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Poland's distribution of I1 haplogroup (Germanic haplogroup) and influences from Europe


McDouche 6 | 283
27 Dec 2013 #1
I1 (Y-DNA) haplogroup is the Germanic haplogroup.

This is pretty interesting and I imagine the Slavic nationalists will be annoyed to find out that some parts of Poland have more Germanic admixture than half of the UK.
Crow 160 | 9,195
27 Dec 2013 #2
considering that this thread represent obvious provocation, with even wrong title, i strongly suggests to the moderators to change title of this thread into- (Genetic evidence of Slavic origin of Germanics- discussion) or to delete entire thread.

I1 (Y-DNA) haplogroup is the Germanic haplogroup.

nonsense. Its just wrong to present wrong data (I haplogroup isn`t Germanic haplagroup!) and in the same time insult those Slavs of Rujan island (and in general of that what is today`s Eastern Germany) who were bestially murdered and assimilated by Romans and Teutons

Proto Slavs were bearers of the I halpogroup concentrated around three main centers (dark violet areas) - at first, it dispersed from what is today`s Ukraine and Slavic South on Western Balkan (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro). Then, after distribution along the Danube (in time around 5.500 to 4.500 BC), third center of the population was formed in what is today`s Slavic North-West (particularly- from Lusatia to the Rujan island in today`s eastern Germany).

We know from the history that Rujan island was ancient religious center of the Slavic God Svetovid. It needed to pass a lot of time before, that deep in past, one region consolidate itself as center of one God. Slavs were that old native population of the region who had its Gods and worshiped those Gods.

I hap

Distribution of I (known as `Iris`) haplogroup along the Danube river, starting from the Balkan and then also from the Ukraine. Balkan and parts of Ukraine near to the Black see were Ice age refugium (zones out of the glacial ice area), from were ancients repopulated Europe after Ice age was finished

Starting points of the I haplogroup
OP McDouche 6 | 283
27 Dec 2013 #3
nonsense. Its just wrong to present wrong data (I haplogroup isn`t Germanic haplagroup!)

Crow, this statement alone shows you either didn't read the title properly or you don't know anything about haplogroups.

I1 is a subclade of the I haplogroup. I1 originated from the Scandinavian areas and is most common among the Germanic populations. Your map shows concentrations of both I1 and I2. The reason the Balkans have high concentrations on your map is because they have a significant I2 frequency.
Crow 160 | 9,195
28 Dec 2013 #4
exactly. I1 is a subclade of the I haplogroup. It telling about Proto-Slavic genetic background of the Germanics. But, neither the I, nor I1 nor I2 aren`t Germanic. Go, ask Lusatian Serbs who are Germanics. They would tell you that all Germanics originates from Serbs (ie Slavs). They knows. You can bet that they are right.

Linguistic science already concluded that are Slavic languages older then Germanic, therefore that is Slavic population (culture) older then Germanic. So, genetic evidences goes hand in hand with linguistic evidences.

Also, let us not vulgarize facts and tragic Slavic history. Isn`t that truth that entire today`s Eastern Germany and Rujan on the North, after all most of the Baltic area were actually Slavic not so deep in past, less then 1000 years ago?? Yes, its great truth. What happened to those Slavs? Bottom line is that they were assimilated by young Germanic nations. So, suddenly, genes of those germanized Slavs represent proof that Poles have Germanic genes?! and you start thread about it????!!! How sinister. Even disgusting claim considering how is truth quite opposite- Germanics have Polish genes considering that they assimilated a lot of Poles (Serbians/Sarmatians).

McDouche, i didn`t expect this from you. You should have minimal respect to the Poles here.

The real truth of Slavic people (The history of the Slavs has been manipulated) // Proto-Slavic is synonymous to the Proto-Indo European

youtube.com/watch?v=yRUONpHpAMI
eliseusz
30 Nov 2014 #5
Polish are slavs, not germans. Yes, there has been mixing in the northern and western regions with germanic and Scandinavian tribes, bit it is not overwhelming. Most of poland, central poland eastern poland and southern poland are very slavic. If not slavic eastern. I notice a slight difference in poles from the north (small admixture of germans, vikings and baltics with slavic dominance) to my part of poland between Krakow and rzeszow(Slavs with small mixtures of tatars, vlachs, and carpathian people. To some extent a small amount of germanic and celtic.)

