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Poland. Sold for nothing.


Rafal_1981  
10 Apr 2009 /  #272
I wouldn't say beloved - rather more reasonable and historically aware.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,969  
10 Apr 2009 /  #273
So...you think western Germans hate Russians as the Poles do?

What do you mean with "historically aware"?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
10 Apr 2009 /  #274
So...you think western Germans hate Russians as the Poles do?

Poles dont hate Russians, quite the opposit but then again what do you know about Slavic countries, and no i'm not esoteric its just that its impossible for a German who havent lived in Poland or Eastern Europe for an extensive amount of time to understand the dynamics of the interaction.

Just for the record, Russians are very popular in Poland, never in any point of history were Russians hated or disliked as individuals, Germans have been seen either as weaklings and traitor and later in history as opressors and murderers but Russians who were in many respects just as bad as Germans never, go figure.

@Nathan.

Ukraine and Germany had fascist regimes and thats it for the relationship. Germans used Ukrainians and Ukrainians allowed themselves to be used and thats it.

What do you mean with "historically aware"?

Drawing lessons from history, for example if Western powers would be historically aware and realize that Germany is the "sick man of Europe"(guess who's favorite quote is that) early after WW1 there would not be WW2.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,969  
10 Apr 2009 /  #275
Just for the record, Russians are very popular in Poland, never in any point of history were Russians hated or disliked as individuals, Germans have been seen either as weaklings and traitor and later in history as opressors and murderers but Russians who were in many respects just as bad as Germans never, go figure.

I for one know that this isn't true in the case of Russia/German history...
So I very much doubt your other generalizations as well and I think we can safely put that as "esoteric" too...

I come to think that you write stuff as you need that not as it is...now the Russians are widely popular as in a yesterdays post of your's they are the biggest threat to european civilization and have barely managed to speak like humans???

Get a grip man...

Germans have been seen either as weaklings and traitor

...traitor to what? Do you have a link for that? So...do you think only Slavs can understand/befriend each other??? You are not being Crowie in disguise, aren't you?

Germans have been seen either as weaklings and traitor and later in history as opressors and murderers

How come if they only won 1 or 2 wars against the 60 or 70 polish victories??? I'm puzzled once more...:)
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Apr 2009 /  #276
Poles dont hate Russians, quite the opposit but then again what do you know about Slavic countries

well, in my 4 years in Poland I've met more people talking bad about Russians than Germans.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,969  
11 Apr 2009 /  #277
Actually that's the impression I get from this board too...but then...what do I know...:(
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Apr 2009 /  #278
your impression is absolutely right according to my experiences with many Polish people.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
11 Apr 2009 /  #279
The good thing is, here in Silesia, Poland retained a second language in German. It was hardly sold for nothing. Still, speaking German can get funny looks. My fiancee's parents speak it fluently having been raised in German. When they speak on the phone to a German relative, the Poles give them a strange look.
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Apr 2009 /  #280
When they speak on the phone to a German relative, the Poles give them a strange look.

it's time for changes. Both sides need to respect each other. This hatred ******** got to go.
berni23 7 | 379  
11 Apr 2009 /  #281
Sokrates:
Germans have been seen either as weaklings and traitor

...traitor to what? Do you have a link for that?

You are dang annoying!
Wanna link?
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Apr 2009 /  #282
You are dang annoying!

what annoys you so bad?
I'm asking because just look at the facts of WWII, it took allies 5 damn years to beat the Germans. Would it take that long if Germans where weaklings? Try to forgive and carry on.
MarcinK - | 36  
11 Apr 2009 /  #283
Try to forgive

Forgive, yes; forget, no.

and carry on.

No other choice but to.
Rafal_1981  
11 Apr 2009 /  #284
This thread was originally posted to talk about the anti-missile shield.

I've found a Hilary Clinton statement (dated for 24th March '09) about the shield:

"As members of NATO, we take seriously our alliance commitments and I'm very confident that we will work through any issues that lie ahead -- on any front,"

"Poland's president has said that scrapping the project to improve ties with Russia would be an unfriendly gesture toward Poland."

"Russia says missile defense in Europe is unnecessary and provocative. Moscow even has threatened to deploy short-range missiles in its westernmost region, bordering Poland, if the U.S. goes ahead. But the rhetoric has since cooled."

foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/24/clinton-seeks-reassure-poland-missile-shield/

Aren't Rammstein Berliners?

Half of them are. Yes, they are Ossis; all of them.
berni23 7 | 379  
11 Apr 2009 /  #285
I'm not denying that, it's just the constant request for links that got me going.
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
11 Apr 2009 /  #286
2 to Cossacks

Should we laugh together, Sokrates, or you like to do that alone? 2 battles? hahahah

Ukraine and Germany had fascist regimes and thats it for the relationship. Germans used Ukrainians and Ukrainians allowed themselves to be used and thats it.

Some Ukrainians cooperated with Germans to fight Poles and Russians in order to gain independance. When they realized that Germans aren't willing to help out, but on the other hand suppressed that movement, they began fighting against Germans as well. That's one of the reasons why BB's opas couldn't "march on the hostile territory" for too long. :)
pawian 190 | 19,038  
11 Apr 2009 /  #287
Do you remember my prediction that Poland, who thinks that she is a queen.

