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BRAIN DRAIN ON POLAND


Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149  
26 Nov 2006 /  #31
it is annoying to find so many polish people abroad ( they are usually not "smart" no education some of them don't know the language of the country they're in, bad behaviour sometimes)and they are all after the money educated or not,doing the simplest jobs mainly

There are "lower class" people in every nation and It's better that they are there (and often send money to PL) than sit here on welfer.

As for the brain drain - I think it is a disaster. As a journalist, I speak to lots of Polish people and the ones that will not return are the youngest, best educated and enterpreneurial people.

I can't agree with that. First of all the best educated people can make really good money in Poland, so usually they don't leave and no matter what they say I think that most of those, who left would come back immidietly If they could make here similar money.

Grzegorz,

When in Poland they are potential high earners. Doctors, Dentists etc.

When in the UK they are low income workers. They take a change of direction workwise.

Is this what you mean ?

Well... I simply mean that most of them work for little money in comparision to average natives in these countries.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,379  
26 Nov 2006 /  #32
Grzegorz,

Thanks for your reply.
annamaria  
1 Dec 2006 /  #34
I can't agree with that. First of all the best educated people can make really good money in Poland, so usually they don't leave and no matter what they say I think that most of those, who left would come back immidietly If they could make here similar money.

Well, if they are lawyers, who passed their bar exam, they can usually make good money and wouldn't be able to practice law in the UK, so yes, they stay in Pl. But doctors, engineers - their skills are more easily transferable. There are graduates in biotechnology or robotics that I know, for whom there are simply no jobs in Poland - we are not exactly a scientific powerhouse, and are still unable to fully take advantage of home-grown scientists and innovators. Poland does not create enough positions in the commercial sector for highly specialized people.

Have a look at Polish -language message boards (Gazeta.pl) and see how many people declare that they do not intend to return to Poland. Once you have children in the UK, it becomes very difficult to transfer them into the Polish educational system, which is totally unprepared for such eventualities.

As I wrote, it is true that the majority of recent immigrants are not those that are the best educated. But quite a few are, and the ones still in Pl continue to be lured by better prospects in the UK - my friend, who is a scientist, has recently been headhunted and is moving here, my cousin, who is an engineer, etc, etc.
1234  
22 Dec 2006 /  #35
Unfortunately, I think Annamaria is right, Poland and its education system is creating highly skilled laborers for the UK. These individuals get a free education in Poland, but Poland gets nothing in return. If this situation does not change, I think the economy in Poland will get even worse.
Tom_Poland 1 | 17  
22 Dec 2006 /  #36
And what do I get from Poland 1234? I'm an English teacher here - working in a local secondary school. I started to work in September this year, so I'm a rookie intern belonging to the lowest echelon. My salary (full-time job excluding extra hours) is about 700 zl ( $230) on hand per month!! I'm in dilemma now, for I do like this job and working with my students, seeing their progress and so on (even when they drive me crazy sometimes), however, if I found a better job with higher salary on the local market, I wouldn't think much and go there. I have a family - two kids of whom I take care of - so I'm obligated to keep everything above the subsistence level. Isn't in sad that sometimes you have to resign from things you like like just because you're not appreciated enough?
Frank 23 | 1,183  
22 Dec 2006 /  #37
TP, this is after tax....700zl?

Isn't in sad that sometimes you have to resign from things you like like just because you're not appreciated enough?

Its not so much that...but thats all the market rate is.......if they were in short supply or very valuable to the economy then it would be higher, you have to remember public sector jobs in themselves do not directly contribute to the economy!

but Poland gets nothing in return

Wrong.......its people gain new experiences, skills, which they will eventuially bring back to Poland...never mind the re-patriation of a high proportion of wages......but it will take a little while to really impact.
Tom_Poland 1 | 17  
22 Dec 2006 /  #38
TP, this is after tax....700zl?

Yes Frank. To be more specific - the gross profit is 998zl (712zl on hand).
1234  
24 Dec 2006 /  #39
I understand your dilemma Tom_Poland. I am not saying you should not leave. I am just saying that the Brain Drain is a huge problem.

The English complain about the Poles, but the english politicians know what they are doing. Young, motivated, and educated workers are coming to England at Poland's expense. What a great deal!

Hopefully things will change... We shall see. I would rather have the Polish stay in Poland and have great jobs.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
27 Dec 2006 /  #40
Hopefully things will change... We shall see. I would rather have the Polish stay in Poland and have great jobs.

I just have read that about 20 % of polish immigrants in the UK declared that they will come back one day to their homeland. 14% say that they certainly won't return, and the rest is still not sure what they will eventually do. What would be the end result of this "Drang nach westen" nobody can foresee, but one thing is certain, nature hates empty spaces, and if poles won't come back they will be filled with immigrants from other countries, most likely Ukrainians, Belorussians, Turks(!),etc and when they do that... I will find myself a Ukrainian/Belorussian/Turkish/etc message board and slagg off those bloody carpet peddlers for undercutting our wages and tell them to go fu****back to their smelly **** hole homes! Revenge at last!! Buahahahahha.....:)
OP Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
27 Dec 2006 /  #41
I will find myself a Ukrainian/Belorussian/Turkish/etc message board and slagg off those bloody carpet peddlers for undercutting our wages and tell them to go fu****back to their smelly **** hole homes! Revenge at last!! Buahahahahha.....

thats bloody brilliant...love it!!:)
skillipedia  
28 Dec 2006 /  #42
I am from B'ham, UK and I see many Polish working hard to save money just to go back to Poland to have easier life. Life in England is rubbish and only those who came from very poor countries such as India and Pakistan choose to settle in the UK.

