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No blanket statements on PF - clarification


p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #1

Delphiandomine,Perhaps this would be more clear;No more blanket statements.about Polonia or any other group.If you can't address individual posters without insulting them or referring to them in the same manner,then I suggest that you just don't respond.This is not up for debate.......

delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,772
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #2

P3 - excellent. For the first time on PF, a mod has decided that blanket statements aren't allowed. Does this policy apply to all equally, and if so, what are the consequences?

Also, are the other moderators aware of this? It has been common on this forum for years to abuse Brits, Jews, Poles, blacks, 'pakis' and more - can we look forward to this no longer existing on PF?

You might just have single handedly improved PF considerably...
Polonius3 Activity: 981 / 11,688
Joined: 11 Apr 2008 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #3

to abuse Brits, Jews, Poles, blacks, 'pakis'

Is this an example of your selective PC mentality that you have conveniently ignored Polonians -- the one's you have signeld out for particular abuse. You have also failed to mention Catholics, an other of your bête noires and whipping boys on whom, according to you, there is perpetual open season.
Orpheus Activity: - / 116
Joined: 22 Sep 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #4

Catholics, an other of your bête noires and whipping boys on whom, according to you, there is perpetual open season.

That's rich coming from you Polonius. You refer to feminists as fascists, anyone to the left of Genghis Khan is, to you, a bleeding heart liberal, and those of us who do not subscribe to your extreme Catholicism are libertines on the highway to hell.
boletus Activity: 30 / 1,367
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #5

P3 - excellent. For the first time on PF, a mod has decided that blanket statements aren't allowed. Does this policy apply to all equally, and if so, what are the consequences?

Do not play an innocent angel now, Delphi. This is nothing new in the Forum guidelines. Some of them are posted in bold, right under the edit box:

- Do not insult or harass others, play nicely!
- Do not personally attack others to avoid temporary or permanent suspension
Let me add to it a little definition of rasizm, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism:

Racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination, and superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere.

Also, are the other moderators aware of this? It has been common on this forum for years to abuse Brits, Jews, Poles, blacks, 'pakis' and more - can we look forward to this no longer existing on PF?

Delphi, do not try deflecting your own aggression into abusers of others in other threads. We are talking about this thread, which was set up to be insulting and harassing from the very start. And the main hero of this production is no other than you. So let us go through it with a coarse brush:

Sep 18, 12, 22:08. Sobieski: Starts with baying at Polonia, followed by

They long back for the Kresy, where "everybody knew his place".

Comment: Some do long, most do not care. Polish population of Kresy was in the range of 1 million or so and it was very diverse. There were peasants, settlers, petty nobles (szaraczkowa szlachta), land owners, bureaucrats, soldiers, city dwellers: some poor, some well to do - from doctors to university professors. The sweeping generalization of Sobieski implies something I do not understand, but hopefully Delph will oblige soon.

Sep 18, 12, 22:14. delhiandomine: And he does indeed. He clarifies that it was all about Jews to know their place. And he implies that every "racist clueless moron of North American Polonia" is descendant of Kresowiacy and therefore is antisemitic, more or less.

Comment: Both Sobieski and Delph are completely ignorant of complexity of social relations there, but yet it does not stop them from spitting their filth from the very start. Nice progression Delph: From Kresy to Polonia and hence antisemitism of every "racist clues moron of the North American Polonia". Well sir, this must include me in that set because part of my family came from Kresy and I live in Toronto, therefore - according to you - I must be 'racist clueless moron' and antisemite too. So you violated both guidelines by insulting entire group of people, including myself. I consider it a personal attack on my family and myself. This is your first violation of the Forum guidelines.

Sep 18, 12, 23:09. delhiandomine:

people who use words like "Busia" are Grade A certifiable morons

Comment: Aside of being boring, idiotic and illogical this sweeping statement of yours violates the guidelines again. Strike 2.

Sep 19, 12, 15:51. delhiandomine: (refering to an example of prominent Polonians):

They exist? And if so, they're a tiny, tiny, tiny minority in a sea of overwhelming stupidity.

Comment: That's strike number 3, Delph. Harrasment of 1 million Polish Canadian, and 11 millions of Polish Americans. That includes engineers, scientists, musicians, poets, actors, architects, artists, authors, filmmakers, journalists, businessmen. And with all due respect, Delph: who are you by profession? A busybody? What gives you a right to call them overhelmingly stupid? What gives you a right to refer this way to me and to all my dear Polish Canadian friends, who live here, and who - I must add - all belong to one of these categories I listed above?

