Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / USA, Canada  % width 22

Popular US Newspaper offends Poles.


George8600 10 | 636  
24 Jun 2009 /  #1
This was the second time I have seen this article posted in the New York Times (which I subscribe to daily). Apparently a holocaust subjecting brought it up again and got it posted. I have looked up many of the facts and they seem flawed (but not all). As a pole, isn't anyone else offended by this? Poland has done so much for the Jewish population since medieval times, and we get this?

Poland was the first country to oppose Hitler's demands and the first to stand against his aggression. Poland never had a Quisling. No Polish regiment fought on behalf of the Third Reich. Betrayed by the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, Poles fought alongside the anti-Nazi forces from the first day until the last. And inside Poland armed resistance to the German occupation was widespread.

nytimes.com/2001/03/17/arts/poles-and-the-jews-how-deep-the -guilt.html
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
24 Jun 2009 /  #2
By ADAM MICHNIK

I stopped reading here...
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
24 Jun 2009 /  #3
hahaha, its a pole offending poles :):):)
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384  
24 Jun 2009 /  #4
I stopped reading here...

I stopped at the date: March 17th 2001
bunia 1 | 134  
24 Jun 2009 /  #5
so i wont bother to open :)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
24 Jun 2009 /  #6
its a pole

Well... It depends on one's definition of a Pole...
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
24 Jun 2009 /  #7
hahahaha, not only is a Pole offending Poles, we now find out its about 8 years ago, hahahahahahahahaha, thanks for the laugh anyway
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
24 Jun 2009 /  #8
hahaha, its a pole offending poles :):):)

Michnik is a Jew not a Pole, a Polish citizen yes, a Pole? No.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
24 Jun 2009 /  #9
ok so your nationality is defined these days by your religion, that is just great, one of the worst elements in the whole world now defines your nationality, how sad :(. Forget religion and remember the nationality!!!!

RELIGION WILL END THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
24 Jun 2009 /  #10
ok so your nationality is defined these days by your religion

In case of Jews yes, to follow rules of Judaism is to be a Jew, to be a Jew is not to be a Pole, he can be a citizen of Poland with all priveliges and duties that entails but thats it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
24 Jun 2009 /  #11
Right on, Torny. At some level, I can accept that religion can divide people. However, I believe that we should really try to understand the faiths of others before we take a position against it. People ask me, what religious denomination do you follow? I am broadly Christian but see the merits in the religion of others when described to me. What we must remember is, there is no definitive proof of the existence of God. So we believe in different Gods, fine, let's leave it at that. Therefore, there is scope for other belief for me. I don't discard what they say and see some logic in Buddhism, for example.

I can not accept that religion will make people guilty by association when there is a general lack of understanding. Also, believe some eminent scholars and authorities when they tell you that gaps should be bridged as the disparities are often not that great. Look for that substantive overlap cuz it's there.
thebear45 1 | 67  
24 Jun 2009 /  #13
Jews starting another uproar in poland? wht else is new man.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601  
24 Jun 2009 /  #14
The NewYork Times is going out of business. This article is just one of many other types of falsehoods published by this extreme left rag. Only an Obama 'bailout' can save this paper by 2011.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
24 Jun 2009 /  #15
I stopped at the date: March 17th 2001

me too

why bring up old topics.. the article is older then the forum.

RELIGION WILL END THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL

Ahem... Man will end the world.. Man is behind the religion.
go strait to the source.

theres a really stupid one right now causing stir who lives in N.Korea.
another in Iran calling out Britian. we have bigger issues then religion.
Harry  
24 Jun 2009 /  #16
Michnik isn't a Jew: he's a Pole. Only pathetic bigots like Sokrates and greg think he isn't a Pole.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
24 Jun 2009 /  #17
By his own admission Michnik is a Polish Jewish atheist. He once said, a little tongue in cheek: "Żydokomuna to ja!" And he was right on the mark. His father Ozjasz Szechter was a member of the pre-war Stalin-cotrolled subversive Communist Party of Poland. After the war, his mother Helena Michnik tried to sovietise Polish schoolchildren with her Marxist-style history textbooks. And Michnik's brother Adam, a Stalin-era desk-top murderer (with the blood of Polish patriots on his hands), to this day is a fugitive from justice in Sweden. People like Michnik and Kuroń opposed the Polish communist regime only because someone like Trotsky would have been more to their liking.
Ironside 51 | 11,499  
25 Jun 2009 /  #18
Michnik isn't a Jew: he's a Pole. Only pathetic bigots like Sokrates and greg think he isn't a Pole.

