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What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?


Robert A 1 | 102  
27 Nov 2008 /  #31
Yes, but I meant after only the general examination.

I stand by my original comment. What was then considered to be thorough may very well be considered "cursory" by today's standards.

Robert A:

Probably for good reason

Can you name me one?

The documents have been destroyed.

100 years, and anyone with a voice against Britain will be 6 feet under.

There will always be historians seeking answers to questions such as yours.

I thought the EU strived for transparency? I guess not.

As I understand it, this statement applies to the EU in its current form - and is not applied retrospectively to its member states; as the EU was not in existence at that time, it would be difficult to enforce. I for one do not care for such socio-politcal statements - I am a cynic and tend to view such as a smoke screen.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
27 Nov 2008 /  #32
The documents have been destroyed.

If so, why havn't they brought this to the publics attention? It would save everyone a lot of trouble. And why would they have been destroyed in the first place? Wasn't it just an 'accident?' Does the British govermnent make a habit out of burning documents pertaining to seemingly innocent cases like this?

There will always be historians seeking answers to questions such as yours.

Maybe so. But 100 years is a hell of a long time. British govermnent is very pragmatic in their approach. They realize that by then, these historians will most likely be working independently, and not in state interest. Who cares though? We'll be dead by then anyway, and without answers.

I am a cynic and tend to view such as a smoke screen.

I was being quite cynical in my original statement. Next time I'll put an asterix beside it.
Robert A 1 | 102  
27 Nov 2008 /  #33
Does the British govermnent make a habit out of burning documents pertaining to seemingly innocent cases like this?

As it happens, they do!

Who cares though? We'll be dead by then anyway, and without answers.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing . . . :)

I was being quite cynical in my original statement

You? Cynical? Never! You strike me as being wholly earnest in your search for the truth.
JulietEcho 3 | 100  
27 Nov 2008 /  #34
If that's the case, could someone point me to what Poland got (ie benefit, or simply commensurate consideration) out of the many wars and struggles that Poland participated in for the benefit of others?

- If you consider that the 2 most agressive nations in the world: Germany and Russia border with us... And most of the times they end up going against one another.

Where do you think the Liberator bombers that supplied Warsaw during the uprising came from?

- Just to set a record straight: Poles ( and some volunteers from other nations) were piloting those Liberators, England gave up on supporting Warsaw uprising right before it actually started.
Bzibzioh  
27 Nov 2008 /  #35
Poland would be second to fight because Germany attacked Poland and therefore Germany was first to fight.

Do you like to argue for the sport? If not it's frightening example of twisted logic.

Either way, Poland was first to surrender.

And your point would be ...?

How do you reach the causal link between Solidarity and the fall of the Berlin wall? You could equally easily say that Solidarity wouldn't have happened without the Hungarian and Czech rebellions. It certainly wouldn't have taken the form it did without those two earlier events and the reaction of the Commies would have been different too.

The main difference is that earlier rebellions failed; Solidarity won. And opened doors for others.
Btw. Czech rebellion was not really anti-communist but that's another topic entirely.

But don't let little things like facts get in the way of your Christ complex....

You wrote this comment just to write this sentence, didn't you?
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810  
27 Nov 2008 /  #36
I must somehow missed the Poles trampling on the Berliner wall in this days in 1989...were there many taking part in the mondays demonstrations in Leipzig?

Funny thing....Dokus have shown that the east german Stasi would have used military if Moskau had backed them. But Gorbatschow showed them the finger as they begged desperatedly....

So...it's more a matter of russian perestroika than the polish Solidarity that the Berlin wall fell!

If you consider that the 2 most agressive nations in the world: Germany and Russia

Ahem....wanna compare histories of Germany and...say....GB...or France...or Spain....or whatever?

And most of the times they end up going against one another.

How often was that?
Prince 15 | 590  
27 Nov 2008 /  #37
Hmmm not all Germans are like Bratwurst. Some know the truth :

Poster from Berlin
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810  
27 Nov 2008 /  #38
Well...I'm glad that most are not like you Luki! :)
Prince 15 | 590  
27 Nov 2008 /  #39
I am not German and I'm glad :)
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810  
27 Nov 2008 /  #40
Okay....and that has to do with this topic exactly what???
Just wanting to vituperate again? The virtual bar is that way....
Prince 15 | 590  
27 Nov 2008 /  #41
In this case we both misinterpreted our posts :)
Seanus 15 | 19,674  
27 Nov 2008 /  #42
Prince needs a map
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149  
27 Nov 2008 /  #43
What did Poland get out of it?