Sep 20, 12, 01:17. delhiandomine:

It's just a sad fact of life that many of the so-called Polonia in America are nothing but descendants of racist village peasants from lands which we don't speak of in civilised circles. They carry on the proud traditions 100 years later, such as Jew-hating.

Comment: That counts for two violations, five so far: an exemplary racism and accusation of 12 millions of NA Polonians of antisemitism. That's bad example of generalization on both counts. Firstly, there is nothing shameful of "lands which we don't speak of in civilised circles". You obviosly mean Kresy. Secondly, some Kresowiacy could be peasants, but many - if not most - were and are of much higher culture and education than you will ever have, mister. Shame on you. Some Kresowiacy included and include Polonized Jews. Some of them feel right at home around Polonia. You are the real ignoramus.

Sep 21, 12, 00:50. delhiandomine:(in response to BBman)

what kind of family you come from - the worst kind. Mine doesn't have such feelings, but then again, we aren't racist village dwellers too.

Jealous of what, a bunch of morons with an identity crisis in North America?

the North American ones are nothing but peasant emigrants.

Comment:Strike 7, 8 and 9, Delph. Personal and group attacks.

Sep 21, 12, 01:31. delhiandomine:

BBman is a great example - he thinks that he's better than the rest of them because his Polish family are racist backwater village morons.

Comment: Violation 10

September 23, 09:27.delhiandomine:

The problem is p3 that attacking individual posters isn't allowed, so making blanket statements about the stupidity and racism of Polonia is the only way forward.

Comment:Strange logic. How about just stopping abusing either individuals or groups and concentrate on discussing issues, pointing errors, etc.?

(you must admit - anyone using the word "Busia" or similar is worthy of being called dumb)

Comment: Violation 11. I am getting tired of this, Delph. From now on I am going to call my Babcia Busia. Sounds interesting.

September 23, 09:56. delhiandomine:

It's a word used by particularly dumb Polish-Americans who insist that it's a Polish word for grandmother, despite not one of them managing to prove its existence in any Polish dictionary. The closest we came was discovering the use in Kashubian, which isn't Polish. You'll find lots of examples of PF of the word being used.

Comment:Violation 12. That's personal attack against me. I already pointed to your lie in another message here. But I am the one who insists that "busia" is perfectly Polish word, and therefore you are adressing me as "particularly dumb Polish-American".

How about it, angel. 12 violations so far. And I am not even counting the two spectacular messages that are sitting now as ( #3305, #3,307) in Random thread: You and Harry referred to Dess in abusive, although coveted way, but - according to your bargain with Vincent - you supposed to stay away from him.

Now you mention it, it is strange how the racist ones often claim Polish roots (although that could just be because they are attempting to claim something which they believe to be a sort of racial superiority and in reality they are either an unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian).

Comment: I particularly like this one. Atlacking racism by showing the worst ever racism possible. You must hate Dess so much, that you forgot about all your cunning restraints, and you blew up with the worst racism possible: "unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian". Classy.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #6

I particularly like this one. Atlacking racism by showing the worst ever racism possible.

Really? Could you perhaps point out what racism there is in pointing out that it's amusing to see a group of certain racist self-declared members of Polonia claiming to be members of what they appear to consider to be a 'superior' racial group when in reality they are not members of that group (know any pure-blood Poles do you?) but instead members of another wider group or a different group? I'd love to see you try. What statements (negative or positive) am I making about any racial group?

What characteristics am I attributing to any persons on the basis of their race? The answers are very clearly 'none' and 'none'. So in fact you are being less than truthful when you claim that I am showing racism. Such a pity that you are so desperate to attack me that you have to resort to being untruthful.

You must hate Dess so much, that you forgot about all your cunning restraints, and you blew up with the worst racism possible: "unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian". Classy.

Nice attempt at drawing me into making a comment on a specific named poster, better luck next time.

As for the worst racism possible: firstly, you can't find anything racist in what I said; and secondly, for racism I suggest you look at the posts of the members of Polonia you seek to defend and their ranting about Jews and Brits and casual usage of racial slurs such as "Paki".
boletus Activity: 30 / 1,367
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #7

Nice attempt at drawing me into making a comment on a specific named poster, better luck next time.