he is communist bastard , no wonder you like him Harry.
OP George8600 10 | 636  
25 Jun 2009 /  #19
I read his biography online, apparently he is Ukrainian born of Jewish origins (his father is Ukrainian and mother Polish) , but considers himself a Polish Jew since he has lived there most of his life. Polonius, he isn't an atheist, Judaism highly opposed those who disbelieved in God. A Jew who loses his faith in God is no longer a Jew when he/she becomes and atheist. The Torah itself says this, he claims to be proudly a Jew and practices the religion. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if he had tons of atheists in his family with the amount of communist involvement they had.

From wikipedia--

Adam Michnik was born to Ozjasz (Uzziah) Szechter, the first secretary of the Communist Party of Western Ukraine and his wife Helena (née Michnik), a children books writer and communist. (Michnik's parents happened to be of Jewish and non-Jewish descent, respectively. Michnik describes himself as a Pole of Jewish origins.[1][2]) His brother, Stefan Michnik, was a stalinist judge in the 1950s, during the period of Stalinism and currently resides in Sweden; he is accused of having sentenced to death alleged spies, such as major Zefiryn Machalla whom was a major of the Polish Army and participant of the Polish September Campaign. In the interbellum period, his talent was highly praised by the Polish Army Headquarters, for his outstanding bravery, Machalla was nominated for the Virtuti Militari cross.

He has also convicted many other Polish nobles. What Polonius said was right and with a further extent.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601  
25 Jun 2009 /  #20
Michnik isn't a Jew: he's a Pole. Only pathetic bigots like Sokrates and greg think he isn't a Pole.

Is that why in the same article Michnik says; "By coincidence I am a Pole with Jewish roots." ....and later, "I know that if I had been there in Jedwabne, I would have been killed as a Jew.". For the third time he admits being a Jew when he writes; "I am also a Jew who feels a deep brotherhood with those who were murdered as Jews."

Perhaps Harry, you should tell Michnik that he isn't Jewish; after all, someone from the British Islands like yourself knows better.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,532  
25 Jun 2009 /  #21
Not being excited at all with who is Jewish and who is not (same with who is Scottish or who is American), I am eager to remind that being Jewish may be defined in either nationality or religion terms. In the former case we use the big letter in Polish (On jest Żydem), in the latter we use the small letter (On jest żydem). Also, according to the Jewish religion, someone is Jewish when his mother is/was Jewish; in this respect Adam Michnik is not Jewish. The decisive factor is whom the person judges himself; I think it's obvious to accept Adam Michnik as a Pole of Jewish origin (I cannot imagine people in America insisting that someone who thinks himself an American of Jewish origin is not an American, but Jewish only).

Confusing this with someone's or their parents political activities is just silly and boring. There exists lots of examples of Poles of Polish (and only Polish) having been communist murderers, just as examples of Jews not having been communists in Poland.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601  
25 Jun 2009 /  #22
Not being excited at all with who is Jewish and who is not

Some Jewish people are ...and some non Jewish people are.

someone is Jewish when his mother is/was Jewish; in this respect Adam Michnik is not Jewish. The decisive factor is whom the person judges himself;

Exactly, in this case Michnik claims to be Jewish; who is to tell him he isn't?
(If Obama had the same 'tradition' then we couldn't consider him Black although he certainly does).

I cannot imagine people in America insisting that someone who thinks himself an American of Jewish origin is not an American, but Jewish only

Ah, but the U.S. is a hodgpodge.

There exists lots of examples of Poles of Polish (and only Polish) having been communist murderers, just as examples of Jews not having been communists in Poland.

True, yet there is such a thing as percentages. For example, every election 90 pecent of Blacks vote Democratic Party (in the last election it was closer to 98 percent). I know two handfuls of conservative Jewish friends (real friends) who abhor the fact that a relatively high percentage of Jews were communists. ... and they are bothered by the fact that 65 percent voted for Obama.

Archives - 2005-2009 / USA, Canada / Popular US Newspaper offends Poles.Archived