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BEWARE when coming over UK


miranda  
4 Dec 2006 /  #91
you are always having to say something to every topic...to me this is trolling.

wow, never heard of that. But why don't you just stop reading my post, if you are not interested. So we can both use the forum and not get on each others nerves.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
4 Dec 2006 /  #92
Trolling............really Miranda?........yes I agree its best to ignore...but sometimes, something really....really.....gets on your nerves and you have to say something.....!!

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.....is a well worn internet message board chant!!!!
Arien  
4 Dec 2006 /  #93
your....dots...are................really......getting....................on..............my......................nerves.

:)

really, are those dots necessary?

and you have to say something.....!!

yup. :) obviously. :)
Frank 23 | 1,183  
4 Dec 2006 /  #94
Arien, just for you, no more dots.

Well for this post anyways, lol

Have you sought counselling?

Not able to sleep at night?

If not, not really getting on your nerves!

:)

:)

:)
miranda  
4 Dec 2006 /  #95
what did you do guys - it's all streched out:(

Trolling............really Miranda?........

no I am not trolling and I am relly offended by that opinion
Frank 23 | 1,183  
4 Dec 2006 /  #96
no....no....Miranda....you're not trolling....UK_....is........ok....clear?
miranda  
4 Dec 2006 /  #97
it's clear but that person gets really on my nerves by saying it, besides - why people like that are hiding - if there is a problem tell me. I try to post my opinions without trying to offend anybody, but I can see that teh mere fact of posting does not go well with somebody.

Well, I am not going to apologize for who I am - as my good firend says in situations like that.
Maybe that person does not have an opinion and is simply envious. OK - that's not my problem.
Arien  
4 Dec 2006 /  #98
Arien, just for you, no more dots.

thank you. :)

Well for this post anyways, lol

awww. :) :) :)

Have you sought counselling?

yup. but the voices in my head still say I'll have to defeat you in a match of online poker to save the world from an alien invasion. :)

Not able to sleep at night?

not really no. I'm thinking about you all night and all week. will you marry me?! :)

If not, not really getting on your nerves!

oooooh..

and yeah, I'm totally dead serious here. :)

and I apologise for stretching the thread. :) and miranda, your opinions are formulated in a decent way, and an opinion shouldn't normally offend anyone, unless I've been typing it. :)

@ frank: just playing with you. :)
ola123  
4 Dec 2006 /  #99
yes, you are a foreigner. I do wish you a job too, but keep it fair. we need jobs aswell. not really blaming anyone, but I'm just not happy with this situation really.

Those who are there were not happy in Poland and because in fact a little has changed according to recent reports 80% are not coming back and I say that is good because we have still way too high unemployment and there is just no work for these people back at home. Im happy with this situation that they can work and just make normal living abroad.

I thought every EU member is allowed to live anywhere in EU and now all EU including UK is new home for Polish. You just have to accept that or stay unhappy forever :).
miranda  
4 Dec 2006 /  #100
where are you residing Arien?
Frank 23 | 1,183  
4 Dec 2006 /  #101
Play is gud, A!!
Arien  
4 Dec 2006 /  #102
I'll be honest, I've been smoking weed. :)

Those who are there were not happy in Poland and because in fact a little has changed according to recent reports 80% are not coming back and I say that is good because we have still way too high unemployment and there is just no work for these people back at home. Im happy with this situation that they can work and just make normal living abroad.

hey, I'm happy for them too. :) but you still have an invalid point. why? poland has a shortage of construction workers to begin with, and there is work if people actually want to do the work. in poland, some - not all! - people refuse to do agricultural work for and people from ukraine are taking over these jobs?

don't ask me to post articles from polish newspapers and statistics, you already know. and your unemployment rate isn't 80% dear.

I thought every EU member is allowed to live anywhere in EU and now all EU including UK is new home for Polish. You just have to accept that or stay unhappy forever.

I already accepted it. just trying to make you see my side of the story. :)

where are you residing Arien?

in holland, but that'll probably change. my reasons for posting here is because I also have worked with youths from the uk. and I hear and see a lot of things which you don't hear in the news.

but I can predict a wave of extreme right winged politics if no one actually acknowledges that we all have a problem, wether we are polish or whatever.

that's my point. not if the polish are right, or the english or the dutch.

there's something dirty going on alright. and to ola, next year our boarders will go open to hungarian, czech and bulgarian people too.

and they're even cheaper than the polish, so you don't have to be einstein to know what will happen to the polish? I think the majority of them will probably have to return home aswell.

anyway, it's not much different in the uk. I guess I'm hoping for intelligent politicians in brussel who think long term instead of fat pockets.

everyone deserves a chance in my world. :) so don't take this as a ''you're not welcome'' type of posting.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
4 Dec 2006 /  #103
Oh, so you're all mellowed out Arien?????

