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Updated rules


Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
19 Apr 2017 #151
Give us a straight answer

Give 'us' - you mean who? You're still on probation for troll-abuse and should probably be the last person to try to write in the name of a group of posters.

There are a lot of references to 'Polacks' - ?phrase=Polacks - so you've just proven that PF is not racist (IF it was, there would be 'racist references' to one group of people only).

I've never heard of the term "Shquiptars" and had to look up the recent definition of '***' - so '***' may be considered as offensive as 'polack' - dictionary.com/browse/polack. The term 'polack' appears 8-10 more on this site than the term '***.'

So please clarify - is PF racist against whom - blacks, whites, Asians, Spanish, Polish, or everybody? If everybody then by logic it cannot be racist.

Btw - here is the quote from your own post: "More senseless dumb Polack observations, not based on any real knowledge of Poland." or "I don't think it's much of a surprise that the more uneducated the Polack,..." (multiple references to Polack in a single post) -

https://polishforums.com/history/poland-reasonably-well-land-terms-57531/8/

You are calling Polish people ('Polacks') - the 'extremely disparaging and offensive' term. Why didn't you quote this post to prove your point?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,070
19 Apr 2017 #152
You are calling people ('Polacks')

I get your point, I would rather engage those here who maybe racist or just from a generation that came from a geneartion when tese terms were acceptable, it is better to debate and engage those who have extreme views rather than ban them and send them off to the darker side of the net where their mis placed dilike or hate would be welcomed and encouraged.

sometimes its a tough call, here if someone is concerned about migrants from lets say nigeria they are likely to be called racist.

As you can see by your atempt to exlplain you position in a rational and impartial way you youself have become a target of the attack pack,It is probably best you stay in the background and allow Vincent and the other mods deal with the day to day, of course ultimate control and decision remains with you.

There is a good reason why hostage negotiators are not the ultimate decision makers , there needs to be a distance kept between the front line and the commander in chief, it allows time for reflection and unpassioned decision making.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #153
Why didn't you quote this post to prove your point?

Mainly because it was 5 years ago and not really relevant to a discussion talking about racism today on PF. I remember how it used to be on PF - people would use racist insults towards each other constantly, and as I seem to remember, much of it calmed down after it was made clear that it was no longer acceptable. What changed?

Admin, maybe - instead of focusing on racism (because it's obvious that no-one can agree on it) - perhaps you could focus on stopping the abuse on here? I can give as good as I get, but PF would be a hell of a better place if people could post freely without getting abused.
OP Harry
19 Apr 2017 #154
is PF racist

PF is not racist. Some racist posters on PF use racist slurs and aim those slurs at other people.

'wog' may be considered as offensive as 'polack'

If you're OK with 'wog' being used, why would you object to Polack? Personally I'd like to see immediate bans with no warnings handed out to people who use either term (except, possibly, when describing themselves or their experiences of being called things, as dolno did when he said that idiots in Britain used to call him a "a white wog").

PF would be a hell of a better place if people could post freely without getting abused.

It certainly would. I would very strongly suggest that there's a 24-hour grace period and then any abuse aimed by any poster at any poster gets an immediate one-week minimum ban.

Dolno: I'd like to reply to some of what you wrote but I've hit my quote limit.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #155
I would very strongly suggest that there's a 24-hour grace period and then any abuse aimed by any poster at any poster gets an immediate one-week minimum ban.

It would clean the place up overnight. Call another poster a child molester? That's you for a week. Come back and call someone an unemployed buffoon? See you next week. Posting someone's real name? Have fun for a week off PF. After a month or so, the forum would probably be free of 99% of the abuse and would moderate itself.

But then again, ask yourself why none of the usual suspects are willing to agree to such a thing.
OP Harry
19 Apr 2017 #156
I'm often referred to by some people as one of the usual suspects but I'm very willing to agree to that policy. In fact, if it is actually introduced and enforced for all posters, I'd be willing to accept a minimum two-week ban for myself if I abuse any other posters, i.e. double what other members get.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,070
19 Apr 2017 #157
as dolno did when he said that idiots in Britain used to call him a "a white wog").

This an employee of a company of which I was a director of, at no time did I make any move to fire this person in fact the oposite, I engaged that person in conversation at any opportunity, I like to believe that they came to see me as a person not a alien from outer space, in my experience those who hold racist views are people who have either had a bad experiance with a random loony from another country or quite simply have never had a chance to engage and talk with someone from a different race to their own or are jelouse that a immigrant is doing better then they are.