I do not have to draw you to anything. You did it all to yourself. Here is your entire post, with the reference to the appropriate thread and therefore easy traceable to Des Essientes. Gross violation of your agreement with Vincent.

(moved to random #3,307). Harry:

Now you mention it, it is strange how the racist ones often claim Polish roots (although that could just be because they are attempting to claim something which they believe to be a sort of racial superiority and in reality they are either an unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian)."

'Yes, and everybody here needs to remember that "There are almost no basements in the entire state of California." and that somebody who I will not name "reside[s] in Southern California". Which means that he does not view being called a 'basement dweller' an insult; on the contrary, his reaction is "Hahahahahahahahaha!"

delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,772
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #8

Boletus, you appear to have missed the point. It doesn't matter what I said, I'm only asking for confirmation that blanket comments are now banned. Other moderators have previously made it clear that they were tolerated as long as they weren't personal - hence P3 has now drastically changed PF if he intends to enforce such a rule.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #9

I do not have to draw you to anything

What an excellent way of detracting attention from your utter inability to support the falsehoods you wish to peddle about my post being "the worst ever racism possible" or even racist at all in any way.

Gross violation of your agreement with Vincent.

What an original interpretation: the instruction from Vincent can be found here. I'll reproduce it for your pleasure: "Harry , please keep your side of the bargain and don't insult any individual members by name in future posts, this is against the rules." Said ruling was restated here (Harry: "Fair enough, I assume you mean 'don't mention Dessie by name as an example', correct?"

[Vincent] I would prefer it if you removed the letter "D" completely from your keyboard, but failing that, yes you are correct.)

I was wondering why you didn't link to the post you wish to quote from. Now I look at the post itself (here), I think I may understand why: you have edited my post. You have removed the statement from Delph which I was commenting on so as to make my post look at if the second paragraph was a direct follow-on from the first and not something different.

So, you falsely claim that my posts are racist (and then refuse to show how they are so), you mis-state what my agreement with Vincent was and you selectively edit my posts. Who exactly is being dishonest and abusive here?
boletus Activity: 30 / 1,367
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #10

Harry:
^^
I do not care, you explain it all to Vincent. For me it is all clear: you again attacked Des, hiding behind some coveted statements, but clearly decodable by us Polonia morons. There was no justification for doing so. And yes, you were clearly racist in that last sentence of yours. How is it important who Des parents are, and why makes it him less Polonia if they are of other ethnic group, such as an "unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian "?

Boletus, you appear to have missed the point. It doesn't matter what I said, I'm only asking for confirmation that blanket comments are now banned. Other moderators have previously made it clear that they were tolerated as long as they weren't personal - hence P3 has now drastically changed PF if he intends to enforce such a rule.

You see, I have no power of decision here but I am entitled to my own interpretation of the Forum guidelines. In my view you committed multiple violations of those. And I do not like that. You should have back down after my warning in post #31; the thread would die down and everything would go back to normal. But you did not. Nothing personal Delph. You are likeable sometimes.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #11

For me it is all clear: you again attacked Des, hiding behind some coveted statements, but clearly decodable by us Polonia morons.

Again, despite your attempts, I am not going to make a comment on a named poster.

As for "us Polonia morons", please note that I have always maintained that some Polonia are very nice people and some Polonia are racist morons. That is the same in every racial group: there are good people and bad people in it.

And yes, you were clearly racist in that last sentence of yours. How is it important who Des parents are, and why makes it him less Polonia if they are of other ethnic group, such as an "unknown blend of European blood or just Ukrainian "?

One more time: I'm not going to make any comment on a named poster.

But perhaps we think that the word "Polonia" means different things: to me Polonia are diaspora, i.e. Poles. What does it mean for you? Would a Spaniard of mixed European blood be Polonia? Would it be racist to say that he is not?
TheOther Activity: 5 / 3,052
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #12

to me Polonia are diaspora, i.e. Poles.

Take the largest European Polonia, the German one. They've been living in that country for a very long time; totally assimilated. Do you really believe that these people feel Polish in any way? Same is true for the vast majority of the American Polonia, or any other Polonia around the world. To have Polish ancestors doesn't make you a Pole. Otherwise 17% of the American population would call themselves German, and 70% of the Aussie one British.
Less777 Activity: - / 56
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #13

Would it be racist to say that he is not?

