Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism

Yes, I really need to look beyond films like the Guns of Navarone and Brigge on the River Kwai for background on WW2...

I was just being sarcastic about the large population of Turks in present day Germany.

And before some yahoo jumps in saying Hitler just wanted to right the wrongs of the Versaille Treaty, he talks about that in Mein Kampf too. He says nonsense. We the super-race need real Leben, lebensraum and that has to be taken by the sword.

I would agree with you that, in general, Jews have better opportunities than Poles in the English language media to present their arguments. I don't agree that Jews repeatedly write lies about Poles, it is a fringe element, as are active Polish anti-Semites. I read a number of international newspapers each day and I rarely come across anti-Polish op-eds. With regards to the use of anti-semite, I would, to an extent, agree, it is used to freely, however, I think that discussions about Jews in Poland do frequently drift into the anti-semtical. Where it is overused is in defence of legitimate criticisms of Israel as a nation state . Criticising Israel does not automatically make someone an anti-semite.


You've rattled through a number of points there, so let me try and touch on all of them separately.

1. I disagree that most Jews aren't aware of the scale of Jewish collaboration. Non-Jews, at least outside the countries that were occupied, have less knowledge and education on this subject.

2. You say that Jewish collaboration was devastating for the Jewish community. Two points here; most Jews did not collaborate, they were not given the opportunity to. Secondly, it is important to remember that what happened to the Jews would have happened with or without their collaboration. Collaboration by both Poles and Jews existed because of German Nazi actions.

3. Most of the statements you have made above, not all, could change out Jew for Pole and still be valid.

As I've mentioned before, collaboration, particularly Jewish collaboration, is an extremely complex and nuanced subject. It's important not to paint it as black and white. Some of the books Sjam recommended on the subject are well worth a read. I haven't read them all, but I have read and would recommend.


Czerniakow's diary is particularly instructive. I would also add Judenrat by Issiah Trunk and Jacob Robinson, this is a dispassionate and exhaustive investigation into Judenrat's and all its various arms, all over Poland.

Only the Polish antisemites and anyone who thinks 5,000-15,000 Polish Jews have control over the education policy of 40,000,000 Polish Catholics ???

By the sound of it I'm not the only one that needs treatment ;-))


Based on what evidence? Or is this more of the Jews control the media rubbish?


Apart from your Ministry of Education it seems? Do you not elect your government or is it a dictatorship run by Polish Jews ;-))) LOL indeed!


So the Polish government needs propaganda to somehow convince world opinion (or is it just Jewish world opinion) that Poland isn't antisemitic? Strange that don't you think?

Not at all. More Jews are native speakers of English and naturally have a better chance to put their ideas and beliefs into print.

It is always a positive step when one recognizes the need for treatment. I wish you luck in your recovery.


You can't be that naive to think that just because a certain government is elected it does the will of the people. If you ask the people of Poland if their kids need anti-semitism education they would stare at you in disbelief.

We do have some communists very involved in the "struggle" however.

"Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director and a Holocaust survivor born in Poland, cited Kwasniewski's "inspired leadership" in promoting Holocaust education and his "strong, unequivocal denunciation of anti-Semitism" among Poles."

That was in 2005. Jump to 2008:

From Kwasniewski's website:

"Media have informed about the establishment by the European Jewish Congress of the European Council for Tolerance, which you are heading. What will the Council deal with?"

"I can assure you that the Council will have a lot to do also in Poland. There is no doubt that racism and anti-Semitism are the phenomena present in the Polish society. "

"Aren't you afraid of your compatriots' reaction that you accepted the "job" from the Jews? It can become some sort of a "problem" in a moment?

I do not regard myself as an excessively timid person or one always drifting with the current. I treat entrusting me with chairmanship as a great honour and not a problem."

A little clearer for you?

Here is that drunken communist at Katyn:

youtube.com/watch?v=d0S41AGoeYw

I assure you that you have no chance in understanding Polish politics, especially from distant England. Your understanding of Polish history is just as dismal. Case in point: you have asked me repeatedly why the stalinist prosecutors, judges, and other henchmen are living freely in Poland. Impress me and give your opinion as to why.

No. Enlighten me please.


Just type "Polish anti-semitism", "Polish collaboration", "Polish fscists" etc. into google and investigate the links. Among tones of racist shi*t wrote by some mad "rabbies" and other freaks, you can also find plenty of openly Polonophobic stuff coming from major Jewish NGOs, media and even Israeli public institutions.


That's true but in fact Poles (except individuals on internet forums) don't really want to present their arguments. That's because Polish "elites" since at least late 80's have been using a kind of "let's be nice to them, so they will be nice to us" strategy, which completely failed.


Of course not. Poland is a country with one of the lowest level of antisemitic violence in Europe, probably the most pro-Israeli government policy and media coverege in Europe, so global Jewery is very grateful and is spreading positive image of Poland as much as It can. Oy !

Poles put facts into print not ideas or beliefs

I think Sjam`s publishing a book about Cichociemni,those were real people not some crazy made up idea just to earn money

I have 30 books in production or being translated from Polish into English actually but not all about cichociemni but all Polish experience of WWII ;-))

Complaining about the Jewish media, the Jewish this and that is the classic whinge of antisemites who do in fact need a greater awareness of anti semitic issues. QED. Now go take your sheepdog's dick out of your mouth and think about it again.

:)

Great :)

With respect I don't buy this one bit!