Hmm, are you sure it is illusion? The area in Redzikowo where the shield is supposed to be built is being steadily developed. Local authorities claim they are constantly visited by Americans and the project gained speed instead of slowing or stopping down.

tvn24.pl/-1,1595154,0,1,tarcza-wstrzymana-w-slupsku-wiedza--ze-wcale-nie,wiadomosc.html
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,969  
11 Apr 2009 /  #288
Forgive, yes; forget, no.

Who is asking you to???

That's one of the reasons why BB's opas couldn't "march on the hostile territory" for too long. :)

But still doesn't make for a "deeply intertwined history" but rather a "pain in the ass"...:)
(Not much change to today...)

Yes, they are Ossis; all of them.

Yup!
Borrka 37 | 594  
11 Apr 2009 /  #289
Now, when the american missle shield turned into illusion

I'm really sorry Kostik, to disappoint you LOL.
In todays Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza newest report from construction site in Slupsk.
'Missile Shield' project is being run without any delays so don't get that exited, my friend.
Only this thread does not make too much sense.

Despite the ambiguous statements about Barack Obama's missile defense work in Slupsk going as if nothing had happened . Americans are doing database design , MON took over the land on which it is built , are built around the way

The President of the United States said last Sunday in Prague that the missile shield could affect the suspension of Iran 's nuclear program .

Five days before the onset of Slupsk was vice-ambassador of the United States Pamela Quanrud . Informed local authorities that the United States does not forgo investment and the future looked terrain database ...
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
11 Apr 2009 /  #290
"pain in the ass"...:)

Exactly, if you feel it than there is some historical connection...:)
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Apr 2009 /  #292
Danzig had 98 percent german citizens

historical fact, not to be ignored :-)

If Poland has been sold so many times, who the hell keeps buying it?

good 1, lol
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
12 Apr 2009 /  #293
Okay...I give up...

So German-like... ;)
shopgirl 6 | 928  
12 Apr 2009 /  #294
Now, when the american missle shield turned into illusion because of the money, new american president is saying that they will refuse this idea in exchenge for russian support in iran cause. What Poland has in this situation?

I would think that Poland is happier (the people, not necessarily politicians who do not always have the people's wishes at the forefront). Many in Poland did not want that missile sheild (have you already forgotten the enormous thread on the topic here?) I think they might be breathing a sigh of relief.

People of Poland, I ask you: Are you happy if the missile sheild goes away?
derek trotter 10 | 203  
12 Apr 2009 /  #295
Poland sold for nothing
When I saw this crap first time I thought it must be one huge mocking bit of us the Poles, but after a while I went to the conclusion that somebody have to really think in that way about Poland. But why ???

Hmm...
shopgirl 6 | 928  
12 Apr 2009 /  #296
I would think that Poland is happier (the people, not necessarily politicians who do not always have the people's wishes at the forfront). Many in Poland did not want that missile sheild (have you already forgotten the enormous thread on the topic here?) I think they might be breathing a sigh of relief.

People of Poland, I ask you: Are you happy if the missile sheild goes away?
Torq  
12 Apr 2009 /  #297
People of Poland, I ask you: Are you happy if the missile sheild goes away?

I hereby speak for the People of Poland:

We - the People of Poland (and I mean by that myself and my brother-in-law
who is visiting me for Easter) don't give a flying f**k about the missile shield.

We don't need it beacuse we believe that Wojsko Polskie is able to fight a succesful
defensive campaign against German or Russian invasion without this funny high-tech
gadget.

However, it would be nice to have it because, for some reason, it annoys Russians
and it's always good fun to annoy them (it's kinda our national hobby :-))...

...but as I said before: we don't need it, it's not for our defence and we can
always think of some other creative way of annoying Russians, so Americans
can take their missile shield and stick it up their *%^$%

Signed:
People of Poland

LOL
shopgirl 6 | 928  
12 Apr 2009 /  #298
However, it would be nice to have it because, for some reason, it annoys Russiansand it's always good fun to annoy them (it's kinda our national hobby :-))...

Constantine......did you get this part that Torq said? hehe I kinda found it funny. Russia would like for Poland to be shaking in their shoes, but that's not what happened...at least from this person's point of view! :) Go Polska!
southern 75 | 7,096  
12 Apr 2009 /  #299
because, for some reason, it annoys Russians
and it's always good fun to annoy them

It's not always fun.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
13 Apr 2009 /  #300
You are dang annoying!
Wanna link?

I'm not opinionated i'm saying as it was.

Prussia during times of the deluge led some pretty masterfull diplomacy and as with most diplomacy it screwed Poland to which Prussia was a vasal therefore the Elector of Prussia was seen as a traitor.

German states sought Polish/Lithuanian cavalry as mercenaries since between 15 and 17 cent. Polish cavalry was arguably the best in the world and definitely superior to anything in Europe, Turkey or Russia, this coupled with then chauvinistic commonwealth nobility resulted in German militaries being seen as weak and inneficient and since stereotypes back then were as much fun as they're now soon all Germans were weak or traitorous.

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