People from the north tend to be almost always very light and fair. People from the central and southen areas have more of a dark beer blonde hair, to dark brown, even black. We can see where most likely certain mixtures took place be looking at these traits.

Poles have around 60 to 65 percent r1a1, the genetic marker for slavic and certain central asian peoples. The highest densities of this gene also confirm my theory of how the south and central regions are more slavic, as r1a1 is has the most density around rzeszow, Krakow and warsaw areas.

A great variety of other genes also are present in poles. For example, silesian poles bear genetic markers frome the celts, who lived there before the germans aND the slavs. It is estimated that 30% of poles have some celtic ancestry. Around 16 % of poles have r1b1which is western european. This way represent germanic or celtic ancestry. Thus, I believe that it would be safe to say ly that while most of the paternal genes of poles are slavic or eastern in origin, roughly over 30% to 40% of poles would have some Nordic paternal ancestry. Keep in mind these are slavs, with minimal germanic mixture. Other variations are shown in the north-east, where people share genes with lithuanians, and the far south, where romanian vlachs passed on Mediterranean genes to carpathian poles.
gregy741 5 | 1,231
30 Nov 2014 #6
Polish are slavs, not germans. Yes, there has been mixing in the northern and western regions with germanic and Scandinavian tribes, bit it is not overwhelming

you sure? germans absorbed massive areas and lots of slavic tribes,,like polabians,sorbs,lusatians,pomeranians,silesians
polabians alone constituted like half of todays germany when they were conquered and absorbed by holy roman empire .slavic genetic input into germany genetic pool must have been massive.

and then there are west slavic tribes who lived together with ostrogoths in ukraine,and run away before Huns and settled in todays Poland together with them.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,230
26 Jun 2017 #7
[moved from]

In Welsh 'mor' means sea

Quite close to 'mare' in Latin or 'morze' in Polish.

Does anyone know of anyresearch telling the percentage of particular DNA haplogroups in the Welsh-speaking or Irish-speaking or Gaelic-speaking populations (all of them native)?
Atch 20 | 4,160
26 Jun 2017 #8
In Welsh 'mor' means sea

And in Irish sea is 'farraige' which is a nice example of how different the two languages are.

particular DNA haplogroups in the Welsh-speaking or Irish-speaking or Gaelic-speaking populations (all of them native)?

This is a very good link Ziem with loads of information:

khazaria.com/genetics/irish.htm

It mentions the R1B gene which apparently has the highest prevalance in Europe amongst Irish people.

We're very close to the English genetically but closer to the Sctos and closest of all to the Basque people because our DNA hasn't been mixed much with that of other nationalities since our most distant ancestors came from Iberia so many thousands of years ago.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,572
26 Jun 2017 #9
@Ziemowit

I've read about the haplogroups about various other nationalities esp after I sent my DNA in and and I'm sure I can find some info on common haplogroups of the irish and scottish. Info on Gaelic Welsh speakers specifically may be harder to find.

Apparently there is actually a small but rather significant amount of Celtic genes in poles especially those in northern Poland.

Manx is a general adjective to describe people or things from the Isle of Man. A very old civilization by European standards. Also one of the best places to live in the UK due to their low tax schemes, high income and high HDI.
Atch 20 | 4,160
26 Jun 2017 #10
significant amount of Celtic genes in poles

There's no such thing as a Celtic gene as such. Can you provide more details?

Manx is a general adjective

But the language is also called Manx.