LOL!!!!!

Well, as a comparator, of all the Irish who emigrated to the USA over the decades, only 6% ever returned to live in Ireland, but, from Italy, 56% returned.......quite a difference!

Don't ask me why though!

No-one knows how many will return and for what reason, all we do know is that joining the EU has allowed the migrant workers from the new countries to avail of much higher paid work than what was available back home...........it won't last for ever, things will change, but at least they got off their butts and tried to improve their lives......therefore you can't berate them for doing that.

Whether they moved inside Poland or inside the EU, is now immaterial....I hope they got as much from the migration as did their new EU neighbours!
Arien  
4 Dec 2006 /  #104
not mellowed out. more like joking again. :) I don't smoke weed. :)

a lot of that is true. but hey, america was quite big and booming in those times. a lot of space too. in italy, and most european countries, there isn't that much room for economical growth anymore.

even america's economy is showing a large recession?

this migration thing for money isn't the next best thing, and I hope people will do something about it so it works out for everyone.

I just got pissed because I see youths doing fu.ck all and they defo want and need the work. and it's the same in england, belgium and france.

but hey, what can we do? :) just shake hands, agree politics suck and get happily drunk together.
ola123  
4 Dec 2006 /  #105
there's something dirty going on alright. and to ola, next year our boarders will go open to hungarian, czech and bulgarian people too.

and they're even cheaper than the polish

Are they? I really doubt, Bulgarians maybe but not so sure. Poland has still the highest unemployment in EU. People will not come back to sit doing nothing back at home. They will stay imo. And that is better for them and for those who stayed in the country.

As for Ukraininans working in Poland there are not many coming, you cant work for 800 zlotys doing agricultural work and make normal living not mentioning savings. Ukrainians will not come to work for 800-1000 zlotys, so there will be shortage of low skilled workers and it is not going to change because of wages.
dulciana - | 28  
4 Dec 2006 /  #106
what pisses me off is you talk about my people like that, but reality is that you don't know our side of the story.

I just want to say I have sympathy for both sides. just look at the bigger picture before you insult people you know nothing about.

For the sake of balance and a degree of "solidarnosk" with the grafters of this world, I accept that some of my comments could be construed as lacking understanding. Point taken, but not entirely.

As for knowing "our side of the story" I don't think you could get much wider of the mark, because I do. In fact, I am in a fairly unique position, in that I have worked at the bottom of the ladder, educated myself, went to uni, qualified, worked my way up to senior management and now....wait for it....drive a truck because I got fed up with companies closing or going bust, and I like trucks.

If I were to work myself to an early grave, I could pull £30,000 a year, but as it is, I manage about £25,000 a year, plus a bit of music, a bit of writing and other odd bits here and there. (I've also written a novel, as yet unpublished....but working on it).

The interesting thing is, anyone can drive a truck if they can raise about £1,000 to get the licence.

The problems always occur at the bottom end of the jobs market, and I absolutely accept that many, many people can never aspire to anything better. There is no sin in that, and yes, there has to be a safety net for people in that situation.

I also accept that there are unscrupulous employers and agencies who will exploit migrant workers and pay them nothing more than minimum wage, and often less, quite illegally. Elsewhere, I have mentioned this problem, and warned people about it. The fact is, there IS a minimum wage, which should apply equally across the board, and there should NOT be the situation in which a Polish worker can undercut an English worker, but it happens, as we know.

However, going back to the "yob culture" thing, there is no doubt in my mind that there is a benefit culture in the UK, and it is most exploited by quite a substantial number of addicted, aimless or criminal classes....sometimes all three at the same time. I know some of the next generation....kids around 14 and 15, who are just like the adults with whom they live or come into contact.

Sadly, many of these youths approach the workplace with criminal records as long as their arm, and no employer will take the risk of employing them; knowing that they would probably be off to jail a few weeks after being set on to work. Apart from that, what employer would want kids with a drug habit, when they are surrounded by dangerous machinery or other risks? Would you want to leave your belongings lying around, knowing that the kid they've just set on is a well known thief with a record?

