Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / News  % width 138

Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism


1jola 14 | 1,879  
7 Mar 2009 /  #61
These are both lazy lies.

Are they? If you find disagreement with Encylopedia Judaica please write them.





It isn't something we learn at Church, as you suggested. It was learned when patriots were arrested, tortured, and murdered in secret. Spare me the bullshit. Jews are well represented among the executioners although they were supposedly holocausted.

No I don't, I mean mass collaboration, in Lithuania and Ukraine specifically.

At the moment I don't care what Jews say about them; I care that they call Poles collaborators in mainstream press, yet they make excuses for their own collaboration like:

I think collaboration is an extremely complex subject and an area that has to be trodden on carefully

They seem to apply that only to themselves. To Poles they are quite comfortable to just smear.

And, to speak straight to your point about lack of examination of Jewish collaboration with Germans in World War Two, you're incorrect. There has been much work and introspection on this subject by Jewish historians.

You and I and three other persons read books written by historians. The rest gets their history lesson from movies, bullshit articles in the dumbdowned press, and docudramas. How else do these opinions arise:

lipstadt.blogspot.com/2007/10/enduring-myth-poles-were-worse-than.html

Last week I was in Poland. While there I kept stressing to the people with whom I was travelling that it is wrong to depict Poland as a place of unending antisemitism or to fall prey to the absurd but, nonetheless, oft-heard comment made by Jews who visit the place, "The Poles were worse than the Nazis."

Many people, Jews primarily among them, believe the balderdash that the Germans put the death camps in Poland because the Poles would be happy to see the Jews killed. They ignore the fact that to the Germans Auschwitz was German territory and was to be the site of a major German settlement.

One person, who is well-informed and well read, found this notion of Polish non-complicity hard to grasp. He kept trying to find links:

Weren't they guards at Auschwitz? No, I said.

Well weren't they part of the Einsatzgruppen, the mobile killing units?

People get this "knowledge" from history books?

I'm happy to point you to valid books and papers.

Please do. Then we can discuss how the Jewish writers were roasted by the Jewish community for writing about taboo subjects ie. Jewish Nazi collaboration.

Better yet, point me to where this is talked about in the mainstream media. Sjam, when asked the same question could only dig up a 1987 New York times article about a Jewish kapo. You seem a lot smarter than he, so we'll see.

Well it was you that stated it 'It was similar in all the satellite states' and low and behold I prove in just one tiny example this is not true...

Ahha, you have no doubt won that argument then. Sit back and have a beer now. I will be more careful when talking to pedantic you.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
7 Mar 2009 /  #62
True enough, but HatefullBunch397 was telling how she sometimes felt when in school because of her Polish name, especially with a German student who treated her unfairly. Not everyone has that same experience, so maybe it helps to know that you have to take each person on an individual basis.

That was one example, but he wasn't the only one who acted stupid. I'm sure I retaliated against them (if they said something to me I said something similar back) although, I admit the guy with German parents was quiet and more polite than others. The only thing that stands out about him is the way he moved his desk back and at the time I was so surprised I didn't know what to think or react. But anyway he is just one example. My experience has been one of general anti polonism and to be fair, others were worse than the German guy who was quiet but not antagonistic.

I am not going to gloss over them though. They were anti polish, which in this case, anti me because I was the only polish one there. They were pretty much white anglo saxon protestant types.

And another thing, they were not just anti polish, but pretty much anti everything that's not white anglo saxon protestants. Typical idiot rednecks, imo.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
7 Mar 2009 /  #63
Junior high stories are nice and I feel for you that boys are not falling over you, but we are trying to have an adult discussion here. Start a thread somewhere else about personal problems.

I've noticed you keep writing German with a capital G, yet Polish with a small p. No need to answer and this thread is not about you. Be nice and stop whining that nobody likes you. We like you.
Peter_H 3 | 47  
7 Mar 2009 /  #64
People get this "knowledge" from history books?

