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Updated rules


Harry
17 Jan 2017  #1
Would it be possible to see the updated list of rules for PF? The current list is clearly out of date and no longer reflects what is and is not accepted. Given that threats of long bans are being dished out, it would be helpful for everybody to know what they can and cannot post without fear of a warning and/or a ban.
johnny reb 17 | 3,669
17 Jan 2017  #2
Just be civil, mind your own business, don't provoke by trolling, don't drink alcohol while posting, act your age and there should be nothing to fear.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,492
17 Jan 2017  #3
The above is an excellent set of rules which everybody on this forum should observe. Well done, Johnny Reb!

... don't drink alcohol while posting ...

And this rule in particular is the rule that certain posters should start with.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,423
17 Jan 2017  #4
I think that warnings against a posters username should never expire and not be removed, also it would be good to be able to see how many times they have been banned.
OP Harry
17 Jan 2017  #5
Instead of the usual trolling from the usual suspects, I was really rather hoping that we could have some guidance from the mods or admin as to what the current rules are. For example, we now have the warnable offense of "Q: This member abused the quoting feature." but the list of rules available at polishforums.com/rules-privacy-tos/ makes no mention at all of that and gives no guidance at all as to what and is not accepted when it comes to quoting.

I think that warnings against a posters username should never expire

That's an interesting idea but at the moment what warnings signify is unclear; some posters can have one number and others can't have a lower number. Some posters get a straight ban for one thing and other posters don't get even a warning for exactly the same thing. I can't see why that information has been made public given the inconsistency in warnings.
Atch 17 | 2,843
17 Jan 2017  #6
Harry's request seems reasonable to me. The existing rules are very general and in fairness they do seem to be constantly broken with no obvious consequences.

For example, from the present rules:

Blatant racial abuse will not be tolerated.

Two problems here: a) there seems to be no consensus as to what constitutes racial abuse.
and b) it's not clear whether such abuse has to be directed at an individual poster on the forum, or whether it extends to making generally racist comments about the world at large.

Messages that make no sense and/or are useless will be deleted

Will they now? That's news to me, I must say. What about our old friend Dreamer Girl who posted here for a good six months, every post without exception utter rubbish, no contribution of any kind to discussions. Yes, she/he/it was suspended a couple of times but the messages weren't deleted and her reign of inanity continued for much longer than it should have done by any moderator's standards.

Posters should avoid discussing religious, racial, or very personal subjects
That rule simply doesn't work. It's inevitable that religion and race are going to come into discussions. Maybe once upon a time the person who started this forum believed it would be largely about folk music, recipes and scenic places in Polska but that ship has sailed.In any case Poland is a predominantly Catholic country and actually it's a very interesting topic, the transition of Poland from a deeply conservative Catholic nation to a more secular and liberal one. Furthermore, a lot of the discussions on this forum are about politics and that involves both race and religion, especially with the present situation in Europe.

Posters should refrain from using abusive or derogatory language
Really? Is that a rule here? Words fail me.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,492
17 Jan 2017  #7
Harry's request seems reasonable to me.

Let's be serious, Atch. Harry has opened up this thread to stir the pot really. There's nothing to worry about the existing rules.

Don't you think that if everyone stuck to these very general rules as described by JR, you wouldn't have to create any specific ones.
OP Harry
17 Jan 2017  #8
the existing rules.

OK, so perhaps you'd like to explain the rule for "Q: This member abused the quoting feature." Although given that you don't hand out the warnings for breaches of it, it would be better if a mod can explain it. That's just one example, there are others.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,492
17 Jan 2017  #9
That's just one example

Ok, this one is valid. Besides, what's "abusing the quoting feature"? Is it quoting constantly above the limit slightly or is it quoting a very very large fragment at a time? This should indeed be described in more detail.
Atch 17 | 2,843
17 Jan 2017  #10
Let's be serious, Atch.

No, you be serious Ziem.

as described by JR

Are you 'avin' a laff??

be civil, mind your own business, don't provoke by trolling,

This coming from Johnny of all people. Yes I'm very fond of Johnny as indeed I am of you dear Ziemikins, but I know my boys very well and it's the pair of you who are doing the provoking and trolling on this thread.