That is the nature of the problem, and whilst I accept that I may have generalised, I think it would be difficult to disprove.

I'm quite sure there are some especially horrible Polish people, but fortunately, I have yet to bump into them in the workplace.

The whole of Europe has a labour-market problem and an unemployment problem, but the UK fares better tha most, possibly because of an aggressive pursuit of business regeneration and a generous benefits system which enables us to have a flexible work-force.

This is very much the twin result of communist collapse on the one hand, where full-employment was always the aim, and on the other, the side effect to globalisation, as industry drifts towards the Far East and India; making it much more difficult for workers to find ordinary jobs outisde the retail or warehousing sectors.

Lastly, I would admit that I was being a little provocative, but that was my attempt to redress the lurid nonsense uttered by Mr UK, which seemed to be almost drawn from the utterances of the BNP extreme-right wing.
Stupidwelsh  
4 Dec 2006 /  #107
next year our boarders will go open to hungarian, czech and bulgarian

You better tell all the Hungarians who have been living and working here [UK] illegally for the last 2 years then, they thought they were legal and so did I, there’s ‘gut feeling’ and reasoned debate, and a little knowledge is always a dangerous thing

2004: Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia all joined the EU

ETA: It’s Bulgaria and Romania that join next year, but the UK government has placed some pointless restrictions to them working in the UK- they can’t stop them visiting the UK, so it’s my guess is many will be forced to work illegally, which wont do revenues [from income tax], people working in the UK, or responsible businesses any good will it?

I resigned my membership of the Labour Party [governing political party in UK] over this issue.
Arien  
5 Dec 2006 /  #108
I am in a fairly unique position, in that I have worked at the bottom of the ladder, educated myself, went to uni, qualified, worked my way up to senior management and now....wait for it....drive a truck because I got fed up with companies closing or going bust, and I like trucks.

I'm not taking anything away from you but that was some time ago. today, it's a little different. you can't actually work your way up anymore, because you can't actually start somewhere.

but maybe you can tell me what a guy like me is supposed to do then? we have three degrees here in my field of work and I have both the first and the second and the additional safety courses which means I'm allowed to perform inspections on installations too. - I have decent qualifications if you ask me. -

but, I lost my driving license last year due to a new point system which only applies to people between 18 and 25. - nothing serious, you drive 5km too hard 3 times in a period of 2 years and you lose your license. -

so I can't drive a car at the moment so I can't do the work I'm supposed to be doing. so I got fired and have no right on a benefit because it was my fault in the first place that I lost my job.

anyway, here I am, forced to take a temporary job - I live in the middle of nowhere, agricultural region here. - to pay for everything but I don't make enough to save. everytime I get fired because the jobs are temporary, and everytime I encounter employers who rather take foreigners for a number of reasons. so inbetween the jobs I get no wellfare, and my savings drop below zero.

not because I'm stupid, because I actually have good qualifications for a good job. now, I'm happy I was finally able to save enough to switch appartments, so I get more opportunities, but I'll keep saying the competition is unfair, and that there are too much employers who have a lot of unfounded criticism and prejudice towards their ''own'' working class. but in reality, we all know it comes down to one thing: which is money.

and who says we're all thieves with a record aslong as our arms? statistics prove quite different. :) it just makes me mad sometimes when people don't know what's going on in their own countries, because most of them - according from what I see and hear. - really don't. I hear all types of comments aimed at people such as myself, and I know a lot of young people are sleeping rough or resort to selling drugs or other types of activities not to be proud of.

it's just a shame people like you seem to think it's the same for them as it was a while back for you. and that it is all their fault. - everyone can make a mistake though. - because I know better than that.

Are they?

it's a fact. and yeah, I have seen their payrolls for myself. :)

2004: Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia all joined the EU

true, but some of these countries still have restrictions. this year, our boarder will open to polish. next year, probably the rest.

which is bad considering how ''big'' holland is compared to countries like poland. I may sound unfriendly to polish readers and I understand their position just aswell, but it's the truth, we can't ever help the rest of the world to a job here.

there will be a point where people are going to yell ugly things at eachother, and for some I can't even say I blame them.

sorry. :)
ola123  
5 Dec 2006 /  #109
So you agree wit UK who calls us ******* poles?
Frank 23 | 1,183  
5 Dec 2006 /  #110
you drive 5km too hard 3 times in a period of 2 years and you lose your license. -

You're not serious!!......that fascist like?.......no leeway...no re-education first?