Still it is rare that people who hold racist views actualy cause any physical harm to to those they dislike.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
19 Apr 2017 #158
do you regard the term "wog" as racist or not?

f 'wog' - so 'wog' may be considered as offensive as 'polack'

I'm thinking it's maybe like (w ank er) or spaz - offensive in the UK (maybe more) but not really used seriously as a word of abuse in the US.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #159
Could be, I've always associated it with British English as well. I actually wonder where Polly got it from, because it's not the kind of thing that I can imagine Americans saying. I suppose on the flip side, Polack isn't offensive in BrE.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
19 Apr 2017 #160
To me as an American vs British native speaker, I find "polack" extremely offensive, even though I'm not Polish!!
mafketis 34 | 12,243
19 Apr 2017 #161
o me as an American vs British native speaker, I find "polack" extremely offensive

I'd put it at level one (one the weakest - three the worst) with honky or limey. Not a term of respect or endearment but not that offensive.
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
19 Apr 2017 #162
The proportion of possibly offensive terms against Polish people vs non-Polish people is about 6 to 1. IF we were removing possibly offensive posts against Poland/Poles and left those that are unfavorable to non-Polish people, you might have claimed there is a 'racist bias' against the non-Polish group. But the mentioned ratio proves otherwise.

If there's an abusive post - use the Alert feature.

why would you object to Polack?

I don't. I just called out the hypocrisy.

either term (except, possibly, when describing themselves

Right.. exceptions.. exclusions.. this is when the Pandora box opens.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
19 Apr 2017 #163
Somehow recall hearing in old movies the term "hunyak" when referring to someone of Polish heritage. Familiar to anybody here?
It's usage is surely of a derogatory nature.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #164
If there's an abusive post - use the Alert feature.

Might I suggest that if you have to edit someone's post, it should result in a warning for wasting your time if nothing else?
OP Harry
19 Apr 2017 #165
If there's an abusive post - use the Alert feature.

The post in which a poster called other members "wogs" was reported.

I don't.

So you're saying that racist abuse of American Poles is now completely acceptable? Sorry but I really do think that allowing any racist abuse is a very bad idea.

Right.. exceptions.. exclusions.. this is when the Pandora box opens.

OK, no exceptions, no exclusions: if a poster uses a racist slur to describe any poster, including themselves, they get an immediate one-week ban. If any poster aims any abuse at any other poster, they get an immediate one-week ban. In my case I'd be fine with you making that a one-month ban, just to show how much I want this problem stamped out.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #166
OK, no exceptions, no exclusions.

I'm up for that too. I'm sure at least half of the regular posters here will also be up for that.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
19 Apr 2017 #167
In a word, yes.
Bieganski 17 | 896
19 Apr 2017 #168
The insulting ingratitude directed towards Admin and the Mods is uncalled for.

Given the diverse and indeed polarized attitudes and opinions expressed on here I'd say they do a great job at keeping PF a place that anyone can participate in. They are obviously doing something right if it has been around for well over a decade now with people joining and viewing from inside Poland and around the world.

PF has been a free marketplace for topics with the most active ones rising to the top. Like it or not that is a good sign when it comes to true freedom of speech.

The member Lenka mentioned earlier in the thread that there are all kinds of trolls. She's right there are. But she failed to mention "censorship trolls" which she needs first and foremost to come to terms with and acknowledge herself as one. Indeed, she certainly couldn't expound on anything when asked to do so repeatedly by Admin. But that's to be expected of a troll; never explain yourself just incite others and then feign ignorance, beat around the bush, point the finger at others, and always play the victim card to escape accountability.

So I am going to call the bluff on those trolling members who have been claiming for years now that there are loads of new posters waiting on the sidelines but don't post on here because of what is being discussed and certain members who are participating on the forum.

Sterilizing PF to satisfy some nebulous leftist PC standard will never attract new members.

If there were truly a tsunami of potential new posters who wanted to talk about the Polish angle when it comes to endless "true" love which can only be found in non-traditional relationships and alternative lifestyles; the merits of unchecked immigration and cultural replacement; kittens; trending interests among babies and children; celebrity gossip; cosmetics; fashion accessories, etc., etc., then they would be here already posting about it and their numbers would overwhelm any other politically incorrect posts which the notorious trolls on here want censored.

But no. They are not here. So why not? Well, just look at the cast of characters who make this exaggerated if not outright false claim of a vast untapped seam of new members. That's right, it's the serially suspended leftist trolls who spend most of their time on here. Day after day. Year after year. They have no social life in the real world so they can't possibly have scores of mates and acquaintances just waiting to join but won't until the trolls can hopefully get Admin and the Mods to ban everyone and censor topics they personally dislike.

And the serially suspended trolls who are calling for weekly bans now are proof positive that they don't work. These are the same trolls who themselves have been suspended previously for a day, a week, a month, and even years. They never learn from them and just come back more motivated to push the envelope even further each time with other members they dislike and then cry foul when their instigating posts are binned or when they are the ones sent packing once again with yet another suspension.