Harry may indeed have raised the issue just to be awkward, he never loses an opportunity :)) I'm also very fond of Harry of course. I love all the children etc etc blah, blah. But, the motives in my view are less important than the substance. And the substance is very pertinent. The rules could do with an overhaul, but no amount of overhauling will make any difference unless they are properly enforced.
OP Harry
17 Jan 2017  #11
Besides, what's "abusing the quoting feature"? Is it quoting constantly above the limit slightly or is it quoting a very very large fragment at a time?

Your guess is as good as mine. I know I got a warning for it, but I have no idea what it was for. I know it wasn't for changing a quote so as to make it appear somebody said something they didn't say (although I have seen those going without drawing a warning). I know it wasn't for having lots and lots of quote in a post (although I have seen those going without drawing a warning). I know it wasn't for failing to attribute a quote or for quoting more than 50 words and thus breaking copyright law (although I have seen those going without drawing a warning).

I did ask what it was for but apparently it wasn't serious enough to get a reply, just a warning.

it's the pair of you who are doing the provoking and trolling on this thread.

Exactly, but we supposedly have the "T - This member trolls.", just another example of what the rules mean being unknown.
Chemikiem 6 | 1,950
17 Jan 2017  #12
The above is an excellent set of rules which everybody on this forum should observe. Well done, Johnny Reb!

JR has broken almost every single one of those 'rules' himself, so I hardly think he is in any position to state what others should do.

gives no guidance at all as to what and is not accepted when it comes to quoting.

It is supposed to be for excessive quoting:-

https://polishforums.com/feedback/member-warning-system-prevent-abuse-spam-off-73437/#msg1466418
However it isn't possible to quote more than a certain amount of words now without having to edit your post, so I am unsure what Q refers to these days. Originally it was to stop posters quoting whole chunks of other poster's text and to post only sections that were actually relevant.
Wulkan - | 3,251
17 Jan 2017  #13
Exactly, but we supposedly have the "T - This member trolls."

Yes, and you have two T's
TheOther 5 | 3,717
17 Jan 2017  #14
The whole warning system is nonsense. Get rid of it. Instead, ban Holocaust deniers and similar Nazi f*ucks right away, and don't allow guest accounts to post in the Off Topic section.
Lyzko 22 | 6,543
17 Jan 2017  #15
I agree in principle.
johnny reb 17 | 3,669
17 Jan 2017  #16
but I know my boys

I ain't your 'boy' Scooter and as bad as you want to manipulate us 'boys' here I remind you that you aren't on the payroll here.

No, you be serious Ziem.

He is being serious Atch, there is ONLY person on this forum that has a problem with rules and that is because of good reason and that reason is that he was just warned that one more warning and he was going to be suspended AGAIN for six months this time.

I hate to be so candid but damn it girl, wake up and quit your pretending so you can play queen of the 'boys' here.

it's the pair of you who are doing the provoking and trolling on this thread.

No, we were using sarcastic humor because of the hilarious "poor me" whining.

I love all the children

Again Scooter we are not your 'children'. I think your day job has gone to your head Miss Control Freak.

JR has broken almost every single one of those 'rules' himself, so I hardly think he is in any position to state what others should do.

Admitted as has everyone else Pam.
It is required unless you are going to let everyone who thinks they are in charge here lift their leg and **** all over you.

My goal here was to stand up to the Brit Bullies and run them the hell out of here so we could get more Polish members posting.

In doing so I had to break the same rules that they were breaking to level the playing field.
The attitude here is and has been, "How dare those Americans come here to post on an American forum about Poland and dare post anything about America on it as the Brits have had control of this forum since the beginning of it."

Well Pam I have had to stand up to you also which has put a burr under your saddle forever to think an American would dare challenge you.

We are all adults here and if you don't know by now in life that you have to give respect to get respect then don't cry when someone puts you in your place when you are out of order.

