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TORONTO OR MONTRÉAL (for a Polish person to live?)


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
29 Mar 2009 /  #1
For a Pole or Polonian, which is better to live in Toronto or Montreal?
Shawn_H  
30 Mar 2009 /  #2
Toronto. Direct flights aplenty.
nunczka 8 | 458  
30 Mar 2009 /  #3
My choice would be Montreal. It is very European.(French) but a good number of Poles. Toronto too is a good place, plenty of Poles. It is a matter of individual choice.. Canada is a great country.
Bzibzioh  
30 Mar 2009 /  #4
Forget Montreal. Screw european charm; you will get tired of absurd language battles (french vs english) soon enough. I’d rather stab myself in the eye.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
30 Mar 2009 /  #5
How do the "language battles" you metnioned affect an ordinary person in Montreal?
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
30 Mar 2009 /  #6
Well im in the Toronto area and its great

Toronto`s more city stores modern etc
Montreal sounds great although ive never been there but both seem great
Shawn_H  
30 Mar 2009 /  #7
How do the "language battles" you metnioned affect an ordinary person in Montreal?

The language police have a habit of fining any store that does not display the french language more prominently than any other language. In Toronto, if an owner wants to post a big sign saying "Polski Sklep" or "Meble" and nothing else, they can, no questions asked.

Must add though, Montreal is more cosmopolitan, with a better sense of fashion / style.
miranda  
30 Mar 2009 /  #8
Must add though, Montreal is more cosmopolitan, with a better sense of fashion / style.

true- well, lets say that Montreal has a fashion sense and TO really doesn't;(.
Shawn_H  
30 Mar 2009 /  #9
lets say that Montreal has a fashion sense and TO really doesn't

But I am an old married fart, so it isn't so important, although I do like to look reasonable.
lukimp80 1 | 74  
30 Mar 2009 /  #10
I have visited Canada on many occasions.. From the Maritime provinces to Vancouver Island. When God created Canada, he created the eight wonder of the world.
polishcanuck 7 | 462  
30 Mar 2009 /  #11
Montreal is much more interesting than Toronto IMO.

In Toronto, if an owner wants to post a big sign saying "Polski Sklep" or "Meble" and nothing else, they can, no questions asked.

Isn't there a law that requires business signs to be accompanied by their english translations?
Shawn_H  
30 Mar 2009 /  #12
Isn't there a law that requires business signs to be accompanied by their english translations?

Only in Quebec, to my knowledge.
miranda  
30 Mar 2009 /  #13
But I am an old married fart, so it isn't so important, although I do like to look reasonable.

I am old and fashion oriented LOL:) P

On a serious note, I think that Toronto (GTA) would probably be better for a Pole, unless he/she spoke French. I think one needs to speak French to appreciate and fit into Montreal.

In Toronto one can get away with English, or some English. It all depends on the person;s needs.
marz - | 13  
28 Apr 2009 /  #14
I have lived in Toronto the last 25 years and there is a HUGE Polish community in the GTA with Polish restaurants, churches, stores, schools, night clubs, and so on and so forth. I like Montreal, but only to visit over a long weekend for fun.
Guest  
6 May 2009 /  #15
Montreal very difficult for anyone who is not integrated into the francophone community. It is difficult to find work, as foreign credentials are ignored and most companies prefer to hire native french speakers. I grew up in Toronto but now live in Montreal because my husband is francophone. I prefer Toronto.

Also there are very few Poles here. Most people that I know (who are Polish or of various backgrounds) in Montreal have left for greener pastures. Their careers floundered here. No one would hire them even though they spoke French. Also, Montreal is economically weak compared to Toronto.

The Polish community in the Montreal area has 20,000 people (mostly old people in the suburbs) and the Polish community in the Toronto area is about 200,000 people and very dynamic. In Montreal the Polish Community is invisible.

Montreal is beautiful and nice to visit, however it has many problems, largely economic and language/cultural issues. Montreal is NOT as cosmopolitan as it claims to be. Many Quebecers can't be bothered with you if you don't speak French. Partying together on St Laurent is okay but working and living together is a totally different matter. So yes, its a party town, but one can only party so much. One must live and work. Don't judge Montreal by fun weekend visits.

In my experience, Torontonians are very comfortable with people of different backgrounds, it is one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world. In Toronto, one lives with, goes to school with, and works with people from all over the world and it has been like that for a very long time. Its certainly not a perfect city (its very expensive and polluted), but the people there live together quite well.

