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No blanket statements on PF - clarification

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25 Sep 2012  #31

Will this change now?

Freedom of speech will never change on PF. But if there is a pattern suggesting that a forum user is continuously posting blank racist or derogatory statements against a nation or a group of people, such user will be permanently suspended.

OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
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25 Sep 2012  #32

Sorry Delphiandomine,This means from anyone.
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,933
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25 Sep 2012  #33

But if there is a pattern suggesting that a forum user is continuously posting blank racist or derogatory statements against a nation or a group of people, such user will be permanently suspended.

Perfect, although we need to talk about the word "continuously" here. How often is "continuously"? 3 times, 4 times, 100 times? What's your take on this?
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #34

Freedom of speech will never change on PF. But if there is a pattern suggesting that a forum user is continuously posting blank racist or derogatory statements against a nation or a group of people, such user will be permanently suspended.

So as long as it isn't systematic, racism is still fine?

I still think it would be easier to do what Dave's ESL does and ban people for racist comments. Much easier and encourages a much higher level of conversation. But it's your forum :)

Sorry Delphiandomine,This means from anyone.

A very sensible ruling - and one that I totally support. You'll get the backing from quite a few posters here - we're all sick to death of reading crap like "the racist nation of Israel" and whacko conspiracy theories involving Jews.
Wroclaw Boy  
25 Sep 2012  #35

Your thoughts PF members..

I had issues with it years ago and voiced them, then i basically gave up, it did used to be worse if thats any consolation.

My thoughts - you need to clarify what you mean. Are you prohibiting blanket statements by everyone, or not? Can I expect to post without being called a "bitter expat", "limey" and other such abuse?

Prolonged, specific harassment Delph - aimed at members, its not rocket science, you know exactly what hes talking about. I dont understand what your beef is with American Poles, its pretty weird really. Were you buggered by one as a child or something?

You'll get the backing from quite a few posters here - we're all sick to death of reading crap like "the racist nation of Israel" and whacko conspiracy theories involving Jews.

But that doesnt equate to attacking specific posters as you and Batman do - constantly. Yeap hes Batman so that makes you Robin.
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25 Sep 2012  #36

Perfect, although we need to talk about the word "continuously" here. How often is "continuously"? 3 times, 4 times, 100 times? What's your take on this?

If someone wonders if the word 'continuously may apply to him/her - it is usually a good indication that he/she may be banned.

we're all sick to death of reading crap like "the racist nation of Israel" and whacko conspiracy theories involving Jews.

If you want to know, you and 'Harry' are on top of the list to be suspended. Being smarty pants won't let help you guys much this time.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
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25 Sep 2012  #37

Delphiandomine,Whether you believe it or not,I have many times removed comments like that and on different occasions warned people.I am objective.and this is going to apply to everyone.The ones that have been doing this the most frequently should really really consider knocking it off.So Delphiandomine I am glad that you and I see eye to eye on this..
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #38

If you want to know, you and 'Harry' are on top of the list to be suspended. Being smarty pants won't let help you guys much this time.

It helped before, did it? ;)

Delphiandomine,Whether you believe it or not,I have many times removed comments like that and on different occasions warned people.I am objective.and this is going to apply to everyone.The ones that have been doing this the most frequently should really really consider knocking it off.So Delphiandomine I am glad that you and I see eye to eye on this..

You and I see perfect eye to eye on this - I'm very happy that it's finally being cracked down on publicly. It's no issue at all to drop the "Polonia" stuff in exchange for not hearing rubbish like "bitter expats", "limeys", "pakis", "racist Jews" and all the other stuff.

The fact that you're openly telling people to knock it off is even better - there can be no excuses now for the posting of this stuff.
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,933
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25 Sep 2012  #39

If someone wonders if the word 'continuously may apply to him/her - it is usually a good indication that he/she may be banned.

Are you a psychic that you can read people's minds? I guess what you are saying is that it depends on your and the moderators' personal taste when enough is enough... :)

for not hearing rubbish like "bitter expats", "limeys", "pakis", "racist Jews" and all the other stuff.

I believe it when I see it.
Admin Activity: 31 / 1,490
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25 Sep 2012  #40

Exactly. It depends 100% on moderators' personal taste (that's why not everybody can be a moderator). There's no other way (unless we make the forum pre-moderated and send each post to a judge who would approve or disapprove it). Or maybe you have another idea.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #41

I believe it when I see it.

Let's give P3 a chance - he's made it clear that enough is enough, so he deserves a chance at keeping his word.

Or maybe you have another idea.

Ban racist statements full stop, regardless of reason. Put (instantly) any topics about race in the off-topic section and make sure that it's only accessible to those who have posted more than (for instance) - 10 times. Those two things will soon eliminate much of the nasty stuff on PF and not require moderator discretion or taste.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
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25 Sep 2012  #42

The Other,I've made it clear where I stand on the issue and naturally it's going to boil down to this;Is it habitual or is it reactionary.If posters desist in this behavior,then this will not be an issue.
4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
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25 Sep 2012  #43

naturally it's going to boil down to this;Is it habitual or is it reactionary.If posters desist in this behavior,then this will not be an issue

well said, p3. Keep up the good work.
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,933
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25 Sep 2012  #44

There's no other way

Probably not, although I still haven't given up hope that the most extreme racists will be prevented from using PF as a platform somewhen in the future. At some point they will hurt your business - first amendment or not.
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25 Sep 2012  #45

Ban racist statements full stop, regardless of reason.

