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If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"...


matteroftaste
22 Feb 2010 #61
Except "back then" it was not considered an occupation at all. Force was never used against Lithuanians

OK then why so many of them don't like Poles?

If they want to claim Mickiewicz as a Lithuanian then they have to accept the fact that he loved Poland dearly

Is that why he called Lithuania his motherland?

Recent history, inter-war period - taking the Wilno by general ┼╗eligowski's units
in October 1920.

Nothing to do with the years of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

maybe it is the only reason, I'll let you know when I get to talk with them again :-)
I only posted what I was told by some Lithuanians.

o it's not motherland
but fatherland :-)),

fatherland or Vaterland is German my friend. In English it's motherland. Get prepared before arguing next time.
Marek11111 9 | 816
24 Feb 2010 #62
my ancestors ware in Polish army, my grandfather fought Germans then he was captured by Russians and escaped from train heading to Siberia and he never give up his rifle willing as he swore to defend Poland as he said " Honor i Ojczyzna " when he made home he helped to save Jews as he was friends with a lot of them before war.
OP Morsczi_Purtk 1 | 25
28 Feb 2010 #63
THE HITMAN:
If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"...

Traitors, should be dealt with.

Inform yourself before you make stupid remarks...
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #64
Not stupid in my mind. My ancestors would rather take a bullet or do hard labor, which is fact, rather than join the wehrmacht.
Your ancestor obviously took the cowardly option by joining the Germans and shot towards his own countryman, assuming you are Polish.

Better to ask the question of " who was a true Pole ".

I stress anyone who sided with the enemy was a coward and a traitor, end of story.
Matowy - | 295
28 Feb 2010 #65
You have a very naive viewpoint on this. The average person does not care about national prestige, medieval standards honour or pointless patriotism. The average person wants to survive, and get on with their lives as smoothly as possible, in comfort preferably. That's why it's much easier to conquer a first world country rather than a third world one; there is peace, stability, social status, class, etc. Nobody is going to bother fight an invading force unless that force is blatantly oppressive, which in this case it was. It's very common for the natives of the conquered country to start working for the conquerors. Don't get all mushy and sentimental about this; it's just how it goes. Put to sleep your childish concepts of honour, shame, cowardice, betrayal and all that crap. Grow up and learn some history.

As for your ancestors, nobody cares. What your ancestors did has no bearing on you at all. If it came to it, you wouldn't react in the same way they did, so stop trying to enhance your own self-image by attributing yourself to deeds you have no connection to. Someone just as naive as you, but with Polish ancestors who were in the resistance, could easily say "Well, YOUR ancestors were cowards because they simply stayed silent and got on with their lives without fighting the enemy. They were cowards and traitors because they did nothing, whereas MY ancestors did amazing things by joining the resistance and fighting!!!". See how much you can twist history to your liking when you use subjective terms like "cowardice", "traitors", and "enemy" ?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #66
Not stupid in my mind. My ancestors would rather take a bullet or do hard labor, which is fact, rather than join the wehrmacht.

Your ancestors were German????

Because otherwise they weren't even asked....
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #67
Hitman is some teenager who is living a fantasy to escape his boring life in a flat with 8 of his family members.

In any case the honor of past relatives is not YOUR honor. If you are a loser you are still a loser no matter how heroic anyone in your last might have been.
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #68
naive

Hah !!!

Your ancestors were German????

Obviously didn,t feel German.

Hitman is some teenager

How dare you refer to me as a teenager........... I,m 20.
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #69
20 is still a teenager in mental capacity. Call me back when you actually have some experience in life...say 10 years from now.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #70
Obviously didn,t feel German.

Either they were or they were not....
f stop 25 | 2,513
28 Feb 2010 #71
This might be a little off topic, but I see some possible parallels, so humor me here.
I see boys is US join the armed forces for any variety of reasons, most prevalent are: don't want to live with parents, can't affort a place of their own, can't find a job, can't affort college tuition, parents kicking them out, girfriend broke up with them, like guns, buddies think that they have no b0lls... they believe that they will be stationed in Hawaii.. nice cash bonus to join..

Is it possible that by some freak of nature they might end up a part of something that in the future will be judged in completely different light? How much of a choice do they actually have, once in the uniform and sworn to obey orders?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #72
Is it possible that if by some freak of nature they might end up a part of something that in the future will be judged in completely different light?

There will always be some stupids who are judging other people from other times without knowing what they would had done or believing they know it all...a sure sign of the very young and the very clueless!
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #73
The only opinions military service members care about are those of their comrades.
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #74
Either they were or they were not....

And queen Elizabeth II ?
f stop 25 | 2,513
28 Feb 2010 #75
so, german boys back then had even less choice about whether or not they should join the military, right?
OP Morsczi_Purtk 1 | 25
28 Feb 2010 #76
... anyone who sided with the enemy was a coward and a traitor, end of story.