Quebecers can sometimes feel very threatened by foreigners due to (once again) language and cultural issues. The city is really is split in two between French and English. Half of the people in Quebec want to separate from Canada and that will never go away.

Sorry if my post seems very harsh, however, I prefer that if someone even considers moving here, that they know that its not easy. Like most of my friends, I will leave Montreal. Its not worth the hassle.
anubis - | 35  
6 May 2009 /  #16
How do the "language battles" you metnioned affect an ordinary person in Montreal?

For one thing, immigrants have to learn 2 new languages, English & French. Historically the 2 language groups were called "the 2 solitudes" because they never integrated. There was the French part of town and the English part of town, with language and religion keeping them apart. Then the separatist movement erupted. One of the its' gains was making French the official language of Quebec, but for practical purposes, English is a must, since there are so many Anglophones living there. Both McGill & Concordia universities use English as primary language, a lot of international companies do too. Staff in hotels & restaurants has to know both languages. Most younger Montrealers are bilingual & use both languages intermittently.

I don't live in Montreal, but spend a lot of time there, and after few days I'm not even conscious of which language I'm speaking at the moment.

So to answer the question asked in this thread - Toronto would be a better option. It's a huge city, with a sizeable Polish population. It's also the most racially/ethnically diverse city in North America.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
6 May 2009 /  #17
For a Pole or Polonian, which is better to live in Toronto or Montreal?

Certainly nothing in Quebec (such as Montreal).
In Quebec, immigrants (whose native language is not English) are not free to choose schools for themselves or for their kids By law, they all have to attend French language schools.

As for Toronto, I dunno. If you insist on living in a large city then between Toronto and Montreal I'd pick New Your City :)
Wroclaw Boy  
6 May 2009 /  #18
For a Pole or Polonian, which is better to live in Toronto or Montreal?

all depends if they speak English or French i suppose.
Sebas 1 | 38  
14 May 2009 /  #19
I would say Montreal.
Actually I'm a Canadian from Montreal and yes Montreal is french but you can get serve in English everywhere.
Montreal has a lot of advantages over Toronto. Lots of poles, great night life, loads of shops and loads I mean loads of festivals.
I'm going back to Montreal on holiday this summer.

If you want more info just ask.

And yes I'm french Canadian...

hope to see you there lol
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
23 May 2009 /  #20
Are you a Joual?
BaBa  
30 May 2009 /  #21
I’m living in Montreal since 1995 and really don't understand this language stuff. If you move to another country, you need to learn local language.

Want to live in Toronto -> you have to speak English
Want to live in Montreal -> you have to speak French\English
Want to live in Russia -> you have to speak Russian
It is not very complicated.

Why the size of polish community in the town is important? Are you coming to Canada to live with Poles? - if yes, better stay in Poland.There 40 milions Poles in Poland :)

If you compare the quality of life, Montreal is much better place then Toronto.

In Toronto you need two jobs (or a LOT of overtimes) to get decent quality of life. Also the price of living (food, houses etc..) is double then in Montreal. No nightlife in Toronto - at 10 p.m. all is closed LOL Traffic, pollution - this is Toronto. Try to buy cappuccino with croissant - you need to drive 50 km... Otherwise you have to buy this abominable coffee from Tim Horton with muffin (which is not really eatable)

In Toronto all you do is work and sleep. You have no life.
And you know how they work in Toronto – like in States – they press you like a citron, and when you can’t do more, they throw you out. It is inhuman.

Montreal in North America is associated with Quality - the quality you find only in Europe. And this Quality costs reasonable price. The quality of food in thousands restaurants from thousand countries around the world and small coffee shops goes without saying. Here you have a real choice, not only hotdogs like in Toronto LOL

In very close distance from Montreal you have many ski stations, with great choice of winter sports. Want to go to NY – only 7 hours drive, Boston? – 5 hours drive. Check the distances from Toronto LOL

Of course, in short term, you may have impression that starting you life in Toronto is easier, but in reality, all cultural events in North America happens in Montreal. Do you want your children grow in nice cultural environment where ppl appreciate art of living, relax, and take time to eat food of good quality? - Come to Montreal!
Bzibzioh  
31 May 2009 /  #22
Of course, in short term, you may have impression that starting you life in Toronto is easier, but in reality, all cultural events in North America happens in Montreal.

