Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / USA, Canada  % width 149

Do you think Americans are idiots.


Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #91
Well Timotei, by that logic, Americans should get out of Afghanistan and shouldn't have occupied Iraq. Why should they have a strategic advantage by being there?

I just don't like double standards.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #92
I will side with PP on this issue. Maybe in 20 years when this radicalization peters out we should try again, but for now, you only invite trouble.

I will sign on to this as well. There is too much a cultural divide between Islamic views and secular views in the US. We just caught another "seemingly gentle" muslim kid making bombs and visions of jihaad dancing in his head. Giving a choice between multiculturalism and being safe and breathing.. I will choose breathing. Let Europe have their minarets and frightened cartoonists.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #93
Well Timotei, by that logic, Americans should get out of Afghanistan and shouldn't have occupied Iraq. Why should they have a strategic advantage by being there?

I disagree with the US in Iraq. Being in Afghanistan is folly because we all know the Russians tried and failed...why do we think it's going to matter. The Afghanis act like the Taliban are in charge even when they aren't...they clearly do not wish to be liberated. It's just a joke. Let them do whatever they want in Afghanistan and lock them out of the US.

Our screwy policies have failed. It's not going to change their mindset and we cannot "buy" the Taliban. Now, they want to send in more troops and are crying, if the politicians do not abide by the demand, Al Qaeda will strike with a vengeance. All this time and Al Qaeda is, apparently, just as strong as ever. Why not just admit our goal is to own Afghanistan because that is what it will take to stop Al Qaeda and even that might not work, they will just go elsewhere.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #94
Well, you guys live there so I respect that. I'm moving in that direction too but cannot take that position outright as it is discrimination. PP, applying your own logic against you, why don't you just deal with those who commit the crimes, rather than targetting all of them? (visa logic of yours). You are preaching guilty before innocent and guilty by association. Are you proud of that? Is that what America is about?

PS I see your point but muslims would ask you to be consistent. If you can enter their countries, why can't they enter yours?

Whether we agree or disagree about Iraq is neither here nor there in the eyes of muslims. It's a done deal and FACT that there was an invasion. We must take it from there and see it from their position.

Imagine yourself as an immigration official sitting in front of a muslim, PP. He asks you why he is being refused entry. What do you tell him?
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
31 Oct 2009 /  #95
Seanus
We dont intend to stay and raise families there.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #96
If you can enter their countries, why can't they enter yours?

A LOT of us want out of their countries. Obama is making a mistake by staying in Afghanistan.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #97
. PP, applying your own logic against you, why don't you just deal with those who commit the crimes, rather than targetting all of them?

Because the Muslims have proven they are dangerous and cannot be trusted. Even a normal muslim turns into a glassy eyed fanatic when exposed to the right propaganda. No one else does this. They are too crazy and too religious, all of them. Their minds are weak and too easily swayed by insane muftis the world over.
ShawnH 8 | 1,508  
31 Oct 2009 /  #98
What do you tell him?

National Security Concerns.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
31 Oct 2009 /  #99
If you can enter their countries, why can't they enter yours?

They can. Look, they have been making war on us (and you BTW)for 30 years now. Its time to call it what it is and stop being a p*ssy. IMO.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #100
Timotei, raising families isn't the issue. Occupying is.

Scrappy, glad to hear it. I have a similar take on Obama as you do. He is idiotic for waging this protracted war. What is the rationale for all this in your eyes? MANY Americans have lost their lives lately.

PP, there are no Christian fanatics who pounce on abortion seekers or gay rights activists? I take your point that radical muslims are more vicious and that we shouldn't extend our hand out to them. Still, it's a question of balance and taking a measured approach with normal muslims.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #101
You are preaching guilty before innocent and guilty by association. Are you proud of that? Is that what America is about?

We are preaching common sense. You the European blabber on about personal freedoms.. where was Theo Van Gogh's freedom?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #102
It's true, our policies in the mid east have created a huge mess there. And it's not just the US...Britain has been screwing around in the region waaaay longer than America has. No denying it.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #103
It's true, our policies in the mid east have created a huge mess there

Big business has made a mess over there so has the stupid media for stirring things up all the time. In about 10 years electric cars will be affordable for the masses. The middle east will be as relevant as modern Mongolia.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #104
I'm just sayin, Scrappy, think long and hard before you go down that road. Aaron Russo was right in his film, 'From Freedom to Fascism'.

