And also very deceiving.
I know. But that's what we have our brains for - so we wouldn't fall in it's trap. I always try not to fall in it, even if I give an impression that I did.
Oh, I actually speak two more languages besides English. Does that count? :)
Let me guess - German and...? :)
What gets in from the outside through other people is always filtered. You need to form your own opinion - best done by living outside the comfort zone that is your home country.
TheOther, I know all of this. You don't have to even live in another country. People have those "filters" even when they're on a holiday somewhere. I've read comments by Americans who were on vacations in Italy and they claimed Italians are rude, reserved, not smiling, cold even. I was surprised by such assessment. I've been to Italy also only on vacations and Italians for me were completely... normal. The only thing that irritated me was when I was at the post office next to the St Mark's Square in Venice. After some long wait when noone would come out for me I was sold some stamps. I wrote postcards and put the stamps on. The guy was gone again so I went back and waited and was making some noise to make sure he knows someone's there. Then an American couple came in and waited with me. At some point they started talking loudly but it didn't help. We wanted to find out where we can send our postcards. In the end we went out very irritated and we found the postbox by ourselves lol
At the time it didn't hit me that there were no clients when I came in although it's such a touristy place. Later I was explained that it must have been the siesta time and apparently "only dogs and the Germans walk the streets during siesta" in Italy lol
I guess I should count myself lucky that I was sold those stamps in the first place lol Now, if I knew this I wouldn't get upset and think "how rude and unprofessional" that guy was. I would simply visit the post office later, after the siesta was over.
But someone had to explain
this to me, you understand? That this is the way it is in Italy.
And in this way I sometimes also explain things on this forum. I explain that Poles aren't smiling not because they are unfriendly people. That's just the way they are. In Russia people smile even less. That's something even Poles notice and that says something lol I explain that Poles stare at people of different skin colour not because we're all so racist but simply because we aren't accustomed to people of different races and we're curious. With time the shock will probably wear off and people won't be so curious anymore either maybe.
I remember a British user, who lives in Poland, writing on this forum that Polish language sounds
rude. Not just that Poles say rude things but the language itself sounds
rude lol Maybe if someone told you German "sounds" rude it wouldn't irritate you but if you knew that this person has a track record of unfair, ignorant, biased comments it is possible that this comment about German language would get on your nerves even if you know well enough that German isn't exactly the loveliest language on the planet.
Some people are like that - they interpret things through their filter and judge it according to their filter. And they aren't always fair in that judgement or simply they're being subjective.
TheOther, you sound like if the foreigners coming to Poland were clean sheets of paper with nothing written on them. And that they will judge and observe everything in an objective way.
But that's not the case. It's usually grown up people coming to Poland who grew up in different countries with different culture and language and often different world-view, social codes and behaviours, customs, etc. It all affects their judgement.
I've read comments by Russians who feel claustrophobic in Germany, for example. All those laws and rules, people so rigid, you can barely breath, they say. One Russian complained that he can't play his accordion in his flat because of his neighbours. And in Russia he would open his window and people would sing together with him! How he misses that! Those Russians commented that even if you only go to Poland you already breath in a different way, more fully. So some Russians may feel better in Poland than in Germany, but I'm sure there are Russians who feel better in Germany than in Poland or even better than in Russia.
It all depends.
Of course, I know that there are some universal things that foreigners complain about. Poles complain about pretty much the same things.
That's not the problem.
I have a problem with attitudes of some
people here. And some of those people don't have very likeable personalities, some of them get on my nerves because of their snobbery or the way they conduct discussions.
Some people here have their obsessions. For example, some Western posters seem to be obsessed about Catholicism in general and in Poland. They are usually liberal/leftist atheists. There was a time when ranting about Catholicism was "a thing" on PF, in the same way as ranting about Polish women was "a thing" at some point and then Jewish topics and then again Polish women and then again Catholic topics and then again Jewish topics. Now it's Muslims lol Mainly because of Levi, of course. Now, why are some Westerners here so obsessed with Catholicism? Because they are atheists living in a Catholic country and they don't like it. And why Levi is so obsessed with Islam? Because he's a non-Muslim living in a Muslim country. It's understandable to some extent. But don't you just sometimes feel like telling Levi: "Levi, ffs, if you hate it so much over there then why on Earth don't you just move
to a non-Muslim country??" Well, those Westerners usually can't move, because they came to Poland for their wives, apparently, which just adds to the frustration, I imagine. Maybe Levi can't move too, or at least not yet, and so he vents here.