Yawn... The only funny thing in this topic is the chosen lecturing others on the historical accuracy... lol...
Seanus 15 | 19,674  
27 Nov 2008 /  #44
Are you back in employment, Greg? Getting sth out of Poland?
Robert A 1 | 102  
27 Nov 2008 /  #45
Yawn... The only funny thing in this topic is the chosen lecturing others on the historical accuracy... lol...

Indeed . . . so why are you quoting me Muttley?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149  
27 Nov 2008 /  #46
Are you back in employment, Greg?

And I've got at work that kind of closet with s*it watching you... scarry stuff...
Seanus 15 | 19,674  
27 Nov 2008 /  #47
Greg is like a Romulan vessel. He decloaks and fires off a lame comment or two, then disappears back into a cloaked state, not to be seen for a while.

I'll have to start calling him Tomalok. It even looks Polish.

Scary closets? You should report to Polish TAPS and go onto Polish Ghost Hunters, LOL
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
27 Nov 2008 /  #49
- haha - fooled you
z_darius 14 | 3,965  
27 Nov 2008 /  #50
Either way, Poland was first to surrender.

No Harry, Poland was not the first to surrender but you are first to make a fool of yourself by this post.

Czechoslovakia was first to surrender. Poland was first to fight against Germans and Poles put up a damn good fight, while Soviets stabbing Poles in their backs. Only those filled with hatred against Poles can interpret history otherwise.
Harry  
28 Nov 2008 /  #51
If you mean the 303 squadron, thats far from extending it to "all Polish airmen."

I do mean them. You will see that I didn't say "all Polish airmen". But why bother trying to debate what I say when you can just claim I said other things and then debate those statements. Much easier for you to just lie, isn't it?

I suggest you check your manipulated British sources.

I suggest you check who wikipedia is quoting: it is a Polish source.

VaFunkoolo:
Poles, not bothering to turn up...?

Never

Well, neither the free Poles nor the representatives of the official government bothered to turn up at the victory parade despite both being invited. And you have done nothing but whine about it ever since.

Harry:
Well not unless the currently accepted history of the Gliwice incident is completely wrong and Poland actually did attack that radio tower. If Poland didn't, Poland would be second to fight because Germany attacked Poland and therefore Germany was first to fight.

You have doubts about this? What happened in Czechoslovakia with the German Sudeten party? What about Austrian anchluss? If you have any doubts whatsoever about Hitlers tactics, I recommend you read up about them.

So you are admitting that Poland was second to fight? Good.

- Just to set a record straight: Poles ( and some volunteers from other nations) were piloting those Liberators, England gave up on supporting Warsaw uprising right before it actually started.

Those are what are called lies. No. 31 Squadron of the South African Royal Air Force was not Polish and had no Polish pilots. Same for No. 148 Squadron of the Royal Air Force, No. 178 Squadron of the Royal Air Force, and No. 34 Squadron of the South African Royal Air Force. Yes the British squadrons flew Halifaxes rather than Liberators but the Polish squadron flew two other types of planes as well as Liberators. Even the most Polish of sources, the Museum of the Warsaw Uprising admits that the majority of the non-Russian pilots who supplied Warsaw are not Polish.

1944.pl/index.php?a=site_text&id=12440&se_id=12448

As for your other lie, Britain supported the Uprising: it was your heroes from the USA who didn't want to upset Uncle Joe and so refused to press him for use of the bases in the USSR. Read a bit of history for a change instead of just lying.

No Harry, Poland was not the first to surrender but you are first to make a fool of yourself by this post.

Czechoslovakia was first to surrender. Poland was first to fight against Germans and Poles put up a damn good fight, while Soviets stabbing Poles in their backs. Only those filled with hatred against Poles can interpret history otherwise.

The Czechs got properly sold down the river by both the British (the Munich fiasco) and the American (made virtually no attempt to push on into Czechoslovakia and handed the bits they had captured to the Soviets). But you don't hear Czechs ******** and moaning about it in the way that Poles do. They're respectful for the efforts which were made to help them and don't just lie about what happened.

You tell me where the last of the Czech forces surrendered to Germany and I'll tell you where the last of the Polish forces surrendered to Germany.

Poland: second to fight and first surrender.
Poles: lying and whining about the war since 1939.
z_darius 14 | 3,965  
28 Nov 2008 /  #52
The Czechs got properly sold down the river by both the British (the Munich fiasco) and the American (made virtually no attempt to push on into Czechoslovakia and handed the bits they had captured to the Soviets).

So was Poland.
Chamberlain went out of his way to convince Poland to not mobilize any forces, in order not to pisss Hitler off, as if he hadn't been since his birth.