Yes....A...the impact has been at the low end of the wage scale, but its not the fault of migrants who are now entitled to moving and working elsewhere, to improve their own lives.

The blame must lie at the door of a never ending line of immoral employers.....mostly in the private sector...who will humiliate and do down their own people, as well as taking advantage of new immigrants, but this has been going on for decades, not new!
ola123  
5 Dec 2006 /  #111
I really cant understand British who are complaining, you really should live in poorer country for a while to see how lucky you are that you were born on Isles.

I just cant see your point sorry :).
Arien  
5 Dec 2006 /  #112
So you agree wit UK who calls us ******* poles?

woah. you got me totally wrong there. no, I do not. :) I agree with some people who want a job in their own country if there are jobs, and I agree with some people who think it's not really fair the way things are going now.

just saying I can - partially! - understand the reason why some people get frustrated. :)
rafik 18 | 589  
5 Dec 2006 /  #113
the polish here, tend to sleep in a bungalow with 20 people. they work shifts of 8 hours in most cases. one group works in the morning, one group works in the evening. they pay a small amount of rent. they are almost the half cheaper as I am.

arien. i can understand why you got angry about what dulciana said but just to some extent.
i know it is not fair to compare polish people,say,in a factory in the uk,to their british partners.why?because a lot of young poles in the uk are well educated ,intelligent,a lot of them university graduates ect.english factory workers?well i am still to meet an english univeristy graduate in my factory.so what's the point in comparing those 2 different group of people?

we would have to compare REAL polish FACTORY workers with english FACTORY workers.i bet that they are pretty the same.
however i don't understand why you just copy and paste this **** about 20 poles living together in one house?this is rubbish!
the only people who i know to live in a big group in one house are those who are employed by employment agencies and it is uncommon.and guess what?those people don't save money because of that.they are charged 65£ for a BED and live 3 in each room.do you think it's their choice?

those who find a place on their own are replaced very quickly by others and the story continious.who's faul is it?all the poles(i know a lot!!!) i know live on their own renting a room or a flat/house some share flats with others (usually a couple+ another couple).

i reckon that this is a common practice among the brits too.what's wrong about that?
Arien  
6 Dec 2006 /  #114
arien. i can understand why you got angry about what dulciana said but just to some extent.

I'm not really angry about what she said, but it's because more and more people say such things! also, I'm not here for understandment, I merely got sick of that tone about our potential working class. look, I have been reading too you know, and I've seen a lot of polish posters who seem to have the idea we're all rich and spoiled over here. so all I did

was making it very clear it isn't like that at all.

i know it is not fair to compare polish people,say,in a factory in the uk,to their british partners.why?because a lot of young poles in the uk are well educated ,intelligent,a lot of them university graduates ect.english factory workers?well i am still to meet an english univeristy graduate in my factory.so what's the point in comparing those 2 different group of people?

I wasn't trying to make any comparissons, but thank you for perfectly illustrating my point once again. :) and if you're a smart fellow, you know exactly what I mean. :)

we would have to compare REAL polish FACTORY workers with english FACTORY workers.i bet that they are pretty the same.

yup, just don't underestimate guys like me. :)

however i don't understand why you just copy and paste this **** about 20 poles living together in one house?this is rubbish!

you should know that's everyday reality, not copy and pasted. rubbish? no. I just illustrated my point.

what you all seem to miss here is one thing, I'm not blaming anyone, not attacking the polish, not attacking the english.

just saying that the way things are going now isn't the right way. people get undercut, the competition is unfair.

if it's fair, and all people get payed the same, then you won't hear me. :)

the only people who i know to live in a big group in one house are those who are employed by employment agencies and it is uncommon.

people get employed by employment agencies and I can tell you it's very common. :)

and guess what? those people don't save money because of that. they are charged 65£ for a BED and live 3 in each room. do you think it's their choice?

no it's not their choice. but do you think 65 pound is a lot??? okay, you share a room with 3 or 4 people but ask them if they want to pay full rent? - I'm sure they will all say no and that's very understandable too! - I pay uhm... 800 euro? so don't be silly, they do save more money, which is not my problem at all!!! I just used that as an example to illustrate that people like me CAN'T do such things, and get PAYED the SAME as them.

hello? unfair? :)

those who find a place on their own are replaced very quickly by others and the story continious.who's faul is it?all the poles(i know a lot!!!) i know live on their own renting a room or a flat/house some share flats with others (usually a couple+ another couple). i reckon that this is a common practice among the brits too.what's wrong about that?

rafik, nice try. I know some of the polish rent their own spaces, but that's not really where people like me have a problem with it. :) my point and all I'm saying is. everyone needs to get paid equal in the eu. so employers will treat everyone equally, and not dismiss people on how much more they cost.

to do any different would be unfair. :) my point, and you can discuss this untill the next millenium but I know I have a point. - and you have a point too -

czy pan rozumie? :)

you really should live in poorer country for a while to see how lucky you are that you were born on Isles.