Exaggerating much?

Ever heard of Toronto Film Festival?
poischiche  
7 Jul 2009 /  #23
all cultural events in North America happens in Montreal.

Not true. I live in Montreal. I lived in Toronto and in NYC.

Many Montrealers (and montreal artists/designers) leave for greener economic pastures. Artists move here because of the government grants but find that no one will buy their art or design, unlike in cities with vibrant economies and connected cultural infrastructure. Here there is little international aptitude. Its unfortunate because there are many talented people here. So if you move here, flaunt your connections elsewhere in business. The immigrant unemployment rate here is 18+ percent.

Believe it or not Toronto has a much larger cultural scene (especially for various design professions, animation etc.) than Montreal. Its a bigger city with a LOT more money. Its just that Toronto doesn't rely on government support as much as Montreal. Culture plus a decent economy = opportunity. Montreal = economic black hole. Toronto is much more worldly as it is much more multicultural and entreprenurial.

Put it this way, in terms of economy, out of 50 states and 10 provinces Quebec ranks 54th.

23 percent of Montreal lives below the poverty line. 40 percent of quebecers do not contribute any taxes.

Thats really bad!

That said, I love the Quebecois. They are very good people. They seem rude at first, but once they get to know you, they are very nice and extremely kind. They smile and laugh a lot, unlike in Poland!

But you have to speak french here. If not you are screwed. So its a much more complicated place. Nice people... few opportunities.

I've only met one other Polish person in 10 years of living here, they left.

You decide
Czarek - | 5  
16 Jul 2009 /  #24
To Guest, I digress with your facts. I've lived in both Toronto and Montreal. IMO Toronto is a Muslim/Asian ****hole.

First of all, Toronto only has about 80,000 Polish, where as Montreal has about 60,000. It's also much easier to meet Polish people in Montreal as people walk everywhere and it's a very concentrated downtown. There is much more going on culturally in Montreal than in Toronto. In Toronto everybody lives in the suburbs, commutes downtown, works, goes home, and sits at home. In Montreal there's people on the streets until 3/4/5AM, Toronto is dead.

Also regarding the economy, yes, the Quebec economy is a bit weaker than Ontario. However, things are much cheaper in Quebec. Take for example car insurance. In Ontario the average car insurance policy costs approximately $2100/year I believe, due to the price fixing by the monopolistic car insurance companies. I was paying $2,500/year in Ontario, and I just moved to Quebec-- I'm paying $350/year now. Furthermore, food is much better quality (real european food, fresh cheese, bread, etc) and much cheaper (no tax on food), where as in Ontario it is all processed **** and expensive. All in all it works out to about the same. And I have some friends here in Montreal who work in Aeronautic engineering who make $80-$90k/year, while same friends in Toronto make $60-70k . . . . so salary is relative. Minimum wage is $9/hour in Montreal while it's now $9.50/hour in Ontario now. Keep in mind in Ontario you will have to drive hundreds of KM a week just to survive, in Montreal I drive my car perhaps 1-2x a week for short distance (walk, metro, cab, etc-- faster).

Yes you do need to speak French if you want to do a job that requires French (government, service industry), but if you do engineering/technical work English will do. The vast majority of people in Montreal downtown speak English, but you go into the suburbs few people speak English.

As for being more multicultural give me a break. Montreal has lots of Europeans and people from all over the French colonies. Toronto has virtually no Europeans from Europe (sorry but someone coming from Europe doesn't come to Toronto). It is all Asians (China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc), Muslims/Brown (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc) and Blacks (Somalia, Zimbabwe, Jamaica, etc). Very few Europeans immigrate now as Canadian policy prefers minorities (this is why Canada is importing 200,000 Muslims/year).

And whatever you do don't fly into Vancouver, RCMP will kill you and laugh.

So my advice between Toronto and Montreal would be Montreal, but my overall advice is to stay in Europe.

Ciao.

Also:
BaBa is 100% correct

There is so much to do in Montreal, it is like little Europe

Plus another thing I will tell you, I am actually relaxed in Montreal, I am not angry, I am not in a hurry, I can sit down, have a coffee and a cigarette and just relax and enjoy the scenery / people. This is coming from someone who has lived in Warsaw, Koln, London, Seattle, Manhattan, Toronto, Montreal, etc... and I've travelled to 10x more places (and I am just 26). Montreal is one of the most relaxing places. Remember work week is 35 hours here, not 40+ like in Toronto (or 100 like in Manhattan LOL), so yes economy is a bit weaker but you have better quality of life. Yes I made much much more money in Manhattan, but I just worked, smoked, drank, nothing else, no time... 9am -> 11pm 7 days a week. So it depends on what balance you want.