It is racist to assume that members of certain ethnicities must be of a "pure blood".
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #14

Less, possibly, but care to quote where I ever said they should be?
4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
Joined: 15 Aug 2011 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #15

and 70% of the Aussie one British.

you'll be surprised, I've met a girl from Australia and she told me, "we're basically British".
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #16

Delphiandomine,I was going to give you a response,but boletus beat me to the punch and broke it down better than I could have ever dreamed of doing.Thank you boletus.when has making the types of statements you have said about Polonia.ever been allowed?So I figure in essence that by saying not to do this would be drastically changing the format of PF and perhaps a slight to my fellow mods and admin. by initiating this drastic new policy without discussing it with them,in your eyes huh?I tried to be diplomatic and ask that you refrain from this and what did you say?So it's not going to be diplomatic anymore.If you make the type of statements that boletus quoted and perhaps maybe "blanket statement" was the wrong word,so we'll go with common sense.Expect to be warned and if you persist,suspended.I'm dead serious about this.I gave you this response because You seemed not to know what I was referring to.Hopefully you will simply refrain.That is the last response from me on that matter.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #17

P3, can we expect that your rule applies to those who make blanket statements about 'Pakis' or 'Brits' or 'bitter expats'? I hope so.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #18

Harry,Did you read boletus's response to delph?
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #19

P3, frankly, no: I read the bits of his post about me, noted the untruths (as pointed out here and detailed) and realised there was no point reading the rest. Please do feel welcome to highlight ant parts you think I would benefit from reading.
Less777 Activity: - / 56
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #20

What bout "sweet expats"?lol
Are you sure you are all men? Cat-fighting like that? lol!
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,508
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #21

Less, sorry but I missed your point, can you make it again with quotes plse so I can reply to it (tomorrow, now it's pub time in Poland)
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
24 Sep 2012  #22

Harry,Well read the statements that he quoted from delph and apply that logic to this.If I'm out of line then admin. will pull me up.I haven't been a mod or a member for a long time,but I have seen these types of remarks binned before and after I became a mod.It's actually really sad that one would need to be asked not to do this instead of using discretion.So as far as being a new rule,I seriously doubt it because even you qualify your statements and they can't be deemed as racist.Those statements can be.It's almost like someone is jumping at the excuse to do this because they can't single someone else out.The answer is simple if you can't address some one without insulting them then don't.Did you think about how it sounds?If I can't down you then I'll classify your people that way and that way you're covered as well..
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,772
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #23

Thank you boletus.when has making the types of statements you have said about Polonia.ever been allowed?

They've actually always been allowed - PF has never prohibited such statements. It's been deleted, but Vincent also made it clear that such statements (without mentioning a poster's name directly) were allowed as long as it wasn't an attack on an individual. Hence why - if you're now saying that blanket statements are prohibited, you've just changed PF drastically and for the better.

So I figure in essence that by saying not to do this would be drastically changing the format of PF and perhaps a slight to my fellow mods and admin. by initiating this drastic new policy without discussing it with them,in your eyes huh?I tried to be diplomatic and ask that you refrain from this and what did you say?So it's not going to be diplomatic anymore.If you make the type of statements that boletus quoted and perhaps maybe "blanket statement" was the wrong word,so we'll go with common sense.Expect to be warned and if you persist,suspended.I'm dead serious about this.I gave you this response because You seemed not to know what I was referring to.Hopefully you will simply refrain.That is the last response from me on that matter.

P3 - I like you, but please, be consistent. I've no issue at all with you banning abuse of whole groups of people - in fact, quite the opposite - I support it thoroughly. But I expect you to be equal towards everyone - no more stuff about Jews, no more stuff about blacks, no more stuff about "pakis", etc.

Is it going to be like this, or is it going to be special treatment for the Polonia?

Trust me P3, if you enforce this, PF will be a hell of a better place.

Well read the statements that he quoted from delph and apply that logic to this.If I'm out of line then admin. will pull me up.I haven't been a mod or a member for a long time,but I have seen these types of remarks binned before and after I became a mod.It's actually really sad that one would need to be asked not to do this instead of using discretion

Haven't you read the rubbish repeatedly posted on here about groups of people? PF is notorious for allowing a free-for-all when it comes to abusing groups of people - it was never prohibited to attack groups - hence many of the arguments on here. The fact that you're now openly against it is fantastic - PF will be a far better place without all the crap about blacks and Jews and homosexuals posted on here. You will put a stop to this stuff, right?

