavs of back in the ancient times. Who were they according to You? Neuri? Veneti? Budini?

SLAVS did not exist as a name in ancient times.

Little is known of the Sarmatians according to YOU and people like YOU.
There is plenty of info on them, ever since post Communist era and before.

Actually, from an ethnolinguistic point of view, they were at the Antae and Sclavi at that junction of history of the Middle Ages and Classical period. They can easily be tied back to the `Sarmatae.' There is lots of information of that.

They were speaking Slavonian by that stage. So THAT IS THE POINT.

Jon357, you are either a denialist of ancient history because you think its too long ago or you back the Veneti Polish autochthonous theory
Crow 143 | 7,293    
2 Oct 2018  #338
This is the point. Little is known about the Sarmatians; they do not have cultural heirs.

And this isn't relevant.

Forget it man. Not good enough of explanation. We live in informative era of internet and one can explain it better. Much better.

So here are re-claimers- Serbians and then all other Slavs. Lusatian and Balkan Serbs preserved even local versions of venerable Sarmatian name, while all Slavs preserved direct linguistic and cultural continuity with Sarmatians.

After all, time is now that we take some money on tourism, and not only Greeks and Italians. Especially having in mind that its not them who gave birth to West but those were our Sarmatian (ie Serbian) ancestors.

Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Indians,.... all supports historical truth. Nobody ask Brits, French and Germans.
Tacitus 1 | 641    
2 Oct 2018  #339
And what exactly, did the "Sarmatians" contribute to the West that could be deemed as a lasting achievement? Especially compared to those of the Greeks or Romans?
Crow 143 | 7,293    
2 Oct 2018  #340
Don`t worry. You shall learn. Most of achievements that are seen as traditional Roman or Greek, were actually Sarmatian achievements. Greeks and Romans only stole it from Sarmatians.

Take for example what Romans done to Etruscans. See, Etruscans, who called themselves Raseni, were typical urban Sarmatians. Just go check the list what Romans stole from them. From knowledge, achievements and people. Or look what Greeks done to Trojans.

Not to say that Polish `Sarmatism` done more for European and world democracy then any Greek and Roman social achievement. Actually, even Greek and Roman social achievements were prefabricated Sarmatian achievements but actually degraded to suit small, vulgar and greedy societies.
Tacitus 1 | 641    
2 Oct 2018  #341
even Greek and Roman social achievements were prefabricated Sarmatian achievements

Such as? I am asking for clear examples here. When people attribute the Ancient Greeks and Romans with the birth of Western Civilization, they usually talk about how they invented Democracy, Philosophy and so on. What have the supposedly great Sarmatians given to the West?
Crow 143 | 7,293    
2 Oct 2018  #342
Gavrilo Princip was right. Shot the bastard that provoke, that deny your existence, you history, your future.
Tacitus 1 | 641    
2 Oct 2018  #343
I am just asking questions here. You are the one making all those claims, it is up to you to back them up with arguments.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
2 Oct 2018  #344
Start from coinage. It existed among Sarmats in Europe even prior Romans used it. Its not Roman invention and many connects coinage and use of money with Romans. Actually, prior to Roman appearance on historical scene. Prior to Greek existence, too.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
2 Oct 2018  #345
Ptolemy...with some translations of the town names for today.

What is the source of the knowledge that:

Aregella is in the same place as is now known as Leipzig (Lipsk);
Ascaucalis - Bydgoszcz (Bromberg);
Casurgis - Prague;
Treva - Hamburg;
etc., etc.

To me, Brno in the Czech Republic is the only name on that list that may be vaguely refered to the ancient name of Eburodunum. Could you perhaps provide a link to the website where your map can be found?
jon357 65 | 13,567    
2 Oct 2018  #346
And what exactly, did the "Sarmatians" contribute to the West that could be deemed as a lasting achievement?

Exactly. Ńothing. One or two here are confusing archaeology and dead primitive civilisations with revivalism.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
2 Oct 2018  #347
It's just a name the Romans applied to pre-Slavic people and their Masters, whom the whole tribe was named after.

Several roman ethnographers debated whether the veneti were part of the sarmats or not. It is known they intermarried and lived in roughly the same areas but the main difference is veneti had more germanic influence and lived in huts while sarmats were more nomadic and live in wagons and temporary houses. But the existence of the sarmats in what is today modern poland cant be disputed. Numerous roman accounts state the sarmats lived near the wisla and what is modern day ukraine, belarus, russia, etc
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
2 Oct 2018  #348
Could you perhaps provide a link to the website where your map can be found?

I belongs to a museum I think, the images around the net are only photos of it. But the translation of the names made big waves in the archeological world...

spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/mapping-ancient-germania-berlin-researchers-crack-the-ptolemy-code-a-720513.html
Classic34    
2 Oct 2018  #349
Jon357,

you did not answer my question. Who were the Slavs of the classical age?

I know your type. You know nothing but you discredit others to sound smart when you are not.

you are among the millions of throngs of the West and the world who are dumb and growing dumber in this internet and Iphone age.

Arrogance is no excuse for a know nothing.

to get back to the point;

The Antes form a `link between the Scytho-Sarmatian past and the medieval RUS kingdom (Roger Portal, Vernadsy). '
They were a powerful and populous people of countless tribes;

Drevlianians, Severians, Polans, Dregovichi, Vyatichi, White Croats, Krivichi, Buzhans, Tvertsy, Dulebians and Ulichians to name a few.