. Also one of the best places to live in the UK

Well it depends on what you want from life. It's absolutely TINY, you could go bananas living there and the people are a bit odd, very insular. Do you know they refer to Catholics as 'left-footers' whatever that means. The best thing about it is probably the low crime rate thanks to the public floggings! They gave that up sometime in the 1970s I think but the memory remains and is quite a good deterrent. They could always bring it back.....so nobody wants to risk it :)
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,572
26 Jun 2017 #11
@Atch

Very interesting. It is small indeed. Many of the very wealthy little islands like malta or Microsystems like Lichtenstein San Marino Andorra etc have a very high standard of living esp compared to the rest of larger eu countries. They seem to mostly thrive off banking, tourism, services and perhaps a lil agriculture and fishing depending on the country. if I remember correctly isle of man has a very rare cow that disappeared in the rest of England forgot the name of it though.

Also there is a small basque community in the bus in Boise, idaho. Interesting language basque.. Kind of like Spanish (the real Spanish not Latino Spanish) in sound but yet different.
johnny reb 50 | 7,144
26 Jun 2017 #12
Kind of like Spanish (the real Spanish not Latino Spanish) in sound but yet different.

That is where the Irish DNA comes from is Spain is what I read.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,572
26 Jun 2017 #13
Spanish people in general I believe are the ancient iberians. I took Latin in high school for 4 years and got to read some of ceasar Ptolemy etc. As far as specific dna etc I'm not sure.

There was probably influence to and from Spain to the UK and Ireland especially during Roman times. Although much of the northern lands of the British islands were isolated by hadrians wall i.e. the picts.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,230
27 Jun 2017 #14
esp after I sent my DNA in

Did it tell your Y-chromosome haplogroup? What is it if's not a secret? The R1a is most common among the Polish people (about 50%).
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,572
27 Jun 2017 #15
@Ziemowit

Ill have to dig it up this was a few years back... R1a or r1a1 or something. It didn't really define it specifically as polish though but rather eastern European. It said I was like 75%/80% eastern euro and the rest scandinavian. Maybe because the potop szwedzki? I don't know... There's no one in our family that I know of that's Swedish. Most are polish, lithuanian, and belorussian. Ill find it and upload it if possible altho the 100kb size is rather prohibitive
Ziemowit 14 | 4,230
27 Jun 2017 #16
R1a or r1a1 or something. It didn't really define it specifically as polish though but rather eastern European.

Using terms such as 'specifically Polish' is of course a kind of simplification. We cannot talk of nationalities as defined through a specific set of genes. It is rather the pattern observed in a nation that defines that nation genetically. And this pattern changes in the course of history. The current project in genetics being carried out in Poland these days is aimed at determining how the genetic profile of the contemporary Polish population differs from the genetic profiles of the people of the Middle Ages in Poland and also of the people living here the Roman period (100-400 AD). The results will be very important since it may tell if the Slavic people migrated here from the Ukrainian steppe in the 6th century AD as it is commonly believed or they were the very native population of our land even as far back as in Roman times.

He's as Polish as Angela Merkel is.

And you have what against my Polishness, you Russian troll Snotty? Do you really think that being Putin's agent makes you a star on the PolishForums?
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,572
27 Jun 2017 #17
@Ziemowit

Well first off I think the poles of yesteryear I.e. those in the middle ages, renaissance, commonwealth years, etc identified poland with much larger eastern boundaries esp during the polish-lithuanian commonwealth. The western part of medieval, ww1, modern poland was kind of there frontier boundary to western europe. Its just the lines would change so you may use some poles with germanic Anglo Saxon type genes. However if you're Ukrainian or Russian itll tell you basically that your genera are eastern European and it gives you various things by which you can narrow down countries.

If you're interested in learning more about the various little tribes inhabiting poland pre 996 ad and during the Roman times you can check out ptolemys accounts. A while back I wrote about the various tribes inhabiting poland. So in general no there most likely wasn't a giant migration from Rome into poland and the other parts - maybe a little at the end after Rome's fall but in general there would be been trade routes with people ideas and goods especially with Poland's amber being sent out and of course stuff and people coming from the Roman world. This was known as the amber trail and you can look it up in wiki as well.


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