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Is it time to tighten gun laws in Poland?


hairball 20 | 313  
10 Nov 2008 /  #1
Police have arrested a 25-year-old man in a church in the Lubuskie region of Poland for shooting a woman in the mouth with an air rifle, during mass.

polskieradio/thenews/news/?id=95549
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
10 Nov 2008 /  #2
Oh yes lets ban them all just because of a few nutters....We had this in the UK , one of the reasons i left the place...Kill thousands of kids in the UK with a car , no problem , parents are not going to shout about banning cars , because the parents don,t want to walk their fat asses anywhere , but get a group of childern killed by a nutter with a gun , and all of us normal people who own one lose the right to have it.... I don,t want to see everybody running around with guns , like in the USA , but neither do i want then banned....make guns illegal , and only the criminals will have guns....
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387  
10 Nov 2008 /  #3
Is it time to tighten gun laws in Poland?

I don't see any need to change the law because of one idiot.

The article doesn't say if the weapon was gas powered. If it was then she is very fortunate not to have suffered serious injury.

Remember this was an air-rifle, not a Magnum 44
Dawid  
10 Nov 2008 /  #4
What planet are you from?

Gun laws in Poland are already among strictest in world. Only a few thousand pozwolenie na bron are issued to a country of nearly 40 million people. It takes at least one year to obtain such permit, with mandatory training courses, and then only for sporting purposes, not legal to carry, and must be locked in safe at home. Also cost is very high.

Air guns do not require permit. However, law requires energy rating of any air gun (determined by velocity x weight of projectile) to be below a certain number of joules, to ensure it does not have enough power to seriously hurt anybody.

Media inspired reactionism is not good reason to call for leglislation. As wildrover says look what happened in UK. Violence there is now spiked very high among youth despite complete ban of guns. Despite the nutter in church there is no serious gun problem here in Poland.
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
10 Nov 2008 /  #5
Remember this was an air-rifle

Some air rifles are powerfull enough to kill if you get shot in the head by one...or you get it shoved up your ass , which is what i would have done to the hero who shot and wounded my cat back in the UK... Shooting is a fun sport , but i do think more could be done to keep them out of the hands of nutters and children....
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #6
Haha...heheh....oh my. Air rifle? Gun laws?

This has to be a joke.
Dawid  
10 Nov 2008 /  #7
Some air rifles are powerfull enough to kill if you get shot in the head by one

Such powerful air rifles are already banned in Poland. The limit is 17 joules. You can not even kill a rat with this.

To put into perspective, an air rifle that fires a typical 4,5 gram pellet (śrut) can only have a low muzzle velocity, less than 100 meters per second.

A real rifle usually has muzzle velocity of over 750 meters per second with a bullet that weighs at least 120 grams.

I agree this must be a joke! I see that I have only been a member of PF for a couple days, but the number of people here who are uneducated, spreading disinformation, trolling, and/or deliberately making controversy with incorrect statements is very high. It would be a full-time job to properly moderate this forum.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #8
I agree, laws here are strict enough. In Scotland too, we have strict tests for hunters. They must have a certain acreage of land if I remember. My best friend's dad was a hunter, he had to undergo a rigorous test to get one.

We must simply accept that some people have the will and the means to get hold of them. Sinister folk I mean. It's a delicate issue as maybe sb is really violent but nobody has caught them. They get hold of a gun and it's potentially dangerous. However, can u deny people a gun (in the USA) based on a hunch or mild suspicion? That'd be tantamount to prejudice.
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #9
However, can u deny people a gun (in the USA) based on a hunch or mild suspicion?

Actually yes they can...though it may not be necessarily "legal" to do so. But gun stores are private businesses and unless you can prove they are refusing to sell to you because of your skin color or religion etc they don't HAVE to sell you anything. I have seen and heard stories of people being asked to leave because they appeared suspicious or 'off'.

Convicted felons and those with certain psychiatric conditions are also prohibited from purchasing most "guns". You can't just go plop cash on the counter and walk out with a gun with no ID or background check regardless of what the propaganda says.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #10
I guess it stands to reason. The shop owner must use their discretion. Nobody said life was fair.

People get refused beer on the grounds that they look 'off'
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
10 Nov 2008 /  #11
Actually yes they can...though it may not be necessarily "legal" to do so.

just like trying to get into a club...."sorry, wrong shoes mate".
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #12
Agreed...that is why it is such a slippery slope to try and ban everything that can hurt people. I will never end and is not effective. I can find endless things to be used as weapons that nobody would think twice about being dangerous.

How would you like to be beaten to death with a 5kg bag of pierogi or burned to death with a can of hair spray and a lighter?

It is stupid to blame the tool for the user's lack of self control or just plan evil nature.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #13
Guns can provoke a response in themselves. If I walked into a black area with a gun, not looking particularly menacing, they would still feel intimidated and may resort to aggression. A sign of hostility.