No, people don't get this from history books. At least not history books based on research and facts. In fact, people get this rubbish from similar propaganda pieces to those you posted above. I've seen that first You Tube clip presented as evidence several times, on this forum and elsewhere. I'm not going to deconstruct this movie second by second, the Hitchcockian style music played in the back ground should be enough to clue you in that this isn't a serious piece of historical work. There are many, many historical inaccuracies in this film. It juxtaposes specific extracts from the Encylopedia Judaica and then makes wildly exaggerated claims based on this. For someone who claims to base their opinions on history books, as per

You and I and three other persons read books written by historians. The rest gets their history lesson from movies, bullshit articles in the dumbdowned press, and docudramas. How else do these opinions arise:

you can't really believe the rubbish in this film. If you really and truly believe this is the work of honest historians, and I'm not sure you do, I will point out just a couple of the many problems with it.

Are they? If you find disagreement with Encylopedia Judaica please write them.

Yes, they are lies. I find nothing here that proves that the majority of the post-war security services in Poland were Jewish, nor that the majority of the Soviet leadership was Jewish. These are lies. I have presented irrefutable proof of this. I don't see how you can continue to defend this stance when all the weight of evidence is against it.

I have already stated that I find this disgraceful, in fact I brought the issue up. I'm not sure what else there is to debate or say about it.

I will dig out some books and names that may interest you regarding Jewish discussion about Jewish collaboration during the holocaust.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
7 Mar 2009 /  #65
Junior high stories are nice and I feel for you that boys are not falling over you, but we are trying to have an adult discussion here.

It's a comment on anti polonism and it has nothing to do with a specific gender. It's not about personal problems, it's about anti polonism. This is a serious issue for some of us.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,379  
7 Mar 2009 /  #66
my emphasis

The topic is based on: Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism

my emphasis
sjam 2 | 541  
7 Mar 2009 /  #67
Ahha, you have no doubt won that argument then. Sit back and have a beer now. I will be more careful when talking to pedantic you.

Indeed and will I drink my warm milk with a warm glow :-))

I've seen that first You Tube clip presented as evidence several times, on this forum and elsewhere.

Be serious—You Tube clips as evidence? Presenting these home-spun cut and paste clips as evidence is almost as dumb as those that believe them to be evidence?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
7 Mar 2009 /  #68
Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism

I find it ironic that they are saying they must fight anti-Semitism in a country that just put a Jewish Polish Museum. I guess I would have to ask the ones in Poland if they feel the problem is so out of control that the children should have this included in their schools? Personally I think teaching our children compassion for all others (leaving out Jewish) would be more helpful. I do know that any group can claim anti actions that were directed toward them so IMO we have to stop falling in this guilt trap from Holocaust. In the long run it may be doing them a favor.
sjam 2 | 541  
7 Mar 2009 /  #69
Back to the topic. Why would Polish Ministry of Eduction feel the need to "introduce new teaching materials for Poland's middle schools on Thursday in an effort to combat anti-Semitism?" if anti-Semitism in Poland was not such an issue? Is this initiative a vote winner in Poland? Is there much debate in Poland about whether the Polish Ministry of Eduction should be wasting public resources on something that isn't needed?
1jola 14 | 1,879  
7 Mar 2009 /  #70
you can't really believe the rubbish in this film.

I have presented irrefutable proof

How can I refute something irrefutable? That does end conversation.

I have already stated that I find this disgraceful, in fact I brought the issue up.

You did and no argument there.

I'm not sure what else there is to debate or say about it.

Poles do not write editorials in major English speaking papers accusing Jews of communist crimes. Jews write repeatadly lies about Poles with totat impunity. Any atempt to set he record straight meets with further accusations of antisemitism. That is their only weapon - to call someone an antisemite. There is no debate, it is a dirty trick that people are fed up with. Jews thus create resentment toward Jews.

I will dig out some books and names that may interest you regarding Jewish discussion about Jewish collaboration during the holocaust.

Thank you, I will gladly read them. You will agree that most Jews, or non-Jews have no idea of the extent of Jewish collaboration. It wasn't negligible and it was devastating to the Jewish community much more than any Polish collaboration. It is a dirty little secret that is kept away from the public view to maitain the myth of eternal victims. If you can find information on a Polish network of Gestapo agents as large as a Jewish Gestapo agents in Poland, please enlighten me. I don't want to hear that they wanted to survive; everyone wanted that. Jews ran the 400,000 member ghetto, Jews worked hard for the Reich, Jewish leaders were against resistance, Jews twarthed the efforts of a small number of Jews who did resist, Jews robbed other Jews, Jews turned in other Jews in hiding (here I will agree that there were bastard Poles too), and Jews basically loaded the trains heading for death. Tragedy all around, but today's discussion and brainwashing is how evil the Poles were and didn't help the Jews.