And that's something that hit me fully only lately, I think. People often come here to vent. Now, if locals visit such forum, they can get irritated because all of that venting. That's why I'm starting to think that this forum isn't really a good place for Poles. Maybe we should just leave foreigners alone here so they could vent in peace. Foreign posters living abroad who come to PF usually are seeking advice that often can be given by foreigners living in Poland. So it's a "vent and give info" forum, not that much of a discussion forum, at least not such as I'm accustomed to.
There are still some discussions taking place but... I don't know... Yehudi wrote in the thread "Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?" that this forum isn't the right place for a serious discussion of Israel-Arab relations. But is it the right forum for serious discussions about anything? Fot that you need serious people and not keyboard warriors. Maybe I'm just accustomed to a different level of discussion because of other place on the internet I'm discussing in, I don't know. Here it's like kindergarten or some kind of battle arena in comparison. Here it's not about mutual understanding or learning something from others but about "winning" a discussion, apparently. It seems to me this is the main trend on this forum. For me, personally, it's disappointing.
Trust me, I've been doing this for almost my entire life.
How do you even know your home country then?
Don't know. Are you really ready for something other than a short vacation?
In what sense "ready"? To pack up my bags and start my life from scratch in a foreign country or "ready" as in being able to live in another culture of a foreign country?
Good on ya! I've been trying to get that across for quite some time now
TheOther, most of 38 mln of Poles or 23 mln of Australians can't just move abroad and experience life in other countries. So what are they supposed to do - base their views of their country entirely on views of foreigners that came to their country?
What if some of those foreigners are prejudiced or simply stupid or biased or whatever?
I'll give you an example. There were foreigners on PF who claimed Polish women are so much more beautiful than British women and slimmer, etc. But there were also foreigners who claimed that Polish women aren't more beautiful than British women and they're nothing special and there are more beautiful women then them. There were also those who said that they don't like the way Polish women look like and they have round faces and bad skin which means they have bad genes and they have big noses too.
So, as a Pole who has never lived abroad - whom am I supposed to believe? Am I supposed to take one of those opinions at face value or what? And which one?
but it seems that people don't want to listen or simply refuse to use their brain.
TheOther, how about you? Are you ready to listen to others or "use your brain" or do you think only others should listen to you and "use their brain"?
I know a forum that has more moderators than actual users; if you need a link PM me ;)
Well, that's nice that you do. It's nothing that I haven't seen before though - there was a time when I was discussing on a political forum that had just a few active users, including an administrator and a moderator, I think :) I see that it has been taken over by bots now.
If you're implying that was the case with our forum then not when I was an active admin/mod there :)
Don't worry, Admin, I'm not saying our mods were better than yours are, we even had to kick out one, but you implied that I was banning people for having different views and I had to defend myself.
That's the goal of PF - to allow anyone to have their voice.
but at the same time allow others who don't always share your views to tell their side of the story.
If I consider some comment prejudiced then I can write that I consider this or that comment as prejudiced. I should have the right to do so just like Harry or any other Westerner has a right to call out users on their prejudices and they're doing exactly that. Very often.
I don't have a power to "allow" something or "not allow" something on this forum - I'm not a moderator lol
But I have the right to... COMMENT on other people's comments.
I think we agree on this, right? Or am I missing something here?
Moderators (both the current, past, and the future ;).
What about Lenka? Or gumishu? What happened to him? He isn't even posting anymore...
You may be right; I don't track or am interested in forum personalities.
I do though. I am interested in people and in people's nature.
And, yes, I can see that you don't judging by how much nonsense you wrote about me :)
It was (as far as I can tell) corrupted when DB was rebuilt a few days ago..
Damn it ;/
Could you elaborate what you mean by being "Polish-run"?
I suspected that johnny_reb would like most of the forum staff to be Polish. Judging by his post #69 I see it's not the case.
Based on your posts, I'd guess the leading points would be something like that:
How would you base anything on my posts if you "don't track or are interested in forum personalities"? How many of my 1,211 posts have you read? Not many, I suspect :)
1. If it is Polish or Poland-made, it's the best in the world, no questions asked. Period.
lol Wow, that's one of the greatest bullsh1t anyone ever wrote about me on this forum.
(for example, if there were 10 moderators formally based in Poland but none of them has been on the site for a week to do the moderating job it would still be better than 1 moderator from Germany who actually shows up and does the job well)
Complete bullsh1t again. There's not a single thing in my posts that would suggest that I think in such a way. It was johnny who wanted a "Polish run" forum so get off my back, will you...
2. All discussions that confront the established status quo in Poland should be avoided.
3. All complaints or bad experiences about Poland should be avoided or deleted.
And again - no.
4. Posters who share personal views of moderators or administrators should be treated with utmost respect and, when possible, given moderator privileges.