I think there is too many people here who have lived in Toronto their entire life (Polish born here) and they are brainwashed.
michaltk  
16 Jul 2009 /  #25
IMO Toronto is a Muslim/Asian ****hole.

It all depends which part of the city you're living in. As for the Polish population… most of them came here 20yrs ago or so… they have no idea about Poland now days… just take a look at a Polish town here, it's ridicules… more of a joke than anything else... it looks like some sort of village from the 80's.

Toronto and Montreal are two totally different places… and yes Toronto is more of a mix, more like an American city while Montreal is much more European.

Anyways Toronto isn't as bad as Czarek described... but yeah you need quite a bit of an income to live in DT area… same as in any big city. Work week isn't 40+ it's 37.5. Driving hundreds of km a week to survive… that’s something new lol…

And whatever you do don't fly into Vancouver, RCMP will kill you and laugh.

As long as you do speak some English or French you should be ok :P
Jihozapad  
16 Jul 2009 /  #26
Very few Europeans immigrate now as Canadian policy prefers minorities (this is why Canada is importing 200,000 Muslims/year).

Oh well... that's my plans f***ed then. Probably for the best, though. :D
Edzia  
21 Jul 2009 /  #27
Hi I have a question regarding possible moving...If I would move there with a young child is there a help and what kind for us till I would find a job?? Or do I find a job and then move?/ which is a little bit harder leving so many hours away..in London, On..

I just visited Montreal, Ottwa & Quebec and I felt good and peaceful in Montreal, in Quebec people seemed friendly, but most of them didn't even answered in English as I said thank you!!

I have been living in London, On for 19 yrs and never liked it from the beginning..I lived in Windsor for few months, but that's the dirtiest city I heard in North America..

I was feeling good in Quebec and when I got to London I started suffering from allergies etc again:(
I am a single mother and a little scared to move as it would be expensive and wouldn't want to regreat the move!!
If I would be alone with no child I would be moving today!!lol
So when you move there do you learn the French like her ESL ? Do they have bilingual elementry school or all in french??
I like and prefer French over English and I forgot the French I learned in Poland & here in high school..:(
We got here OHIP what is there in Montreal for health coverage?? Maybe sounds silly, but really I don't know much...
I read that it's better and safer to live in west island/west end is that true???
Is is the tax 12.75 % in Quebec? I got the receipt and it was a lot, but that's what the girl told me in the store...

anything else you could add or provide, pls!!
Thanks:)
Sebas 1 | 38  
22 Jul 2009 /  #28
Yeah you could say I'm a joual even if i don't use it...Tabarnak d osti d'calisse here you go! lol
Bzibzioh  
22 Jul 2009 /  #29
Do they have bilingual elementry school or all in french??

We do, but your child will be send to a French school whether you like it or not. Unless you can afford private school or prove that she received all her schooling so far in English (meaning a LOT of bureaucratic nightmare).

We got here OHIP what is there in Montreal for health coverage??

You won't be covered by a public health care system for the first 3 months. If something happens during that period you can send claim back to Ontario.

I read that it's better and safer to live in west island/west end is that true???

West Island is basically English/posh and East French/poor. More crime is in areas where immigrants live (north).

Is is the tax 12.75 % in Quebec?

sale tax is 6% federal plus 7.5% provincial. It is calculated: Price+6%=subtotal +7.5%=amount you are paying (so you are paying tax on tax)

Be careful WHEN you move to Quebec. End of the year is definitely the worst time: you will be taxed much higher than in Ontario. You will have to pay to a Revenue Quebec about ten thousand dollars more a year than you would in Ontario. Beginning of the year is the best option.
edzia  
22 Jul 2009 /  #30
who you replying to and what does it mean?? Sebas

Thanks Bziobzioh !!:)

So what do you mean if my child received all his schooling in English??
He finished Grade 3..
So what area you live and do you like it?? which is the better/safer ??
I read about that helath coverage...
so we got here Ontario Works whats there for newcomers for an assistance?? any kind of assitance or something for single mothers to get on their feet???

we got 13% of tax after the amount.. you got much more..:(

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