Jews should look in the mirror with shame first and than point fingers.

I find it ironic that they are saying they must fight anti-Semitism in a country

Anti-semitism, pogroms, holocaust. Now just keep repeating it. Good girl.

Why would Polish Ministry of Eduction feel the need to "introduce new teaching materials for Poland's middle schools on Thursday in an effort to combat anti-Semitism?" if anti-Semitism in Poland was not such an issue?

It is not an issue. The Jews force it on everyone. This in addition to the Holocaust studies. Notice there are no special classes in the systematic communist genocide. Everything must revolve around Jews. If you deny the Holocaust you will go to prison in Europe; you are free to deny communist crimes, and they were far greater than the Holocaust. Why?
sjam 2 | 541  
7 Mar 2009 /  #71
The Jews force it on everyone.

Yet there are only somewhere between 5,000 and 15,000 Jews in Poland out of a total population of circa 40,000,000!

Jesus! So let me get this right. By saying "the Jews force it on everyone" you are actually implying that Polish non-Jews are so incapable of anything they let a group of maybe as few as 5,000 rule the education policy of a population of 40,000,000—this is a surprise to me but I will take your word for it.

Thank you, I will gladly read them. You will agree that most Jews, or non-Jews have no idea of the extent of Jewish collaboration.

This is one site I believe you yourself previously used as reference to corrupt Jewish Ghetto Police

holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/orderpolice.html

which is supported by Yad Vashem and USHMM

and this website uses the sources below for reference to the Jewish Ghetto Police web-page which talks about the corruption of some of the Ghetto Police I would say they were all Jewish original sources:

The Jews of Warsaw 1939 -1943 by Yisrael Gutman, published by The Harvester Press Brighton 1982
In the Warsaw Ghetto by Stanislaw Adler, published by Yad Vashem 1982
Abraham Lewin - A Cup of Tears, published by Fontana Collins 1988
The Warsaw Diary of Adam Czerniakow, published by Elephant Paperbacks, Chicago 1999.
The Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust
Holocaust Historical Society
Ghetto Fighters House
The Wiener Library

I think it would be fair to say that if it were not for Jewish Holocaust memoirists recording the actions of Jewish ghetto police the world would not know about them in the first place-good or bad.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
7 Mar 2009 /  #72
You're either a Jew with Polish citizenship or a Pole with Jewish ancestry, you cannot be a Jew and a Pole at the same time, luckily knowing our right wingers these books wont last more than a year or two:)

What?...Are the Poles still 'persecuting' Jews, building concentration camps for them?...Ha!...Now, why not have text books on 'Anti-Polonism' or 'Anti-Celtism' or 'Anti-Italoism'?...And 95% of Jews are not even Semites!...But can a Jew be a Pole at the same time?...Well, I would say yes, you could have a Jewish Pole, one who spoke Polish, was assimilated into Polish culture...Now that Europe is becoming a completely secular and consumerist society, cultural distinctions are disappearing, or that's what the EU would hope...But, certainly, there are historical problems...Also, be very careful of 'dual citizenship' Poland & Israel...This has been a big problem in the US, with Israeli spying, influence peddling and the theft of huge sums of money from American banks.

They seem to apply that only to themselves. To Poles they are quite comfortable to just smear

Jola, you 'vicious anti-semite'...You criticize the morality and the fairness of the Jewish people?
pawian 221 | 23,970  
7 Mar 2009 /  #73
I find it ironic that they are saying they must fight anti-Semitism in a country that just put a Jewish Polish Museum.

Unfortunately, yes - this country needs such education. The picture I took a few days ago. Don`t look at the date print - I hadn`t set it properly.
SeanBM 35 | 5,806  
7 Mar 2009 /  #74
Unfortunately, yes - this country needs such education.

I just drove through Krakow and saw some badly written graffiti about Wisła (football teams) and kill the Jews.
pawian 221 | 23,970  
7 Mar 2009 /  #75
Yes, those soccer fans of rival teams are not sparing each other.:):) One team calls the other Jews and it is considered an insult.
SeanBM 35 | 5,806  
7 Mar 2009 /  #76
One team calls the other Jews and it is considered an insult.

