Polish minority abroad and minorities in Poland

Whose the expert? Putin? :):):)

Your opinion is based on false conviction I am afraid.


Aaah, here I`ve got you! I know what you mean. Give up Polish aspirations and join Russia on the crusade against the West?
No, thanks. :):):)


The issue is very tricky. The Polish government are afraid to intervene too brutally on behalf of Polish minority in Lithuania so that Lithuanians won`t cry out loud that Polish nationalism comes back. They are sensitive to that, just like Poles are sensitive to German intrusions and interventions.

And Lithuanians are our allies - it is Polish prerogative to keep the Baltic states independent. If they aren`t, they will become Russian protectorate again and no resonable Pole wants that.

That is why Polish government isn`t so tough on Lithuanians who really have problems with sticking to agreements between our countries.

But at least Lithuanian Poles are able to organize themselves as they wish.

In Belarus they are denied even this right, Polish minority organization`s meetings are either dispersed or supervised by the police. That is why I said you are wrong that Poles have bigger problems in the Baltics.

" Europe, defend our rights ", " Conservatives , your behavior is not Christian" , "Stop discrimination against minorities " - with posters of such content picketed on Friday Lithuanian Poles in Vilnius in front of the Embassy of the Czech Republic , who presides in the first half of the EU.

"Once again, we want to draw attention to the fact that the European Union human rights of national minorities in Lithuania" - told PAP President of the Vilnius branch of the Union of Poles in Lithuania , the organizer of the picket , Alice Piotrowicz .

She pointed out that " paradoxically , Lithuania , after the accession to the EU started to restrict the rights of national minorities" .


As I've previously said. Both problems can be solved very quickly.


There are profits and loses from being part of every aliance. There is nothing worst than being bulwark of the west. Look on our european "parnters" in case of Nord Stream. Look on this US shield project. Poland will be sold in first critical situation.

It is not nice situation but Poland should see the reality and look for the safest solution for itself.

What is more some changes in Polish policy can bring some noticable profits like mentioned before situations of Polish miniority in Lithuania and Belarus.

How?

Why not solve them in the same way that solved the problem with the German minority in Stettin, Danzig, Stolp, Thorn, Breslau, etc, etc, etc.

In Lithuania ... like NATO in Kosovo ?

So you're saying we bomb Lithuania? I like it, we should target schools and kindergardens first, with napalm.

Just give people freedom. In region where Poles are in majority there should be kind of authonomy if Lithuanians are not able to respect Polish miniority.

To do it Poland should start close very close cooperation with Russia...

Napalming their kids would work too right?


So in regions where Gypsies are a majority there should be some kind of an authonomy if Poles are not able to respect the Roma minority?:)


To get authonomical communities in Lithuania?

Polish minority in Lithuania and Belarus? They are citizens of Lithuania and Belarus, while "our" politicians are supposed to represent interest of citizens of Poland.

If Poland would interfere then third states would see green light to interfere in Poland's internal affairs. Beside of that Russia would feel justified to interfere in all post-Soviet states.

I've worked with Russians from Lithuania and Gypsies from Slovakia. Almost all nice people, almost all hard-working people. Even when there are troubles at home, being in the EU can help, even if it's not the greatest solution. It can mean, for the Poles of Lithuania, that the two countries' governments are on the same path as eachother and on reasonably friendly terms. For the others I mentioned, the right to work and live in other countries can mean leaving behind many of the prejudices their own countries have against them. As I said, this is not a great solution - people should be able to live in the country of their birth without prejudice or persecution and having to leave is not the answer, although in individuals' cases, it may be an answer.

In your opinion the link proves the point that Poles in Lithuania are oppressed more than in Belarus. But the very first sentence suggests sth opposite: Europe, defend our rights, {...} such slogans were on banners carried by Lithuanian Poles in front of the Czech Republic`s embassy in the capital of Lithuania. ("Europo, obroń nasze prawa", "Konserwatyści, wasze zachowanie nie jest chrześcijańskie", "Stop dyskryminacji mniejszości" - z plakatami o takiej treści pikietowali w piątek litewscy Polacy w Wilnie przed gmachem ambasady Republiki Czeskiej, która przewodniczy w tym półroczu UE.)

The very fact that Poles in Lithuania organize protests in streets proves their plight is not so harsh as in Belarus.

What are Lithuanian Poles` grievances today?

1. Bilingual road signs. After a few years of their existence Lithuanians started removing them recently according to the new law which protects the Lithuanian language. The same with Polish surnames which must be spelled in Lithuanian.

2. There are some problems concerning Polish schools. Poles claim that the authorities are trying to suppress schooling in the Polish language by new laws which impose the same requirements for both Lithuanian and minority students in creating new classes. It sounds a bit vague, I don`t know what the situation has been so far...

3. Poles claim that the land owners who lost their property in Soviet times are not getting it back. The process of reprivatisation is delayed... In Wilno only 15% Polish owners received their property back.

What goes around comes around. Poles really shouldn't complain about pre-war property not being given back to the lawful owners until they get their own house in order.