Not sure what you're talking about here. What "personal views of moderators or administrators"? You mean how they're doing their job or sth? If they aren't written in a rude, offensive way then I don't see why users shouldn't be allowed to give their opinions. Or maybe they aren't allowed?
And have I ever claimed that someone should be given "moderator privileges"? What are you even you talking about?
5. To make the moderating process simple, a list of stereotypes about nationalities and religions should be created and followed (this would be especially useful to those who have been given moderating privileges but really aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer).
Sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever to me.
Admin, you clearly have no idea what are my views, what and why I was writing on this forum for all those 7 years, etc.
I believe that's the gist of the problem.
And not that I dared to write something about your forum?
Look at the point #1 above.. you will never find out about the real life from the Internet or the media; the only things you'll have left are stereotypes or 'research' done by inept people.
I don't live in the internet or on this forum, unlike some people, but in a very real country called Poland. As far as I know TheOther doesn't live in Poland nor do you.
Will you at least agree that if some, let's say, well-travelled foreigner who lived in umpteen countries comes to Poland and writes on this forum that "All Polish women are wh0res" or he will go to Israel and he will write on some Israeli forum that "All Jews are greedy zionists who want to rule the world" or he will go to Germany and he will write on a German forum that "All Germans are Nazis" a local native Pole/Israeli/German who hasn't lived in umpteen countries can write that this well-travelled idiot is prejudiced?
It is not about information; it's all about experience.
Honestly? It's about a bit more, I think. You can live in a foreign country and be a complete prejudiced jerk towards the local culture and people.
Now you have a certain stereotype about Black, Asian, Muslim, Indian people..
I do? Or are you just talking in general?
But have you actually worked or gone to a wedding party or a funeral ceremony and sat with a Black, Asian, Muslim, or Indian people? I did and it has been much more truthful experience than even the most objective media can present.
You mean that the media won't show me their happy faces, I won't see them eating, laughing, looking with love at people close to them or crying after the loss of a family member? Wow, Admin, do you mean to say we are all human beings and we're pretty much the same everywhere? Now that's a shocker... :))
Listen, I don't have to live in another country or work with such and such people to respect them and their cultures.
Btw, you think that a certain poster who is now suspended would somehow cease to be a snob if he had gone to a wedding party at my grandma's village? I don't know, I kind of doubt that, tbh, but who knows lol
It's not even only about people - in fact most stereotypes brought to you by the official knowledge are twisted (do you think you know Mexican or Chinese food just because you visited 100 Mexican or Chinese restaurants in Poland? - then go to a restaurant in Mexico or China to realize how brainwashed you were ;).
That's all great but are you saying that I can't state that someone who writes that "All Polish women are wh0res" is prejudiced only because I haven't lived in another country? What is the point of all what you wrote right there?
I'm not making prejudiced comments about Black, Asian, Muslim, Indian people and I'm not writing anything about Mexican or Chinese food.
I'd just like to be kindly allowed to disagree with other posters and make comments on their comments, sometimes to call out someone on their prejudice, sometimes share some knowledge about Poles/Poland/Polish history or explain some issues that I think may be important for mutual understanding between representatives of different nationalities who have often different mentalities, world-views, experiences, who are coming from countries with different history, etc.
You all sound like I'm not allowed to do that, while other posters are allowed.
So what on Earth is this all about?
If you are alluding to the likes of Harry et al that is palpable nonsense. Nobody is being aggressive Paulina, apart from the racist cliquely posters of Polish blood here
I'm not a fan of both those groups, to be honest.
You might consider, since you are proficient in English yourself, that English is by definition a language of debate, where straight talking has its' place. With such a large corpus of language there is simply no need for the "flowery" discussion that often constitutes a Polish forum of this kind - there is nothing overtly "aggresssive" here - just opinion.
English is a language as any other and you can debate in any language and behaviour of posters can be agressive and it quite often is.
It isn't possible to have a normal discussion with Harry, unless you agree with him all the time. He already implied on this forum that I'm an anti-Semite (which was quite funny, considering that I was "accused" on PF of being Jewish too), he claimed that I'm a racist, anti-Irish and lately he apparently was preparing himself for accusing me of being anti-Muslim. A word in Polish that would fit him well is "napastliwy". And according to the admin of this forum I'm apparently a devout Catholic with "extreme opinions" lol I'm not sure what those extreme opinions would be exactly in my case, though. Maybe the fact that I think women should be allowed to be priests too? I admit - it's pretty extreme for a Catholic lol
And TheOther seems to be turning lately into Harry's clone. Soon he'll probably take delph's place and the madness will continue. No that I care anymore, to be honest. It's probably my swan song on this forum anyway.
(It's good that there's no word limit for posts on this forum... I think I broke my lifetime record lol ;/)