I remember someone posting a youtube link about "Cracovia" football fan club (hooligans) associating themselves as Jews.
And now the rival team "Wisła" are saying bad things about Jews.
It is unclear to me if they mean only the other team or not.
That St. David's star crossed out is becoming common enough.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
7 Mar 2009 /  #77
That St. David's star crossed out is becoming common enough.

St. David's star?..I never heard of this...Where is it called this?
SeanBM 35 | 5,806  
7 Mar 2009 /  #78
Star of David.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
8 Mar 2009 /  #79
Jola, you 'vicious anti-semite'...You criticize the morality and the fairness of the Jewish people?

I haven't touched Judaism at all. And I was so innocent before LF.

Unfortunately, yes - this country needs such education. The picture I took

Football "fans" don't pay attention to education. You will find silly graffitti in every country including Israel. Should the whole world have anti-semitism education? Years of holocaust classses haven't made people more sensitive to genocide going on in front of our eyes in Africa.

Jesus! So let me get this right. By saying "the Jews force it on everyone" you are actually implying that Polish non-Jews are so incapable of anything they let a group of maybe as few as 5,000 rule the education policy of a population of 40,000,000—this is a surprise to me but I will take your word for it.

Who is initiating it then and why? Because there is some graffitti?
PennBoy 76 | 2,432  
8 Mar 2009 /  #80
Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism

why would they wanna do that when most Poles don't share their views, i'm guessing it's the Jews in Polish government that started this. Hmm, Hitler wanted Poland to join Germany in conquering Europe, he had alot of respect for Marshal Pilsudski and thought of him as a brilliant tactician, all he wanted was the Polish coridor to link up East Prussia with the rest of Germany, when Pilsudski died in 1935 that was the last time Adolf went to church. New government was anti-german so those plans had to be canceled.





joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
8 Mar 2009 /  #81
Yes, but not just Jews, but non-Jews who buy into the 'agenda' for various reasons...Mostly because 'you move up the ladder' by following the agenda...Big problem with Hitler, though: He was an 'ideological fanatic', inflexible, and considered himself 'a man of destiny'...Well, he was, but because he put himself 'above God' so to speak, he thought he could control everything...No man can...And, 'men of destiny' often leave a river of blood in their wake...But yes, Hitler respected Pilsudski.

Also, Hitler got 'bad advice'..Too many 'yes men' around...It always happens with a dictator...Pilsudski had no such ambitions...He just wanted a free Poland.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
8 Mar 2009 /  #82
Hmm, Hitler wanted Poland to join Germany in conquering Europe,

all he wanted was the Polish coridor to link up East Prussia with the rest of Germany

Let me guess, you learned that by reading Stormfront. Only complete idiots believe these lies. You have to go back to Mein Kampf to see what Hitler wanted. Written in 1924, it spells out Hitler's vision for the Thousand Year Reich. I know that neo-Nazis don't actually read Mein Kampf, but rather let some of their "leaders" tell them what Hitler wanted. Think, genius, if Hitler only wanted the coridor, then why did he invade Austria, Czechoslovakia, and all of Poland. Here is all he wanted:

"We National Socialists have to go still further. The right to territory may become a duty when a great nation seems destined to go under unless its territory be extended. And that is particularly true when the nation in question is not some little group of negro people but the Germanic mother of all the life which has given cultural shape to the modern world. Germany will either become a World Power or will not continue to exist at all. But in order to become a World Power it needs that territorial magnitude which gives it the necessary importance to-day andassures the existence of its citizens.

Therefore we National Socialists have purposely drawn a line through the line of conduct followed by pre-War Germany in foreign policy We put an end to the perpetual Germanic march towards the South and West of Europe and turn our eyes towards the lands of the East. We finally put a stopto the colonial and trade policy of pre-War times and pass over to the territorial policy of the future.

But when we speak of new territory in Europe to-day we must principally
think of Russia and the border States subject to her.

Destiny itself seems to wish to point out the way for us here."


Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf 1924

Pictures of Hitler with children??? You're on a wrong forum, weirdo.
sjam 2 | 541  
8 Mar 2009 /  #83
Come on!
Well thank God I'm only half-Polish then at least the English half of me isn't stupid enough to believe that 5,000 Polish Jews are now controlling the education policy of a country of over 40,000,000 :-))))
1jola 14 | 1,879  
8 Mar 2009 /  #84
Are the 5,000 Jews somehow discriminated against that calls for special anti-semitism education?