So as far as being a new rule,I seriously doubt it because even you qualify your statements and they can't be deemed as racist.Those statements can be.It's almost like someone is jumping at the excuse to do this because they can't single someone else out

It is new. Abusing ethnic groups of people has gone on for a long time on PF, and other moderators in the past have made it clear that talking about such groups in a broad sense is allowed.

P3 - if you do the right thing here and prohibit blanket statements about any group, you'll make PF a hell of a better place. I really look forward to it :)
4 eigner Activity: 2 / 901
Joined: 15 Aug 2011 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #24

This whole hating Pol-Ams and/or Jews crap doesn't get you anywhere guys. Why don't you all try with respect and understanding instead?
Wroclaw Boy  
25 Sep 2012  #25

P3 - excellent. For the first time on PF, a mod has decided that blanket statements aren't allowed. Does this policy apply to all equally, and if so, what are the consequences?

No it just applies to you and your weird obsession. Stop acting like a little Harrys biatch, you even post like him now.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,772
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #26

Perhaps P3 could clarify as to who is covered by his ban on blanket statements?
Wroclaw Boy  
25 Sep 2012  #27

or perhaps you could just see it for what it is and that is for you and Harry to stop acting like tag team idiots with regard to Polish Americans.
OP p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,210
Joined: 12 Jan 2012 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #28

Delphiandomine,This statement was originally said to you to get you to stop insulting Polonia,let me make this clear;had you been saying the same thing about any other ethnic groups with as much frequency as you have then I'd still be saying the same thing.When you say backward racist American Polonia,dumb polacks etc. etc.This is what I mean by blanket statements in that you blanket that whole group in an insulting way.I'm not a lawyer and I'm not trying to limit freedom of speech.I am trying to reduce vitriolic insulting.Members should be able to come on this site and enjoy themselves without being included in some personal animosity toward said group.Or being included in the insult you intended for someone else,but because you can't direct it at them personally you blanket his/her ethnic group with Racist or derogatory remarks.This will no longer be tolerated and what constitutes this type of statement is at the discretion of the moderators.The consequences of frequent application of these blanket statements is also at the discretion of the mods.Your thoughts PF members..
TheOther Activity: 5 / 3,052
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #29

When you say backward racist American Polonia,dumb polacks etc. etc.This is what I mean by blanket statements in that you blanket that whole group in an insulting way... PF MEMBERS your thoughts please.

I suggest that you spend a little time reading through some of the older threads on PF. Blanket rascist statements about Jews, Germans, Russians, Brits and others abound. And sadly, most of these moronic statements come from a select group of the US Polonia. Up until now this was all tolerated under the allmighty free speech argument. Will this change now?
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,772
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
25 Sep 2012  #30

Delphiandomine,This statement was originally said to you to get you to stop insulting Polonia,let me make this clear;had you been saying the same thing about any other ethnic groups with as much frequency as you have then I'd still be saying the same thing.When you say backward racist American Polonia,dumb polacks etc. etc.This is what I mean by blanket statements in that you blanket that whole group in an insulting way.I'm not a lawyer and I'm not trying to limit freedom of speech.I am trying to reduce vitriolic insulting.Members should be able to come on this site and enjoy themselves without being included in some personal animosity toward said group.Or being included in the insult you intended for someone else,but because you can't direct it at them personally you blanket his/her ethnic group.PF MEMBERS your thoughts please.

My thoughts - you need to clarify what you mean. Are you prohibiting blanket statements by everyone, or not? Can I expect to post without being called a "bitter expat", "limey" and other such abuse?

I suggest that you spend some time reading through some of the older threads on PF. Blanket rascist statements about Jews, Germans, Russians, Brits and others abound. And sadly, most of these moronic statements come from a select group of the US Polonia. Up until now this was all tolerated under the allmighty free speech argument. Will this change now?

Here's a fantastic example - What is wrong with Poznan?. The same poster has repeatedly said bad stuff about Brits and "limeys". It was always allowed under the ruling that as long as it wasn't personally abusive, then it was fine.

I could link to countless others. If P3 is serious about stopping such blanket statements - then PF will be a great place.




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No blanket statements on PF - clarification
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