Few Polish will stay in the UK IF they manage to make few thousands of £
Moralny 1 | 60  
28 Dec 2006 /  #43
I just have read that about 20 % of polish immigrants in the UK declared that they will come back one day to their homeland. 14% say that they certainly won't return, and the rest is still not sure what they will eventually do.

And You have read it in Daily Mail probably. I have about 10 friends warking abroad as I know except one who is married everybody want to return in (few) (months),year(s). But this 'drach nach west' really piss me off. Poles should building their country not England, Irland etc.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
28 Dec 2006 /  #44
Stats for your consumption.......

Of every 100 Irish people who emigrated to the USA only 6 ever returned to live again in Ireland.

Of every 100 Italian people who emigrated to the USA 56 returned to live again in Italy!!!!!!!

Why the difference?

Each nations experiences are different at different times.......so will be the Polish experience!

Poles should building their country not England, Irland etc.

Ideally yes.......but your country does not yet have the money, drive, knowledge of how to do this...............Ireland didnt til the early nineties...........now look at them!!!!
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
30 Dec 2006 /  #45
And You have read it in Daily Mail probably. I have about 10 friends warking abroad as I know except one who is married everybody want to return in (few) (months),year(s). But this 'drach nach west' really piss me off. Poles should building their country not England, Irland etc.

In "Wprost". It's nice that your friends want to return to Poland. I have a friend that returned here after 10 years living abroad. But then again I also have some friends that went to the UK only to stay there for few months, and look at them, it's been two years and they are still there.

Generally it's hard to predict how many polish immigrants will eventually return, but I wouldn't count on them to come back and "save" us from our miserable faith. :) We heard it all before, from those that were forced to stay abroad after the WWII. At the beginning they thought that the commie regime won't last long, but after they realized that it's not a temporarily phenomenon, they decided to gather the knowledge and return one day to liberate their countrymen and improve their motherland. So they stayed abroad, gathered the knowledge that in the future was supposed to help them improve Poland in the future, they gathered, and gathered it.. in the mean time they married some British women, had children with them, built their own houses, set up some businesses, worked in their gardens, etc, it was hard at the beginning as they were the outsiders, and they were forced to start everything from scratch, but they manage quite well…All this time they kept gathering the knowledge, just to found out one day from the BBC news that their people back home decided not to wait for their help and overthrew the commie system by themselves. History likes to repeat itself.:)

But you are right, the whole "Drang nach westen" is a very sad thing. :(
OP Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
30 Dec 2006 /  #46
Im very pleased that this topic has managed to stay on topic and it's been very informative. Thank you for your input.
Moralny 1 | 60  
30 Dec 2006 /  #47
Matyjasz....
You cannot compare 'emigration' of polish soldiers after IIWW with this working migration. Poland is a UE member now, borders are open, people can work in every country inside EU and they take advantage of that. Some people go to UK or other country for few months and they come back and go again. Polish people are also moving from UK to other country like Sweden, Denmark, Swiss and vice versa. Wages in UK/Irland are 4-5 times higher that in Poland but ... for example flats in Poland are 4-5 times cheaper. In PL wages are growing quite fast lately and unemployment is falling. We will see what will happend. How many people will come back etc.

------
I count only on myself. Hmm no, not only :) but not at them
Frank 23 | 1,183  
30 Dec 2006 /  #48
people can work in every country inside EU and they take advantage of that.

Not for the latest entrants...only Ireland/UK/Denmark are legally open for the latest entrants to work in.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,379  
30 Dec 2006 /  #49
Polish workers still have problems working in Germany too.
OP Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
5 Jan 2007 /  #50
And still on topic, I think this is forum record...once again thank you for your input,
Moralny 1 | 60  
6 Jan 2007 /  #51
No problemo thanks Youtoo. Youtoo sounds like Yahoo, I have to patended it
FUCKPOLAND  
12 Nov 2007 /  #52
I'm English, I live in England and have done so all my life. I speak for for the majority in England when I say this, truthfully.

We wish you Polish parasites would go home and stop bleeding this country dry. Our economy would not fall apart without you. How was this country built up before you came?

By English people that's how.

You force wages down and house prices up. You leech the benefit system (tax credits) for children back 'home'. YOU are better off (the Polish), we are not.

What does England gain from Poland?

Scum!
osiol 55 | 3,921  
12 Nov 2007 /  #53
I speak for for the majority in England

Stop putting your filth into other people's mouths.
sledz 23 | 2,250  
12 Nov 2007 /  #54
FUCKPOLAND

Lookie lookie here another TROLL!!
Crnogorac 3 | 111  
12 Nov 2007 /  #55
Why do siamese twins go to England?

So the other one gets to drive a little.
FUCKPOLAND  
12 Nov 2007 /  #56
Brain drain?

For fucks sake, it's a compliment calling you lot 'halfwits'.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,099  
12 Nov 2007 /  #57
I speak for for the majority in England

You speak for yourself.

How was this country built up before you came?

By English people that's how.

Utter crap! If you dare to question this, get back to the history books.

You force wages down and house prices up.

Wages I've mentioned in another thread. House prices - greed of the British people (if Polish people are working in minimum wages jobs they can't be forcing house prices up!).
Crnogorac 3 | 111  
12 Nov 2007 /  #58
Brain drain?For fucks sake, it's a compliment calling you lot 'halfwits'.

If only I could have your head so that I could rest for a week...
osiol 55 | 3,921  
12 Nov 2007 /  #59
Brain

You have to own a brain to know what one is.
FUCKPOLAND  
12 Nov 2007 /  #60
Crnogorac,

Why have seagulls got wings?

To get to the tip before the Polish do!

('Tip' in England means rubbish dump)

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