This thread should be called the relentless mosquito thread as Har keeps bringing this up over and over and over and just can't seem to take the "hint" that he is being ignored by the mods for a reason.

And that reason is that he has brought his warnings and suspensions on himself continuously starting from the get go of this forum and still has not learned.

Now that all his allies have either been kicked out of the sandbox (suspended) or just left on their own for continuously being called out on their insults and bullying he feels helpless not to have his gang here to back him up.

Be ready to eat from the same dish you serve.
In my opinion.......If everyone would just stay on topic there would be very few warnings or suspensions.
Lets give that one simple rule a try for one week and see how smooth things go.
My gosh people, we are all one big family here ya know "children".
And lastly, let's all thank (and show some respect) to the administrator here for the enjoyment that he provides for all of us here at no charge.
OP Harry
17 Jan 2017  #17
JR has broken almost every single one of those 'rules' himself, so I hardly think he is in any position to state what others should do.

What can one expect from a poster who openly boasts about how much he enjoys abusing women. The fact that he wasn't permanently banned when he admitted what he'd done while posting under a previous username is a damning indictment of this forum.

ban Holocaust deniers and similar Nazi f*ucks right away

The problem is, as notorious troll trener zolwia / Llamatic / etc demonstrates, that such low-life simply get banned and then come back with a new username and pretend to have never done things such as claiming to be their own daughter.
johnny reb 17 | 3,669
17 Jan 2017  #18
Did I hit your little nut nerve Har ?
Your desperation of lies just proved my point.

.......If everyone would just stay on topic there would be very few warnings or suspensions.

TheOther 5 | 3,717
17 Jan 2017  #19
My goal here was to stand up to the Brit Bullies and run them the hell out of here so we could get more Polish members posting.

You're sooooooooo brave, Johnny, and you sure have a "bigly" ego. Tell us: was your endeavor successful or did your posts actually drive away decent guests and new members and attract ultra right-wing scum instead?
OP Harry
17 Jan 2017  #20
was your endeavour successful

That's an interesting question but I'd better answer it in the bin as it's off-topic here and I'd be very grateful if everybody could please stick to the topic of this thread.
TheOther 5 | 3,717
18 Jan 2017  #21
it's off-topic here

Okay, let me rephrase it then: it's bleeding obvious that the warning system doesn't work. So why would we need an explanation of such a system or yet another list of useless rules for PF? Waste of time IMO.
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
18 Jan 2017  #22
The whole warning system is nonsense.

So if you break a single rule, one time (could be by mistake), we should ban you rightaway?

ban *** deniers

Ok, maybe you'll come up with a list of deniers that should be banned. For a start:

- God deniers,
- Global warming deniers,
- Smolensk crash-plane deniers,
- Spherical-Earth deniers,
- Extraterrestrial deniers,
- Organic food deniers,

etc.

How would it work in your ideal world? If we start banning for opinions, where would it end?

there seems to be no consensus as to what constitutes racial abuse.

Correct - there is actually no consensus on most things.

That's news to me, I must say.

Have you missed the Random Chat topic, regularly removed from this site.

That rule simply doesn't work.

What do you mean it 'doesn't work.' - the rule states that we prefer not to discuss such topic, but we don't ban for doing so.

A set of rules is a guidance. If you regularity abuse it, you are likely to get a warning or a ban. At the same time, rules are not equal; abusing or trolling will get caught faster than posting an off-topic message, for example.
TheOther 5 | 3,717
18 Jan 2017  #23
If we start banning for opinions, where would it end?

I largely agree with you on the free speech issue, as you know, but then you will have to ask yourself: why would we need a warning system or "a set of rules as guidance", as you say, if everything is fair game? It's all freedom of speech then - personal insults, Holocaust denial and homophobia included.