As I've suggested before those who have been previously suspended should be on indefinite probation and have their user privileges reduced and their daily posts limited by quantity and word count along with having their posts pre-moderated with delayed posting or never even appearing at all (not even in the bin) if Admin and the Mods find them unacceptable.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #169
As I've suggested before

Of course, such an idea would never work. Posters would rapidly leave PF, and given that other posters such as yourself thrive more on baiting and abusing other members with passive-aggressive insults while posting next to nothing about Poland, the forum would rapidly die.

Perhaps a better solution would simply be to ban insults and abuse aimed at other posters, as suggested above. I imagine your fun would quickly end when you wouldn't be able to post insults about someone's employment status or social life.
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
19 Apr 2017 #170
So you're saying that racist abuse of American Poles is now completely acceptable?

Calling a Polish person a 'Polack' is not a RACIST abuse. Polish people are not a race.

if a poster uses a racist slur to describe any poster

But, based on the above, you don't know what a 'racist slur' is. It might be more efficient to 'ban' for calling someone or something 'racist' when in fact it is not. To me when someone calls someone else a 'Polack' then the real goal is to call someone 'stupid.' But then, if we were to ban for calling someone stupid, we'd have to ban posters who disagree with each other because any form of disagreement evokes negative emotions (=abuse) and may hurt somebody's feelings.
gregy741 5 | 1,696
19 Apr 2017 #171
Calling a Polish person a 'Polack' is not a RACIST abuse

really? how bout paki then? huh?

'Polack' then the real goal is to call someone 'stupid

it could be directed towards person,but this slur describe entire nation as stupid
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #172
Calling a Polish person a 'Polack' is not a RACIST abuse. Polish people are not a race.

So, insults like "limey", "paddy", "kraut" and so on - are not racist to you?
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
19 Apr 2017 #173
They are not racist - they are offensive/derogatory, but not racist. How about a 'kiwi' - I don't find it racist either.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
19 Apr 2017 #174
Nor do I! Where I'm from, it's merely a type of fruit:-) But "Polack" and the rest?? Kinda tough to square those as meaning anything other than what they are, and that's just plain OFFENSIVE!!!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Apr 2017 #175
They are not racist - they are offensive/derogatory, but not racist.

Maybe then we're not so apart in our views after all. I think Kiwi is slightly different though, as it's not used in any insulting way.

But really Admin, one thing is coming through on this thread - people are tired of all the abuse on here. I understand why you might not want to introduce Harry's idea (certain posters would just get banned quickly and repeatedly) - but can you at least not start binning all posts that contain unprovoked insults or abuse? People posting this stuff solely to offend will soon stop doing it if the posts get binned.
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
19 Apr 2017 #176
Harry's idea.. if introduced, you and Harry would get banned every week for a week. If that's what your goal is, we'll consider it.
Bieganski 17 | 896
19 Apr 2017 #177
Of course, such an idea would never work...the forum would rapidly die.

Indefinite probation with permanently reduced privileges and pre-moderation would only be applied to the likes of you Mr. QAATT. There are only two or three more like you who would need this condition applied to them.

It would completely knock the wind out of your sails once and for good. You know this and it terrifies you. But you and your cohorts brought us all to this point and something needs to be done about you.

The forum wouldn't die. You and your fellow trolls have frequently been suspended and even for years and yet PF has still been going strong with or without you.

As I had to remind one of your cohorts the other day, we are all only registered guests here. Others are free to post whatever they want based on relevancy to Poland and moderation. Their posts may prove to be extremely popular and they certainly don't need you here to weigh in and give your consent.

Reduced privileges and pre-moderation would still allow you to continue to participate (for whatever that's worth) while curbing and mitigating the negative effects you have on the forum when you predictably relapse into antisocial behavior. It would also assist Admin and the Mods upfront by allowing them to prevent fires from starting in the first place rather than having to exert time, energy, and patience extinguishing a conflagration after it started.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
20 Apr 2017 #178
Somehow recall hearing in old movies the term "hunyak" when referring to someone of Polish heritage

Only time I ever heard that was in the movie Chicago (about a hungarian - played by a Russian woman with awful hungarian).

I had heard bohunk (but that's more czech/hungarian random central-eastern european).
OP Harry
20 Apr 2017 #179
Harry's idea.. if introduced, you and Harry would get banned every week for a week. If that's what your goal is, we'll consider it.

Please let us know if you decide to introduce it.
spiritus 69 | 666
20 Apr 2017 #180
Since my return to the forum it has been blindingly obvious to me that three members in particular appear to have an agenda.

I find it very odd that these three are the ones leading the call for suspensions to be handed out to members who misbehave and I can't help wondering is the "plan" to continue to provoke other members in the hope that they can illicit a response that gets the other person banned.

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