But you don’t hear Czechs ******** and moaning about it in the way that Poles do. They’re respectful for the efforts which were made to help them and don’t just lie about what happened.

They have no reason whatsoever to complain. They did not put ANY fight against nazis. What grounds would they have to complain? Poles fought from day one to the last day of WW2 and they were betrayed. But you need to have an IQ at least in the upper range of 2 digits to see the difference.

You tell me where the last of the Czech forces surrendered to Germany and I’ll tell you where the last of the Polish forces surrendered to Germany.

Threatening a Luftwaffe attack on Prague, Hitler persuaded Hácha to order the capitulation of the Czechoslovak army. On the morning of March 15, German troops entered Bohemia and Moravia, meeting no resistance.

After that Czechs had no reasons to surrender.

Poland: second to fight and first surrender.
Poles: lying and whining about the war since 1939.

Only a Jew can hate Poland that much.
Harry  
28 Nov 2008 /  #53
Chamberlain went out of his way to convince Poland to not mobilize any forces, in order not to pisss Hitler off, as if he hadn't been since his birth.

A classic Polish move: blame other people for your own mistakes. Your very own Colonel Beck was worried about giving Hitler a pretext to invade (that was the reason Poland wasn’t fully mobilised when the attack came, or did Poles suddenly decide in 1939 that for the first time in their history they would do what a Brit told them to). He was so worried that he wouldn’t even let Britain send any service personnel at all to Poland before the German attack.

They have no reason whatsoever to complain. They did not put ANY fight against nazis. What grounds would they have to complain? Poles fought from day one to the last day of WW2 and they were betrayed. But you need to have an IQ at least in the upper range of 2 digits to see the difference.

Pity that your IQ can’t see the difference between the USA and UK when assessing who betrayed Poland. The UK fought a war which it didn’t need to fight, for six long years, to defend Polish independence. Not that Poles ever have even a single word of thanks for that. Only lies and complaints. With hindsight, the UK should probably have been like Sweden and Switzerland. Hitler had no quarrel with the English.

Harry:
Poland: second to fight and first surrender.
Poles: lying and whining about the war since 1939.

Only a Jew can hate Poland that much.

I dislike some things about Poland and the average Pole. So in your mind I must be Jewish. You must be Polish. The pity for you is that you can’t organise your traditional entertainment (i.e. a pogrom) because the Germans killed all your Jews.
z_darius 14 | 3,965  
28 Nov 2008 /  #54
A classic Polish move: blame other people for your own mistakes. Your very own Colonel Beck was worried about giving Hitler a pretext to invade (that was the reason Poland wasn’t fully mobilised when the attack came, or did Poles suddenly decide in 1939 that for the first time in their history they would do what a Brit told them to). He was so worried that he wouldn’t even let Britain send any service personnel at all to Poland before the German attack.

Bottom line is Poles put up a fight. Czechs did not. Therefore Czechs are to be admired, Poles to be laughed at. Using your logic, a person who never went to school is a more admirable scholar than someone who failed an exam among many he took.

Pity that your IQ can’t see the difference between the USA and UK when assessing who betrayed Poland.

Both did.

The UK fought a war which it didn’t need to fight, for six long years

UK did not fight for 6 years at all. And as soon as they started they were humiliated, and the humiliation came very swift. They did not surrender. They escaped since thay had not a chance against Germans. When you laugh at Poles, pause for a second and think (if you can) how a poor, and young country was a match in a conflict with Germany and USSR, when combined forces of two superpowers France and Britain got beat so badly by Germans alone.

Not that Poles ever have even a single word of thanks for that. Only lies and complaints.

You hate filled Jew always fail to be fair. Words mean squat. Brits offered a lot of those in 1939. They were useless. Poles, in contrast, fought for Britain and the effort was significant.

So in your mind I must be Jewish.

You don't have. You simply are, and you don;t need to be ashamed of that, only of your personal hatred.

You must be Polish.

Yes, I am and always will be.

The pity for you is that you can’t organise your traditional entertainment (i.e. a pogrom) because the Germans killed all your Jews.

All Poles did was organize pogroms against Jews, and yet Jews flocked to Poland, escaping from all other parts of Europe, straight into the claws of the Polish anti-semite. Not only did that happened once or twice but Jews were so stupid that they kept on heading towards a slaughter for nearly 1000 years.

You don't hold your own Jewish kind in high esteem, do you?
A self hating Jew?
Harry  
28 Nov 2008 /  #55
Bottom line is Poles put up a fight. Czechs did not.

