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Fabricator sought for 1:1 scale mockup for MSPO Defence Exhibition.

SigSauer 4 | 397
28 Jan 2019 #1
We are seeking a fabricator to make a 1:1 scale mock up of a piece of military hardware for the 2019 MSPO 26th International Defence Industry Exhibition in Kielce, PL on 3SEP19. We are also seeking a local logistics provider to transport the mock up from its point of production/origin to the exhibition prior to the exhibition date.,16791.htm

As part of our initiative to invest in the local economy, preference will be given to small businesses and sole proprietors. Previous experience in building scale 1:1 models is a plus, but not required. In addition to paying for services rendered, the fabricator will have their business name and cards advertised at our booth, with exposure to 625 exhibitors from 31 countries. The United States of America will be the leading nation at this year's exhibition.

If you have personal friends or family members that have the capability to produce 1:1 scale models for expos, please send them to us. Inquire by private message, and my administrative assistant will handle the RFQ, negotiate payment and terms, and draw up contracts should you be selected.
Bobko 9 | 179
29 Jan 2019 #2
Not able to help, but curious what is being modeled?
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
29 Jan 2019 #3
I apologize Bobko, the fabricator selected will have to sign a legally binding non-disclosure agreement.
Bobko 9 | 179
30 Jan 2019 #4
No problem, I understand. It's quite interesting to me how this works, and what use the manufacturer believes he extracts from it. I've brought my little nephew to some defense expos (last day, open to public), and he naturally would gravitate to the scaled down submarines and jet-fighters. For the 1:1 mock-ups of missile systems he would attempt to of course climb on top :)) Speaking for myself, the model didn't matter at all. The procurement contract usually specifies very exact specs demanded from the hardware, and so it was the little brochures which mattered most (and of course, price). But certainly, the models made for great photos)

I always thought the manufacturer's performed the work in-house. I'm not certain what it's called in English, but in Russian there is a term, «массо-габаритная модель», or "mass-dimensions model" which is used on the carrying platform during trials to evaluate how the hardware would affect aerodynamics, the security of the points of fixation, etc. I figured that something similar is what was brought to shows since presumably it would already be on hand.

I know that in your case you are looking for small local manufacturers (good on you!), but is this something that the companies that design and fabricate booths for trade shows usually would do?

Apologies for the double post. Is the English term for what I mentioned above, simply "Dummy"? Thanks!
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
31 Jan 2019 #5
Were you asking because you know I speak Russian, or were you asking if the terms were equivalent? No, in this case the purpose of building a 1:1 mock up as opposed to bringing the actual equipment is cost savings and eliminating the need to go through a lengthy process of obtaining export licenses from the Dept of State. The model just gives the potential end user an in person feeling of what the equipment does and looks like. We have a smaller sample portion already in country but its purpose is to demonstrate the overall capability.

As far as outsourcing, we always support small businesses on the local economy when we can. As far as the previously mentioned moralizing going on, I obviously have a list of all of our current users, all of which had to be approved by the U.S. government, and none of the current users are non-democratic states or autocracies, and the equipment in question is life saving, not life taking. Rather perturbing when people who have no experience in the industry, and are not subject matter experts make comments. It's of course a free country and people have the right to voice uninformed stupid opinions.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Jan 2019 #6
I apologize Bobko, the fabricator selected will have to sign a legally binding non-disclosure agreement.

Most of which are worthless in Poland and aren't worth the paper they're written on.
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
31 Jan 2019 #7
Thanks for the free legal advice? Does this come from your vast experience as a lawyer, or of owning a foreign subsidiary in Poland which employs a law firm to write NDA's?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Jan 2019 #8
Thanks for the free legal advice?

You might want to take it into account before soliciting responses on PF rather than on more professional classified services.

In particular, you should pay attention to the fact that courts tend to rule against excessive penalties in NDAs, which results in the clause being nullified. If you want to conclude an NDA with a small local business, then it's unlikely that you'll be able to enforce much, if anything through the courts, especially as a foreigner trying to claim against a Polish owned business.

As for my knowledge, let's just say I'd feel pretty secure breaking the NDA if I was a small business owner in Poland, particularly if it was to the benefit of the Republic of Poland against a foreign citizen.
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
31 Jan 2019 #9
Since part of the purpose was to give an opportunity to PF members who might be engaged in the aforementioned trade, and not large firms on more professional classified services, that would defeat the purpose. Second, as mentioned previously, that's why we hire lawyers. Third, again are you speaking from your experience in these matters? Fourth, why are you bothering to troll a classified ads, if you felt inclined to give your unsolicited advice, feel free to do so via PM.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Jan 2019 #10
Second, as mentioned previously, that's why we hire lawyers.

Any competent lawyer will tell you exactly what I've told you. In particular, a good NDA in Poland will avoid explicit penalties to avoid the defence of the penalty not being proportional to the actual loss. However, you also need to pay attention to the length of the NDA, as this can also be challenged.

Third, again are you speaking from your experience in these matters?

Indeed. Take my advice and don't draw up an NDA based on Polish law if you value your hard work.
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
1 Feb 2019 #11
With all due respect Delph, because I am trying to dial down the tensions and nastiness on this board, I will let my legal team make that determination, and not a non-Polish citizen who is a non-Lawyer. That is me putting it nicely, as I don't mean to insult you, but you've come into a thread meant to throw some business into the local economy and more specifically aimed at members of PF or their friends/family, as we are willing to pay a substantial premium, and started speaking like an authority on a matter, that doesn't concern and for which you are not qualified to speak on.
jon357 67 | 17,056
1 Feb 2019 #12
These people might be able to help with the model (or put you in touch with someone local who can). They'd also know about transporting large items to trade fairs/exhibitions.

Most of their people do smaller items/art pieces, but by no means all of them. Some do larger items/industrial.
Bobko 9 | 179
1 Feb 2019 #13
Were you asking because you know I speak Russian, or were you asking if the terms were equivalent?

Thanks for your response!

Didn't know you speak Russian. Yes, asking if the terms were equivalent, but it seems it's not the case.

I kind of arrived at the answer myself (hassle with export licences, pain-in-the-ass logistical arrangements, etc), while waiting on your reply :)

As regards the "moralizing" - am I missing something? Were there messages in the thread that had been deleted? I hope it wasn't anything I said, because I completely agree with you on this point.


Different type of modelling here... but what can you say about this? Why do manufacturers do this, and when is it going to stop?!

Photo is from MSPO 2017:
OP SigSauer 4 | 397
2 Feb 2019 #14
Not sure Bobko. The pic is a bit confusing, shes holding an M4/AR variant with quad picatinny rails and some attachments, standing in front of some sort of tracked vehicle. So is she advertising the firearm or the vehicle? Honestly, this looks like a photo they put into a magazine about military equipment. No idea who the manufacturer is, it's certainly very unprofessional and nothing that would ever even cross our minds. But I'm thinking this is a Balkans manufacturer, or proximal to that area. For US manufacturers we stick strictly to performance characteristics and gentlemen in business suits.

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