My point is that I'd feel so much more comfortable walking into an area where I knew they didn't have guns. It would make things so much better if guns weren't there, needless to say.
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
10 Nov 2008 /  #14
It is stupid to blame the tool for the user's lack of self control or just plan evil nature.

maybe, but when criminals/idiots can easily obtain access to firearms does this not excasberate the issue?

its like a domino effect.

the crims have a gun therefore i need a gun....that guy has a gun and looks dodgey, better get a gun....and so forth and so forth.
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #15
maybe, but when criminals/idiots can easily obtain access to firearms does this not excasberate the issue?

Do you really think criminals and idiots are getting their guns in the local sporting shop usually? They get them through smugglers and the black market just like they do here in Poland and any other place.

Again....criminals will always have guns even if they are illegal. I could buy a handgun here in Warsaw if I knew the right people. Hell they raid a flat full of Kalashinovs etc every so often here.

If I walked into a black area with a gun, not looking particularly menacing, they would still feel intimidated and may resort to aggression. A sign of hostility.

On the first point only a moron does that...most people who carry guns for defense carry them concealed and in may places that is the law to do so.

On the second...OF COURSE...the point is BAD GUYS will always have them. Bans only remove them from the hands of law abiding people. That's like saying the world would be better without war....clearly so....but if one nation gets rid of it's military (especially if they have valuable resources) then SOMEBODY with an army will take them over. Can't end gun violence unless ALL guns are gone. Never going to happen.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #16
Then the right to bear arms was a mistake in the first place?
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #17
No...because the founding fathers knew that the 'bad' people...whether those be criminals or a tyrannical government would always be able to get them...and their desire was to give people the means to protect themselves.

Did you know the Japanese were afraid to invade the US mainland during WWII because they knew so many people were armed?

The government in the USA knows if they want to control the people they have to do it through more sly methods and paperwork as force would never work with the American population. Now most likely we are past the days of violent overthrows is developed Western countries....but our constitution and it's provisions were not mistakes...if anything it was incomplete (ie right for certain people to vote etc)
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
10 Nov 2008 /  #18
If they ban em i have a pointed stick as well.....
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #19
Don't worry pointy sticks and anything harder than foam will be banned in the UK soon enough...followed by the rest of 'progressive' Europe. Everything will be made out of Nerf like material. It could have some advantages but would make other things incredibly difficult.
IronsE11 2 | 442  
10 Nov 2008 /  #20
Unbelievable!! Ban this! Ban that! Soon enough everything will be banned!! It's ridiculous!!

Next they'll be banning abortion!

Sometimes I really feel that my country has gone to the dogs.

*sigh*
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #21
Sometimes I really feel that my country has gone to the dogs.

Yes and they **** all over because everyone is too lazy too pick it up and use the special bins made for it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #22
Oh, and we are devoid of 'bad' people in Europe? I'm sure certain mafia elements have them here but on a small scale. What are the laws of self defence in America now? I studied them way back but times have changed.
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
10 Nov 2008 /  #23
What are the laws of self defence

If somebody comes on my farm and looks like they are a danger to me it isn,t going to matter what the law is...better to be judged by 12 men than carried to the grave by four as they say....
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
10 Nov 2008 /  #24
of course, there will always be a black market for items. and guns could always be obtained by any means, much like drugs.

in australia, you need a gun licence (no semi automatic/automatics) and have to pass stringent tests and have to keep you firearm locked in a cabinet.

we do have firearms crimes, but no where near the amount per capita of the USA.

No...because the founding fathers knew that the 'bad' people...

did it not have more to do with the red coats and the right to bear arms to form a regulated militia. i think mel gibson's film "the patriot" also alludes to this.
IronsE11 2 | 442  
10 Nov 2008 /  #25
better to be judged by 12 men than carried to the grave by four as they say....

I'm sure Tony Martin agrees.
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #26
Who said there are no bad people here?

re defense laws it varies by state. Generally as long as you are found to use force in defense of life and sometimes property you will not be punished. Clearly if you shoot someone in the back 5 times for stepping in your grass you will have have issues and rightly so. Now there have been some iffy cases but most of those have had the facts spun out of control by the media or propagandists.

There was a recent case of a father who wrestled an intruder down who had a knife and was in his house trying to rape his teen daughter. He ended up killing the intruder with his bare hands and was not charged. Had the intruder been bigger, high or had friends it would have ended much differently.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #27
I just wanted to make the point that we get by without guns OK.
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
10 Nov 2008 /  #28
I'm sure Tony Martin agrees.

Tony martin was muppet enough to admit he lay in wait for the bandits..rather than stating they burst through his door as he was sleeping and put him in fear of his life...not a mistake i would make.....
IronsE11 2 | 442  
10 Nov 2008 /  #29
I guess you live and learn...
gtd 3 | 639  
10 Nov 2008 /  #30
Tony martin was muppet enough

Muppet cracks me up...in my context it was a cool puppet that made me laugh as a kid. To hear it used as an insult still doesn't quite track.

I see nothing wrong with planning for the bad guys to come but for sure telling the powers that be that is not a wise choice.

I just wanted to make the point that we get by without guns OK.

I bet you could get on fine without cars as well...and they kill FAR more people than guns. Let's ban those too.....and beer....and fast food...oh what else can we ban to keep people from getting hurt? Maybe Mountains! People get hurt all the time hiking and climbing....and the ocean...people drown so let's ban water....

On and on.....

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