The only thing that needs revivalism is Jon357's BRAIN
G (undercover)    
2 Oct 2018  #350
Hmm...6th century?

That's when "modern Slavs" are "showing up" as a "new" (to people that came into contact with them) group but they are numerous and expansionistic.

This roman map from the early 2nd century shows Sarmatia...and they came from the East (not nowhere)...

Romans somehow weren't that much interested what's was happening outside of their borderlands. So they had no clue if some of those people in green were Germanic or not. Even less so outside of that territory. People they were describing as Sarmatians were a group of different tribes and they were... Iranian, using much different language than Slavs.

It was all part of the Romantic movement, whether you 'see' it or don't. And the Sarmatians are all long dead

What was a part of the Romantic movement ? The Polish-Sarmatian connection was described in early 16th century, before that there weren't many texts at all so it was passed as oral tradition.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
2 Oct 2018  #351
....the article I linked to speaks of Ptolemy using the notes, reports and diaries of Romans knowing these lands....soldiers of course but also civilian travellers and traders also politicians and other time witnesses.

The naming of the Sarmatians had to come from somewhere...Iranians on Germanias borders?

Romans somehow weren't that much interested what's was happening outside of their borderlands.

If they planned to take said borderland in as new province they were. They had to. For that there was a vested interest of the Roman Empire in Germania.

After all any military invasion needs to be carefully planned. As the success with Gaul/Gallia before showed. They planned to do the same to Germania.

The later resignation and retreat behind the Limes has alot to do with the land and it's people being to unruly (GO ARMINIUS!:)...but that doesn't mean they weren't concentrated on intel gathering and research for quite awhile...
Classic34    
2 Oct 2018  #352
Jon357,

I am sure you know a lot of history and the fact that you are on this post is because of your curiosity.

I have been a reactive rude person in some of my replies. Please forgive my immaturity.

I am sure we all have better interests to pursue than this topic.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
2 Oct 2018  #353
In the meanwhile, people, you would note that like in the past, only whites in Europe remains those whites who are Sarmats (ie Slavs). We got full circle of events and things again coming into place.
Miloslaw 7 | 544    
2 Oct 2018  #354
Crow,you are beginning to make less sense than normal....and that is saying something......you need to find a Serb forum...oh,there isn't one.....what a surprise.....I wonder why that may be......
jon357 65 | 13,567    
2 Oct 2018  #355
I am sure we all have better interests to pursue than this topic.

No worries; you're obviously very passionate about the classics and love ancient history, as do I.

I see the Sarmation revival in Poland as mirroring things elsewhere in Europe at the time, a revival in Arthurian mythology (incidentally there's an unproven theory that the person the Arthur legends were based on was a Sarmatian mercernary who was in Britain as a post-Roman 'Dux'), a resurgence of the Grail Legend in France, a renewed interest in German legends, and of course the beginnings of an interest in Egypt. All these were happening at the same time and all part of enlightenment, a search for knowledge and ideas that were considered lost.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
3 Oct 2018  #356
....not to forget, the bigger the todays insecurities and smaller the self esteem the more glorious becomes a mythical, powerful past.

There is a reason why todays most passionate Sarmatian on this board is a Serb still suffering from the aftermath of the destruction of Yugoslavia.

Abit understanding and indulgence is appropriate, I think..
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
3 Oct 2018  #357
Interesting link: theancientweb.com/explore/europe/poland/

Lot of stuff about ancient poland...

It was only much later, about the beginning of our era, that the Slavs, pressed by the Ugro-Finnish peoples, who originally occupied the middle course of the Volga, moved further south; and occupied the abandoned settlements of the Teutonic and Celtic peoples, who migrated further west. It was then only that the Carpathians and the Vistula became the cradle of the Slavs, whence they spread in all directions in the first century after Christ. They reached the Don on the east, the Baltic on the north, the Adriatic on the south, and went as far as, the River Rhine on the west.

So like i said... the people living back then in modern day poland were aboriginal proto slavs that came in contact with germanic tribes in the west ans sarmatians from the south and east

What i find strange is how the greeks, romans, etc and the poles pre 966 all put the god of lightning at the top of the gods they belived in
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
3 Oct 2018  #358
the people living back then in modern day poland were aboriginal proto slavs

Was that before Ptolemy made the map of Germania (with germanic tribes living in modern day Poland) and the Sarmatians or later?

What i find strange is how the greeks, romans, etc and the poles pre 966 all put the god of lightning at the top of the gods they belived in

Not strange when you think that there could have existed one ur-religion....a way of thinking ALL native Europeans shared....Celts, Germanics, Slavs.
They gave them their own names in their own languages but the gods where the same, the rituals too...

Our real european heritage...not some from far away desert imported one-man show!

I wonder why not more people lamenting the doom of Europe today because of all these strangers and their religion are defending the real old ways of our ancestors but are still fans of this imported religion...an interesting contradiction. Because as I see it THAT would be one of the first things to shed and to return to our true roots!
classic34    
3 Oct 2018  #359
There can't be too much more to discuss on this topic.

I think once the Goths conquered Sarmatia 170AD- 376AD, the Sarmatians/Spali lost their nomadic way of life and were forced to live a settled life, among the pre-Slavs.

Both groups had to follow the Gothic Standard for two centuries and then follow allegiance to the Huns after. Nomadic way of life gone. Merged in with pre-Slavs possible in that way.



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