Poles can complain about what want and fight for what they want to, they earned it and fought for it

Well, if they want to be hypocritical b*stards they can certainly complain about not getting their property back from the Lithuanians!

It could be tricky. How far back do you look? If Poles who were moved west from Poland's old territories in the east which are now in Belorus and Lithuania want to claim back their lost property, can Germans claim back property in western Poland?

To some extent it is correct thinking but not exactly. Why should Lithuanian Poles be held responsible for the native Polish government`s policies? :):):) I hope your intention isn`t to apply the rule of collective responsibility here?

And can the Polish Jews who fled the holocaust or the post-holocaust pogroms have their property back?

It is different. German property was taken over by the state in result of the war started by Germans, and the decree was meant as one of the forms of war reperations.

Soviets primitively grabbed everything for the communist state in the name of robbing people, that was illegal. :):)

If they have the title deeds ;)

First of all people who try to get back their properties are current Lithuania citizens. In regions without Polish miniority Lithuanian state gave back 99% of properties which have been confiscated by the communists.

Lithuanian citizens with Polich origin are discriminated and current Lithuanian government wants to make from them pariases. It is not story of Poles who were expeled to Poland after WWII... It is story of people who live in Lithuenia and don't have Polish citizenship ...


Yes but in Belarus they have such strange system, to be honest Poles in Belarus are not in worst situation than Berusians in this country. If we talk about different treatment of citizens ... unfortunately Lithuenia treates differently Polish speaking population. In Belarus all people have the same problems with regime.

Yes, of course. Jews who can prove their family once owned some property in Poland should be granted the right to have it back or at least compensation.

what kind of person one has to be to make such comment.
full of hate

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen Harry make one negative comment about Israel...

Come on, he's not Norman Finkelstein for crying out loud ;) ;)

I quite agree with you.

But I still remain cautious about this:


:):):)

Why? Because, as I told you , close cooperation with Russia means turning back to the West and that`s what most Poles don`t want. Is it so hard to understand that although Poland has always been a border country, on the crossroads of cultures, where the East meets the West, Poles in their majority feel Westerners, or at least the nation who belongs to the Western hemisphere????

Sorry, Salomon, if that disappointed you. As long as Russians view the West with hostility and suspicion, Poles will remain wary about Russia, because we are a bigger part of the Western culture than Eastern, if you want it or not.

Even if it is going to cost us. Poles have proven many times they don`t look at the cost in such matters. Such national trait. :):):) That is why your words below have no influence on me :):):)


The safest solution you advocate is becoming Russian satellite again. Never! :):):) I prefer to be golodupiec on the crossroads than a matroyoshka in the Russian shop! :):):)


Changes in policy are already visible. Polish technocrats who are at power now, disregarding Lithuanian strategic interests, are probably planning to sell Polish-owned Mozejki refinery in Lithuania to Russians. Money makes the world etc....

I disagree. Look on German argumentation when we talk for example about Nord Stream.

What do you mean by so called "West" ?


I am realy sory but PO is very popular, post-comunists are geting stronger. I am not so sure about Polish national traits you mentioned because PiS is losting its position...


Just look on Nord Stream ... If you want to be westerner ... start to use real politics...
Poland is bulwark of the west which will be sold in first bigger crisise. What is more Germany isn't western country like France, USA or UK. What has been proven many times before...

I'd say that Poland should be member of all EU NATO ect. but should always be closer in foreign policy to Russians than the Germans...

Before WWII Poland was much more "western" country than Soviet Union or Nazi Germany ... what doesn't change the fact that it was much better for Poland to open aliance with Soviets in 1939 instead of aliance with closer ideologicaly UK and France...

Might I suggest that you learn to read? Only last week on PF I described Israel as a country which I would never want to live in.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves, partial compensation is the only acceptable solution, i'd not have people booted from their homes for foreigners over any property no matter how much right they have to it (and very few can prove it) give 'em some symbolic compensation and thats that.

Salomon, what in hell are you talking about? Again freaking Russian propoganda about developed, culturaly rich Baltic states. You tell your friends to learn language of the country they live in like normal people all over the world do. Then you won't have your so-called "neo-nazi descrimination" ********. Respect the country where you come to live and don't teach others and you will have peace which you hate so much.

Nat, that's a childish prattle. If there was only the issue of a language, there wouldn't be any problem at all. Looks like the only criterion of lie for you is the adjective "Russian" before any idea. Go and see firsthand before teach others bs. Again I'm not saying that RusGov is playing fair game but the Poles and the Russians are not doing thoroughly well over there.


Pawy I guess you're overestimating your Polish role and obviously underestimating Lithuanins. I think they know themselves what to do. If not, the EU will show them.

:))

What's happening to Poles in Belorussia? I'm really interested.

Salomon, given that "Russians have inferiority complex" (all rights reserved by Salomon), I wouldn't deal with them at any span of activity or otherwise you could end up with those who indeed had it (Stalin or Lenin). Do you need it? Take care.