If you really want to do something you find a way make it happen—there is always an excuse to do nothing.
There are excellent translators in Poland so there is no excuse really. But commercial publishers won't print anything they can't turn a profit on so there is the internet for this stuff.

They just don't talk about it outside the Jewish community. They prefer to talk about Polish collaboration. Yes, I know.


Yes, they get to hear the mantra about "Polish concentration camps."


I don't say; the Jewish chroniclers say this in the memoirs that you think I haven't read. Bits of those memoirs are offered in the theatre of Holocaust Education but not the parts that show thew real picture of Jewish collaboration.


Small amount just like a small amount of Poles.


It is also important to remember that they didn't resist and hoped to sit out the war cooperating with the Germans. The deportations didn't start till 1942 and the Uprising in the Ghetto was in 1943 after 300,000 or so were sent o death with the help of the Jewish police not the Polish one.

Rigelblum wrote:

"Why didn’t we resist when they began to resettle 300,000 Jews from Warsaw? Why did we allow ourselves to be led like sheep to the slaughter? Why did everything come so easy to the enemy? Why didn’t the hangmen suffer a single casualty? Why could 50 S.S. men (some people say even fewer), with the help of a division of some 200 Ukrainian guards and an equal number of Letts [Latvians], carry the operation out so smoothly?"

I thought you might mention Shahak when we were talking about criticism. He wrote:

"In the Warsaw ghetto, even during the period of the first massive extermination (June to October 1942), one saw almost no German soldiers. Nearly all the work of administration, and later the work of transporting hundreds of thousands of Jews to their deaths, was carried out by Jewish collaborators. Before the outbreak of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (the planning of which only started after the extermination of the majority of Jews in Warsaw), the Jewish underground killed, with perfect justification, every Jewish collaborator they could find. If they had not done so the Uprising could never have started. The majority of the population of the Ghetto hated the collaborators far more than the German Nazis. Every Jewish child was taught, and this saved the lives of some of them “if you enter a square from which there are three exits, one guarded by a German SS man, one by a Ukrainian and one by a Jewish policeman, then you should first try to pass the German, and then maybe the Ukrainian, but never the Jew.”


The people in the ghetto weren't so understanding as you are. The Polish underground army wasn't either. They passed death sentences against collaborators.


Thank you. I have read most of them and some of the lesser know memoirs and archive documents.


I find his diary dry and he fails to record some of the important events involving himself.

True they never say anything about how they collabrated

I admit that Poles collabrated by working with the ``Blue Police`` most of the Blue Police was in the AK,disobeyed german orders.The force was made up of Police officers from pre-war Poland if they choose not to join they would face death.

He also wrote:

Sjam,

What does Ringelblum say about the Jewish Police? I know you want to be objective. I'm looking forward to your research. For that matter, what do other memoirs say about the Blue Police vs the Jewish Police. You can even start a new thread so we can have some room.

Would that not be Anti-Semitic?

What Hitler wanted to do in Mein Kampf and what he COULD do especially at the begining of the war was worlds apart, he needed help from other nations he knew he couldn't fight everyone by himself at once, in his war against the Soviet Union millions of German troops plus hundreds of thosands of Hungarians, Romanians, and Italians was still not enough. He did want Poland with Germany, he knew many Poles had pure Nordic blood and the rest a mix of Nordic Alpine and Mongol, with the Nordic features dominant. That is why Germans kidnapped 200,000 Polish children for Germanization, to purify German blood that "suffered" through mixing with Alpines. Hardly any of these kids were of German decent, they were ethnic Polish and he knew it. And i learned this through reading countless books from various authors not from Stormfront, i'm not pro-German i'm pro-Polish, i'm just tellin' the truth, nothing else. Hermann Goring second from left and other Nazis atending Pilsudskis funeral. Polish girl for Germanization.

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Who was it that once said, "I'm not anti-Semitic, I just hate the Jews"?

It'd be interesting to meet some Jewish people in real life, see how they are.

How do you define a Jew?

With difficulty, and you? ;)

It's just that a number of people make sweeping generalisations about 'the Jews', and I always wonder who they are incorporating...

My great-gandfather was a Polish Jew (father's, fathers, father). I therefore have a "Jewish name" and "Jewish blood", but I don't consider myself Jewish in the slightest, just English/British.

One of my best friends is half-Polish Jewish (Mother's side, both his grand-parents survived Aushwitz), half Irish, but he is considers himself a Brit. He has indulged in some Jewish tradition (as much as Irish tradition), but he is not religious.

Essentially is it religious/ethnic/cultural/political?

Well, it needn't be exclusively one. Ethnic perhaps more.

You should read this piece, very helpful! :)))

Jak poznać Żyda?
solowiecki.boom.ru/jak_rozpoznac_zyda.html

LOL, I can understand most of it. Very true in many parts :)

Your right it is helpful. Klimon Solowiecki's web-site is a perfect example of Polish anti-semitism at work. IMO Poland's Ministry of Education should use Solowiecki's web-site and those like Polonica.net (which has also been quoted from on PF) as examples of how Polish antisemites are antiPolish in its new school curriculum set up to curb antisemitism in Poland.

I was happy to see Poland speaking out on this movie.



guardian.co.uk/film/2009/mar/05/defiance-film-poland

quite

but just like the little boy who cried wolf

people tend not to take much notice when the polish moan

oh well

And that it is reported in the Jewish controlled western media... will wonders never cease :-)))

Who on PF said Poles couldn't get their views into the western media???

And just think how good it would be to make a film about the life and death of Captain Witold Pilecki-a true hero of Poland.