Well thank God I'm only half-Polish then at least the English half of me isn't stupid enough

The Polish are stupid? Split personality problem is treatable though.
MrBubbles 10 | 613  
8 Mar 2009 /  #85
Think, genius, if Hitler only wanted the coridor, then why did he invade Austria, Czechoslovakia, and all of Poland.

I was wondering about this. I suppose at the time, Germany felt they were being encircled by other allied / neutral powers - England, France, Poland, Scandinavia - and so Hitler wanted to move in to Czech. Austria etc to secure Germany and open routes to Italy and the Med.

i'm guessing it's the Jews in Polish government that started this

The Nazis hated Poles. Just learn to live with it.
SeanBM 35 | 5,806  
8 Mar 2009 /  #86
A little Piece of peace. To Be or Not to Be, That is the Question


Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149  
8 Mar 2009 /  #87
Back to the topic. Why would Polish Ministry of Eduction feel the need to "introduce new teaching materials for Poland's middle schools on Thursday in an effort to combat anti-Semitism?" if anti-Semitism in Poland was not such an issue?

LOL ! You just don't get It, do you ? Nobody here feels any need for that stuff. The ministry agree with that hoping that such things will make the Jewish media, NGO's etc. call us "anti-semitic" a bit less often. But of course It's not that easy and they will only use It exactly the way you did -> "look, so anti-semitism must be a huge problem there ! Oy !", a few hundred grand in pockets of "scholars" of certain origin for preapering these super duper "teaching materials" just being a small additional benefit.

Well thank God I'm only half-Polish then at least the English half of me isn't stupid enough to believe that 5,000 Polish Jews are now controlling the education policy of a country of over 40,000,000 :-))))

Thank God that most probably think you are full-English... And such things have hardly anything to do with Polish Jews, so spare us stupid jokes.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
8 Mar 2009 /  #88
so Hitler wanted to move in to Czech. Austria etc to secure Germany and open routes to Italy and the Med.

He moved on Austria to consolidate the German people. The rest was conquest that he felt the super-race deserved. He talks about this in Mein Kampf Volume II Ch.14.

" Without respect for 'tradition,' and without any preconceived
notions, the movement must find the courage to organize our national
forces and set them on the path which will lead them away from that
territorial restriction which is the bane of our national life to-day,
and win new territory for them."


He rambles sensesly a lot but his main point is:

"Only a sufficiently large space on this earth can assure the independent
existence of a people."


So, we need Lebensraum. We also need...

"Thus the German nation could assure its own future only by being a World
Power."


...to be a super-power. One more time:

"Without respect for 'tradition,' and without any preconceived
notions, the movement must find the courage to organize our national
forces and set them on the path which will lead them away from that
territorial restriction which is the bane of our national life to-day,
and win new territory for them."


He goes on to alliances and I like this part:

"Therefore the fact of forming an alliance with Russia would be the
signal for a new war. And the result of that would be the end of
Germany."


The idiot corporal predicted his own demise.

The ministry agree with that hoping that such things will make the Jewish media, NGO's etc. call us "anti-semitic" a bit less often.

lol
MrBubbles 10 | 613  
8 Mar 2009 /  #89
A little Piece of peace. To Be or Not to Be, That is the Question

Heh! Good one! Although Germany only showed an interest in places like Turkey after WW2 actually began and they probably would have been seen as valid strategic targets for their war effort rather than simply steps to world domination. I really must read up a little more on this sometime.

He talks about this in Mein Kampf Volume II Ch.14.

Your knowledge of Mein Kamp is impressive. Did you write this from memory? No matter! I see that Hitler had territorial ambitions, and that he wanted Germany to become a world power but there is a difference between a world power and dominating the world. Germany was until recently a very powerful exporting nation but it didn't need to occupy half the world to do it.

make the Jewish media, NGO's etc. call us "anti-semitic" a bit less often

Ha ha. You probably don't see the irony in what you've just written here
1jola 14 | 1,879  
8 Mar 2009 /  #90
Germany only showed an interest in places like Turkey after WW2

It looks like Turkey came to them though.

Archives - 2005-2009 / News / Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-SemitismArchived