Tell that to Reinhard Heydrich. How many high-ranking Nazis did the Polish kill?

Therefore Czechs are to be admired, Poles to be laughed at.

Who’s laughing at Poles? Not me. Must be that insecurity that is so common to Poles.

UK did not fight for 6 years at all. And as soon as they started they were humiliated, and the humiliation came very swift. They did not surrender. They escaped since thay had not a chance against Germans.

The UK did not fight for six years? You want me to list all the battles British forces fought from 1939 to 1945? After that we can list all the ones the Poles fought in that time. Although we’d better not include the 1943 Warsaw uprising, you don’t consider those people Poles do you.

You hate filled Jew always fail to be fair.

Always nice to see your bigotry on display.

Harry:
So in your mind I must be Jewish.

You don't have. You simply are, and you don;t need to be ashamed of that, only of your personal hatred.

Here’s the small problem you: I’m not Jewish. And before you ask, neither were either of my parents. You, however, are a bigot.

All Poles did was organize pogroms against Jews, and yet Jews flocked to Poland, escaping from all other parts of Europe, straight into the claws of the Polish anti-semite. Not only did that happened once or twice but Jews were so stupid that they kept on heading towards a slaughter for nearly 1000 years.

Talk about ancient history all you want, the fact remains that after WWII the few Polish Jews who survived the holocaust got such a welcome when they got home that almost all of them left Poland. How nice of you Poles to finish Hitler’s work.

You don't hold your own Jewish kind in high esteem, do you?

I hold Jew in no higher or lower esteem than I hold Poles. That’s because, unlike you, I am not a bigot.
Borrka 37 | 593  
28 Nov 2008 /  #56
Just my five cents.
Losing time on discussion with a person lying on purpose does not make too much sense.
I couldn't care less about Harry's opinions but he makes a kind of interesting creature - should be stuffed and presented on the next world's anti-Polonism exhibition.

Don't answer Harry.
Try to grow your IQ first.
Harry  
28 Nov 2008 /  #57
Losing time on discussion with a person lying on purpose does not make too much sense.

Quote a single lie I've told.

I've been quite happy to show the lies posted here by Poles.
Piorun - | 658  
28 Nov 2008 /  #58
Let me return the favor and point out only the latest lie told by you. I don’t want to embarrass you too much.

Although we’d better not include the 1943 Warsaw uprising, you don’t consider those people Poles do you.

When you learn your history better maybe you will stop confusing events, just because something sounds alike does not mean it refers to the same event. Just to remind you so you can read about it.

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
Warsaw Uprising

When you refresh your history you will see that 1943 event was called Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and it was Jewish insurgency.

Warsaw Uprising was in 1944 and was orchestrated by the Polish Home Army and it had nothing to do with “those people” as you put it.

The rest of this post I’ll take as your opinion so I’ll refrain from pointing out the obvious dishonesty, you just don’t know any better.
z_darius 14 | 3,965  
28 Nov 2008 /  #59
Tell that to Reinhard Heydrich. How many high-ranking Nazis did the Polish kill?

Wow! A Czech killed a German!
You're asking me how many high ranking German officers Poles killed? I thought you knew something about Poland's history. Or is it that you chose to mention only those parts which fit your homophobic agenda?

The UK did not fight for six years?

No, it didn't.
WW2 started on Sept 1 1939, ended on May 8/9 1945. That's 2076 (2077) days. 4 years is 2191 or 2192 days (depending on how leap years work out). Ergo, Brits DID NOT fight for 6 years in WW2.

Here’s the small problem you: I’m not Jewish. And before you ask, neither were either of my parents.

's okay, I understand.

Talk about ancient history all you want, the fact remains that after WWII the few Polish Jews who survived the holocaust got such a welcome when they got home that almost all of them left Poland.

You are really a sick bastard.

I am not a bigot.

You posts are for all to see here, liar.

Quote a single lie I've told.

Here you go:

The UK fought a war which it didn’t need to fight, for six long years

That's obviously a lie. Neither these alleged six years are any longer than other six year periods, nor did Brits fight for six years in WW2.

Anotrher one:

Although we’d better not include the 1943 Warsaw uprising

There is no such thing in history of WW2 as 1943 Warsaw uprising.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Nov 2008 /  #60
The rest of this post I’ll take as your opinion so I’ll refrain from pointing out the obvious dishonesty, you just don’t know any better.

Sadly, :( I tend to feel "Harry" knows how to bs and alter history to hurt Poland's pride and enjoys trying. Therefore I feel the best action as Borrka offered,

interesting creature - should be stuffed and presented on the next world's anti-Polonism exhibition.

would be best. :)

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