Shawny, Homeland Security? Ok, what if he then says that he poses no threat to the country and that he is there to study?

Blabber on? It is America that is synonymous with flaunting its much vaunted freedoms, Scrappy, not Europe, although we have many excellent documents such as the ECHR.

Timotei, I agree on the war point. To pull out would be an admission of defeat but I ask you, 'what is the mission statement there?'. They'd need to coin it beautifully so that it wouldn't give the appearance that they were bailing out with their tails between their legs. How can that be done?

Geez, PP, stop making out like I'm a defender of Britain just because I'm Scottish. I also hate what the Balfour Declaration represents and am well aware of how we screwed up over there. Tony Benn wouldn't have allowed that, Blair very much did.
ShawnH 8 | 1,508  
31 Oct 2009 /  #105
The middle east will be as relevant as modern Mongolia.

And at that point, should the west, including us Boring Canadians ;-), be very nervous?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #106
The middle east will be as relevant as modern Mongolia.

That's not true. The Arabs have been preparing and are building billion dollar mega cities that will generate wealth far longer than any unclean energy source.
ShawnH 8 | 1,508  
31 Oct 2009 /  #107
and that he is there to study

Studying Aviation? Chemical Engineering, Agricultural Fertilization Techniques? Then no. Animal Husbandry? maybe.

The danger is that those who want to disappear can do so easily. How do you separate the wheat from the chaff? Until a better / foolproof method is devised, National Security.

The Arabs have been preparing and are building billion dollar mega cities that will generate wealth far longer than any unclean energy source

Megacities that will go empty. There is only so much money to be made in the movement of money. Other products and services must be made / delivered in order to create real wealth...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #108
Megacities that will go empty. There is only so much money to be made in the movement of money. Other products and services must be made / delivered in order to create real wealth...

They won't go empty because Arabs have friends in other areas besides the west, like Eastern Asia, and they have far more people than the US and Europe. We are smaller in numbers and much more isolated than Arabs and Asians are. We cannot account for the billion person deficit in our population.

If we decide not to have anything to do with them, they will turn to their friends in Russia, China and Eastern Asia to help build their economy. It would be to our advantage to work with them and exercise diplomacy in the future.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #109
PP is right so long as there is access to crude oil. 2020 more or less? Nah, 2035 was the conservative forecast but I think that, failing any Hussein-type mass dumping, 2050 is a more realistic date.

I hate the ponces dealing with Iran too. I thought breakthroughs were supposed to be getting better through time. When Iran offered to release some uranium to France and Russia, it was treated like a miracle when it must have seemed obvious to anyone with a bit of savvy.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
31 Oct 2009 /  #110
There are valid points all around.

I saw refugees from Lebanon, Egypt, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Malaysia, etc. All come here over the last 30+ years. They have all been generally Christian or Buddhist who have escaped real, life threatening, persecution from the brand of Islam that is being cultivated today(Wahabi). At this time, it would be comparable to forcing the UK to accept Nazi immagrants during the war. You have the right to choose who and when immigration takes place into your country as an indigenous people I say.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #111
And at that point, should the west, including us Boring Canadians ;-),

Your oil sand burns the dirtiest. Perhaps the Innuit will teach you to fish so you'll eat for a lifetime. Maybe you can join the EU.. in spirit you're there already.

The Arabs have been preparing and are building billion dollar mega cities that will generate wealth far longer than any unclean energy source.

What is the commodity those billion dollar cities are founded upon.? Do you think they will be investing in wind farms, solar.. no, that whole region is a one trick pony. The Chinese will drive up the price of oil causing us to go green. Cleaner air and no dependency on weird sunbaked theocracies. Plus we have our own reserves for anything military.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #112
We are really outnumbered, Scrappleton and a tiny little island to them. Look at all the Asians...there are so many. This is where we fail...in population numbers. Until we become just as crowded and populated as Asia, we will keep losing face. We won't have as huge a piece of the market shair. China has so many people, they can keep their market going by fortifying their people with $$$ and keeping them buying, making a demand for their own supply. We don't have enough people for that. We can't sell cars at the rate Asians can because there aren't as many Americans. If every American tried to have ten kids, it would help even up the numbers.