I challenge you, because I have been to poland and I agree some regions are poor. but I know there are many polish who make way more money than me and have way more things to do. :) look, not being jealous. but just don't tell a former street rat he's so lucky to be born anywhere.

you know what's so funny? all I'm doing is saying things should be reasonably fair. competition on the job market, pay, extra hours. etc. that would be better for all of us you know.

it surprised me you all took it like an attack, I'm all for legal jobs and equality people, so that's all really. sorry if I came across like.. hehe.. like someone else.

:)
dulciana - | 28  
6 Dec 2006 /  #115
I'm not a "she" thank you very much!

The word 'Dulciana' is that of an organ-stop, and I play the organ. (Organi......my Polish is improving in leaps and bounds!)

To the person who says that they have never met a graduate on the shop-floor, I'm a grdauate truck-driver........by choice......but I haven't always done that.

:)
Arien  
6 Dec 2006 /  #116
przepraszam! :)

I don't really look too much at details, and your name struck me as a girl's name, so excuse my french.

and I think being a truck driver while you could be a manager or something like that is very rock 'n roll. :)
rafik 18 | 589  
6 Dec 2006 /  #117
To the person who says that they have never met a graduate on the shop-floor, I'm a grdauate truck-driver........by choice......but I haven't always done that.

i wasn't referring to you.i meant that the english university graduates never work in factories as production operatives but usually go much higher(managment ect).most of the people who work on a line are uneducated so compering them to the poles in such a factory,who mostly are young,open-minded,educated and who now that the only way up is to work harder than others, is not fair and doesn't make any sense.

i do apologize for calling you"she". dulciana sounds like a girl's name:)
Jasiu  
6 Dec 2006 /  #118
dulciana sounds like a girl's name

dulciana is a girl's name which perhaps could be translated something along the lines of sweet-one...

it also has something to do with organs of the musical variety... i am lead to believe... :)
rafik 18 | 589  
6 Dec 2006 /  #119
I'm not really angry about what she said, but it's because more and more people say such things! also, I'm not here for understandment, I merely got sick of that tone about our potential working class. look, I have been reading too you know, and I've seen a lot of polish posters who seem to have the idea we're all rich and spoiled over here. so all I did
was making it very clear it isn't like that at all.

right.this was my point too.

but thank you for perfectly illustrating my point once again.

no problem.this was exactly what i meant.

the competition is unfair.

if it's fair, and all people get payed the same, then you won't hear me.

this is unrealistic.some people get 5.35£/hour here others 9£/hour but belive me i know a lot of polish people in the uk and can tell you they get paid exactly the same money as the english workers.

no it's not their choice. but do you think 65 pound is a lot

it is a lot.it is even worse if it's a couple.
65£+65£ a week gives you 130£ times four=520£ a month just for a room. i thin it is about 700 euro.

like me CAN'T do such things

why not.if you are single,rent a room and you also can save a lot of money.

some of the polish rent their own spaces

not some, arien-most of them.
it used to be like that in 2004 when people started coming to the uk but the situation has changed dramaticly in the last 2 years.i guess i know over hundred polish people here and ALL of them rent their own rooms/flats/houses.some of this people share their places with others but usually it's 4 people in a 2 bedroom flat/house.
dulciana - | 28  
7 Dec 2006 /  #120
The BNP skinheads came around to my home, asking if I would ever consider voting for them.

I thought for a moment and delighted them with a ,"Yes."

After a pause, I added, "....but only if Robert Mugabwe becomes our Prime Minister."

I don't really look too much at details, and your name struck me as a girl's name, so excuse my french.

and I think being a truck driver while you could be a manager or something like that is very rock 'n roll.

====================

Sadly, I've had to take an enormous drop in income in order to drive a truck, but by making economies, I find I can live on £30K per year. The Jaguar just had to go!

:)

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