Maybe we should drop all rules and try anarchy instead for a while? ;)
Admin 32 | 1,530 Administrator
18 Jan 2017  #24
Not everything is fair game - the warnings are very helpful to moderators to see a pattern of rule violations or other abuses. There is no anarchy here - if there was, this topic would not exist and there would be no complaints about too much rules or lack of rules.
Marsupial - | 888
18 Jan 2017  #25
I dont know why you allow every topic about Poland to be turned into a topic about serbia?
TheOther 5 | 3,717
18 Jan 2017  #26
Not everything is fair game

Calling someone a Trumpanzee or a Libtard could be interpreted as a political statement or an insult. What makes a simple personal attack so much worse than Holocaust denial for example that it calls for a warning or suspension and the other one not? Who decides?

...if there was, this topic would not exist and there would be no complaints about too much rules or lack of rules.

Makes anarchy sound even more attractive.
Atch 17 | 2,843
18 Jan 2017  #27
Have you missed the Random Chat topic, regularly removed from this site.

Oh now that's stretching it a bit. I'm afraid that wholesale deletion of 'Random Ramblings' within an equally random time frame hardly counts. But that's actually a very typical example of how the rules are open to all kinds of interpretation because they are extremely general and vague. They imply, rather than state directly. I notice that the moderators have no hesitation in deleting posts from low lifes advertising fake passports for sale so they're obviously capable of acting promptly to delete inappropriate content, but posts such as 'So-and-So has a big willy' get left in place for months. Here's a revised version for you:

'Messages that make no sense and/or are useless will be deleted -eventually.'

That will strike terror into the heart of trolls, don't you think?

ban Holocaust deniers

Ok, maybe you'll come up with a list of deniers that should be banned.

There are certain accepted norms in our society, certain conventions and views that are generally agreed upon. The acceptance of the Holocaust as fact is one of them. Because of the deaths and terrible suffering of so many people during the Holocaust, it is considered disrespectful by our society to their memory and to their surviving families to deny that it happened. On the other hand, for as long as our society has believed in a concept of God, which seems to be pretty much for all of human existence, discussion on whether or not God exists has been an established topic for debate and discussion in civilised circles. I think we all know that what's being referred to here is largely Adrian's posts, which ran to tens of thousands of words on the themes of Zionism and the Holocaust, an absolutely relentless stream of anti-Semitism which was totally inappropriate and which most members here found utterly repugnant. The Admin should be very embarrassed to have allowed that situation to arise at all and then to fail to deal with it.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,423
18 Jan 2017  #28
I see no problems with the current rules or the quality of moderation on this forum, the mods give plenty of unofficial warnings and advice prior to giving a warning against a user name.

It is understandable that the repeat offenders on this site may not get a hint prior to a warning because they have proved that they are not prepared to stick to the rules and respect the instructions of the moderators.

98% of the bemoaners on this thread are repeat offenders themselves, stick to the rules and behave, or clear off and find another forum to polute.

Ironic that its the offenders want to change the rules to suit their own ends.

The opinion of multiple offenders should carry no weight on this forum.
OP Harry
18 Jan 2017  #29
Ironic that its the offenders want to change the rules to suit their own ends.

Did you miss the part of the first post which asks "to see the updated list of rules for PF"? Or are you simply responding to what I didn't say because you are unable to respond to what I do say?

I see no problems with the current rules

OK, so perhaps you can explain what the "Q: This member abused the quoting feature." warning means? A former mod has said that it used to be for excessive quoting but that now it isn't possible to quote more than a certain amount of words. If you see no problem with the rule, clearly you must be able to explain it. So please do that.

The opinion of multiple offenders should carry no weight on this forum.

The tiny problem with that is then all posters would need to do is register for a new account and suddenly their formerly weightless views carry weight. Sadly there are people who post under one username until they have become shunned and then they register for a new username. One such person has posted in this thread: he once posted about how he enjoyed abusing a female mod here but forgot that that mod stopped being a mod before he registered for his current account. In the model you propose he could just register for a new username and he'd have more say than widely respected posters such as Atch (right now he wouldn't, as he's a multiple offender under his latest username).
dolnoslask 5 | 2,423
18 Jan 2017  #30
see the updated list of rules for PF

Where are these rules , who told you there is a new set of rules that are somehow secret.

The current published list of rules are fine and in my opinion are well enforced by the moderators

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