Ok, by this statement you have showen me, that you don't know what you are talking about. When in 1941 the Germans on the annexed territory brought out the Volksliste,

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkslista
my ancestors and hundred of thousand other people from the annexed territory were asked, if they want to become a German citizen of the third and last class (Volksliste 3, the polish exil government even advised these men to do so and desert later) and get forced to go to the Wehrmacht, or stay a Polish citizen and a "subhuman" in the eyes of the Germans, and get maybe deported within the next days to Stutthof or somewhere else. Most of these "DVL 3 - men" were known as the most unreliable soldiers and most of them deserted anyway as quick as they could to the allies (So did mine :D).

Wich option would you have chosen if you were married and had little children? Before they had to sign the DVL, they were treated like ****. 2 of my ancestors were killed by Germans because they were in their eyes worthless "subhumans". Also traitors I guess?

I stress anyone who sided with the enemy was a coward and a traitor, end of story.

Well, if you want to "stress" 90 year old "traitors" any longer you need to hurry my friend... And by the way: Stop generalizing. The vast majority of Kashubs, Poles etc. from the annexed territory did defently not collaborate with the Germans voluntarily, they were forced. Period.

Mòrsczi P├║rtk
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #77
I stress anyone who sided with the enemy was a coward and a traitor, end of story.

Well, take the Danziger for example.
It wasn't their choice being placed outside of Germany...they wanted back...they saw the Wehrmacht as liberators....who was the enemy here???

There were hundreds of thousands of Germans who were placed into new-Poland by the Treaty of Versailles.
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #78
you don't know what you are talking about.

I know very well what I,m talking about.

The vast majority of Kashubs, Poles etc. from the annexed territory did defently not collaborate with the Germans voluntarily, they were forced. Period.

Bull, whose generalizing now.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksdeutsche
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #79
Maybe there is a misunderstanding again?

Poles weren't asked to join the Wehrmacht, only Germans.
And there were different Germans...those who lived in Prussia/Germany till 1919 can hardly
be seen as traitors...they didn't ask to become Poles in the first place!

Who do you mean with "traitors" ?
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #80
None of us no anything about what went on then and it is arrogant to judge any of them based on heresay Only the people who were there do. I bet HITMAN would have sold out his neighbor in a second to save his family. People who have not lived through war have no business commenting.
Torq 32 | 2,897
28 Feb 2010 #82
Who do you mean with "traitors" ?

He probably means those Poles who signed the "Volksliste 3" in fear for their
and their families' lives and consequently were drafted into Wehrmacht (see
Morsczi_Purtk's post.)

90% of them were no more German than I am. If I was alive back then, they would
probably try to get me to sign the DVL3 as well, as a member of 'Goralenvolk'.

What would I do in such situation, if my family's well-being and even life was at stake?
I don't know - I honestly don't know. But you see, THE HITMAN is already 20 years old,
he knows everything there is to know about life *rolls eyes*
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #83
Who do you mean with "traitors" ?

As in the link, those with German connections. Who, when it suited them were Polish citizens, but when the going got tough....... etc

There will always be some stupids who are judging other people from other times without knowing what they would had done or believing they know it all...a sure sign of the very young and the very clueless!

You must mean beezlebob.

People who have not lived through war have no business commenting.

I participated in a war, so which war did you live through ?
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #84
No Hitman you didn't. You are an immature kid who is living in the family flat in Warsaw most likely. Isn't it time for grandma to use the computer now? You had your turn.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Feb 2010 #85
Who, when it suited them were Polish citizens, but when the going got tough....... etc

When did it ever suit them to be Polish citizens???
They didn't asked for it, there was no Poland till 1919....how are your history grades????
Ever read the surveys of....say....Silesia???
The majority voted for Germany....between them my Grand parents...the Poles made it clear that they wanted all of Silesia but not the Germans!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics

In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population was German and 25% Polish.

There you have your "traitors" !
The going got though for them since they became a minority in a hostile new country after Versailles!
THE HITMAN
28 Feb 2010 #86
THE HITMAN is already 20 years old,

You didn,t think I was serious, did you ?
beelzebub - | 444
28 Feb 2010 #87
Nope...you can't be more than 16. If you are you are developmentally delayed.
Torq 32 | 2,897
28 Feb 2010 #88
I participated in a war

Online games don't count, Hitty ;)
Matowy - | 295
28 Feb 2010 #90
but when the going got tough....... etc

Understatement much?

I participated in a war, so which war did you live through ?

You probably aren't even old enough to remember the Yugoslavian wars. You're not fooling anyone with your "I'm 20, no I'm not I'm older, AND I've been in a war" routine.


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