All weapons do is destroy cities. We cannot rely on destruction and weaponry forever. It's better just to work with these people and have a symbiotic relationship. Let's hope we go in that direction.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
31 Oct 2009 /  #113
Boring Canadians

There's nothing boring about large-scale whisky consumption with a visiting distant Canadian relative. Some things can take years of recovery and rehabilitation to overcome. I'm sure some Canadians are boring, just as some Americans are stupid. I for one am neither stupid enough nor boring enough to go and count just how many fit into such categories.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #114
Good point, Timotei. Organised criminals are pretty smart and can easily pull the wool over the eyes of unalert and unsuspecting immigration staff. They can make out like they are Christians and questioning them would be to doubt their sincerity. You have to do that, though, but what if you couldn't disprove their claim?

I'm not gonna revert back to 9/11 but, in my view, Americans made an enemy of the Islamic world by framing them. Yes, jihad is evil but there are better ways to expose that.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
31 Oct 2009 /  #115
PlasticPole
You need to get knocked-up right away do you? HAHAHA! (sorry, couldn't resist.)
sledz 23 | 2,250  
31 Oct 2009 /  #116
Your avg Mexican only makes $60 bucks a week they get a job at McDonald's they can more than triple that easily.

Then rent a house and move 5 families into it, they save all thier money and when there done trashing the place then they move back to Mexico.

Besides, America cannot be treated as a cash cow anymore. The funds aren't there to be usurped.

The days of coming here off the boat and landing a job are long gone.
Its who you know, if you want a good job.

Enforce the laws that are already there instead of denying people who have done nothing their visas.

Why dont they inforce the laws that are already in place, thats been my question for a long time?
I wish they would start with the 12 million Mexicans, Its not the Poles that are the problem in the US

The obvious threats are from muslims so I am all for discriminating against them,

We should not allow any Muslums in here at all!
ShawnH 8 | 1,508  
31 Oct 2009 /  #117
Your oil sand burns the dirtiest.

I won't deny that it is not as clean as it needs to be, but work is progressing to improve it:

What Pereira Almao proposes one day could end up looking something like this: steam is injected to a reservoir to heat the bitumen to 200 C to initially get it flowing. A nano-catalyst, which might resemble sifted pastry flour, is mixed with oil and injected into the well, where it percolates through the warming bitumen. Automated chemical analysis at the wellhead reveals what is happening underground and allows a geologist 800 kilometres away in a Calgary office tower to monitor the well.

albertaventure.com/environment/dawn-of-the-clean-oilsands

And:

The extraction process used in the Long Lake project is Steam Assist, Gravity Drainage (SAGD). This process relies upon paired series of horizontal wells with one well a few meters above the other. Steam is injected through the upper wells, heating the bitumen deposits and causing them to drop into the lower wells whence they are brought back to the surface for processing. Recent improvements in drilling technology allow a single drill site to send radials out in many directions, allowing large areas of coverage with minimal disturbance of the surface ecology.

greenprophet.com/2009/10/09/12558/tar-sands-opti-ormat-wittig

Like any good capitalist, you should embrace new ideas, and try to profit from them.

There's nothing boring about large-scale whisky consumption with a visiting distant Canadian relative

Sorry Os, somewhere in a distant thread, Scrappy postulated and documented the fact that Canadians are boring (like watching paint dry) Euro-Wanna-Be-Trash.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
31 Oct 2009 /  #118
PlasticPole
You need to get knocked-up right away do you? HAHAHA! (sorry, couldn't resist.)

If Americans want to remain competitive, they better get busy creating as many people as the Asians.

We should not allow any Muslums in here at all!

I agree. We should cultivate friendships with Asians and skip over the muslims.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Oct 2009 /  #119
Sledz, right on! Unless you are somehow old school in that you are set for life, times are tough and guarantees few in some sectors.

Different question. It goes without saying that Obama is less sympathetic and generous to big business than McCain would have been. Without going into the merits of that, to what extent has Obama embraced socialism in curbing/regulating the activities of the main corporations? I followed the pre-election debates fairly closely but what's the word on the streets now? I'm not gonna look at some feckin biased Obameter which monitors his progress. I'd rather hear it from you guys.
scrappleton - | 830  
31 Oct 2009 /  #120
should cultivate friendships with Asians

We've already done that to our detriment by giving them the bulk of our jobs.. how do you think that is playing out right now? No if you're the US you become more insular and start producing and buying your own goods before we ourselves are Mexico where 95% of the wealth is controlled by 5% of the population. This is what happens when you let Wall Street dictate every aspect of life. It was ruinous in 29' it's proving ruinous in now.

Archives - 2005-2009 / USA, Canada / Do you think Americans are idiots.Archived