It is very possible to use 'racist words' without being a racist. Moderators can determine if there's a pattern and the context of the message.
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
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25 Sep 2012  #46

It is no good that the Polonians have taken over this forum. Even less so that the admin and mods kowtow to their fanacitism.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #47

Probably not, although I still haven't given up hope that the most extreme racists will be prevented from using PF as a platform somewhen in the future. At some point they will hurt your business - first amendment or not.

The actual easiest way is as I said above - put all the racist stuff in the off-topic section immediately. The hysterical response that usually results tells you all you need to know - racists don't like when their posts can't be found on Google.

It is very possible to use 'racist words' without being a racist. Moderators can determine if there's a pattern and the context of the message.

Do you think it's possible to use words like "paki" and "limey" without being racist in any context except when quoting someone?
4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
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25 Sep 2012  #48

It is no good that the Polonians have taken over this forum

it's up for debate whether it is really the case or not but tell me please, is it better when non-Polonians are constantly "criticizing" Polonians for being Polonians?
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,933
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25 Sep 2012  #49

The actual easiest way is as I said above - put all the racist stuff in the off-topic section immediately.

It's actually not that easy if we follow the admin's argument that "it is very possible to use 'racist words' without being a racist." What you consider to be offensive might be seen as fair play by the moderators. So it all boils down to the definition of 'racist' and how the moderators interprete it.
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25 Sep 2012  #50

Do you think it's possible to use words like "paki" and "limey" without being racist in any context except when quoting someone?

There was a movie where two British Pakistani people jokingly called each other 'paki.' IF the word 'paki' is not racist for THEM, it is not racist for me, either. Why should it be? Should I claim to know their culture more than they do?
4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
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25 Sep 2012  #51

and how the moderators interprete it.

I believe that it's not really what you say but how you say it. It's perfectly OK to have an unpopular opinion as long as the way you say it, doesn't directly insult anyone.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
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25 Sep 2012  #52

4 eigner,thank you,Delph if someone is not a racist,but is using a racist word;then being reminded not to use the word should stop them from using it,if they do continue,then I think we're talking about something else altogether different.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #53

I believe that it's not really what you say but how you say it. It's perfectly OK to have an unpopular opinion as long as the way you say it, doesn't directly insult anyone.

But P3 has just made it clear that unpopular racist opinions are a no-no, even if it doesn't directly insult anyone.

There was a movie where two British Pakistani people jokingly called each other 'paki.' IF the word 'paki' is not racist for THEM, it is not racist for me, either. Why should it be? Should I claim to know their culture more than they do?

But you have some Polish-Americans on here calling themselves Polack - does it mean that it's okay for us to use it, too? I know some Pakistanis who would be utterly appalled at anyone (even their own) using the word "paki".
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,933
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25 Sep 2012  #54

I believe that it's not really what you say but how you say it. It's perfectly OK to have an unpopular opinion as long as the way you say it, doesn't directly insult anyone.

I agree with you, but it will always be a balancing act.
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
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25 Sep 2012  #55

it's up for debate whether it is really the case or not but tell me please, is it better when non-Polonians are constantly "criticizing" Polonians for being Polonian[/quote]

For me it is rather the case that Polonians pretending how better to run this country - and that is the essence I think. The mods who - from what I gather from their comments, but I could be mistaken - do not live in Poland as well concur in that. Because basically it is a PolAm forum, populated, steered and administered by people in Chicago and further on

The non-Poles who live here since many years and love this country and its people, are being snowed under by hate messages
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
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25 Sep 2012  #56

Sobieski,I don't like when I see it either way and I will address these instances as they come up and I'm sure the other mods feel the same way.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,748
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25 Sep 2012  #57

Well, you made it crystal clear in this thread that there was to be no more of the blanket racist nonsense anymore. :)

You'll win a lot of respect from us in Poland if you put a stop to it.
peterweg Activity: 36 / 2,270
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25 Sep 2012  #58

A very sensible ruling - and one that I totally support. You'll get the backing from quite a few posters here - we're all sick to death of reading crap like "the racist nation of Israel" and whacko conspiracy theories involving Jews.

Thats the root and real purpose of your and Harry's behavior isn't it, banning criticism of your mother land?

I agree with you that most of it is rubbish, but there is apartheid - based on race - in Israel, saying that is not racist.
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Administrator  
25 Sep 2012  #59

But you have some Polish-Americans on here calling themselves Polack - does it mean that it's okay for us to use it, too?

For me, it is OK to use the word 'Polack' on PolishForums (as long as there is no pattern saying that the poster's agenda is to discredit Poland or Polish nation as a whole). I personally don't find this word offensive despite the fact I'm Polish.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #60

Admin,if some one doesn't like to be called that,then they should let others know.I myself am not offended by that.It's when someone puts dumb in front of it and an s after the k that I find it offensive.




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No blanket statements on PF - clarification
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