If Poland is attacked by Russia will N.A.T.O help defend Poland or not?

All Your Base Are Belong To Us
All Your Base Are Belong To Us
All Your Base Are Belong To Us
!!!

umm....is that correct english???


I just did...here:

If it's like the British army even when you have left you are still on the active reserve list.

As reservists, I meant people with military training. It was 3 million couple of years
ago, so the number couldn't change that much since then. They're still alive :)
I admit that the abolition of conscription would be a problem in 20 years time when
those reservist are older and there aren't any new ones, but we will have enough
nuclear weapons in 20 years time not to worry about that :-)

You called that explanation? Why do you think I made fun of it, if **** hits the fan all bets are off.

Well, we are currently allied with Germany (unlike in 1939).

Don't be scared piorun if push comes to shove me,bb and torq will look after you, a very grand alliance :-)

I figured as much, indeed a force to be reckoned with.

Poland can arm approximately 230.000 troops.


And approximately a quarter of a milion combat rifles of all types (AKMS, Beryl, Miniberyl etc).

What are you going to arm the remaining 2.725.000 with? Every country has a strategic reserve in case of war which allows a number of troops to be outfitted, and even then only the professional 100k large core force would be armed with up to date equipment, the reserve would have gear from cold war era stockpiles.


What weapons? To arm 3 milion men you would need additional trucks, APCs, tanks etc.

We dont have enough combat rifles to arm even 20% of that number.

Well...why and how do you think the EU developed in the first place?
Mainly to interlock the former archenemies of Europe in a way economically first, then militarily, that they would would lose any interest to fight each other again...and it worked great, didn't it!

This progress didn't stop there and changed the face of Europe irreversible for decades now, with the new members going now through the same moves.

And before you can't proof a suspicious dark mustache under Mrs. Merkels nose I would ask you to refrain from such empty, idiotic phrases like "history likes to repeat itself!", thank you!

Oh right, hmmm..so please explain to me like Im a 2 year old, why and how we got involved last time? Or was that scotch mist?


Far away? So we didnt manage to cross the sea 60 years ago...blimey, we need to re-write history, aparently we were too far away ;0)

Anyway fekya, can we deport all the Poles so they can go and fight, we'll have the armourment orders though even Russia's - business is business :D


How big is our army with reserves do you think, not that we'll need them coz we're too far away :D

Indeed :-) Bring it on pesky ruskies

I can hardly believe that the stockpile is so ridiculously low. Maybe that's the number
of rifles for the current army disposal (that would make sense - about 2.5 rifle a soldier,
in case of malfunctions, wearing down etc. etc.) but certainly not the war stockpile!

Any links?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces#Equipment

There's nothing about the war stockpile there, BB - only the current army data.

I’ve seen her picture and never accused her of being Greek, as for idiotic phrase well alliances had been forged and broken throughout history what makes you think this one is special or that it will last? It only survives because it’s convenient to everyone at the moment but once the situation changes; who knows can you guarantee status quo? of course not.

You will get the Leo 2 as main battle tank! Cooooool

But the F-16 is already outdated right now...hmpf...

Poland is NATO since 1999. Yes, NATO will defend Poland unquestionably. Even if Poland was not NATO member, I believe US would step in heavy-handedly. There was talk of a US/Russia war over the Georgia/Ossetia crisis over the past year. It is surprising to hear how many Americans still dislike Russia, even young people. But people do not understand largely the implications of tactical nuclear weapons.


Russia has a population of 140 Million, Poland 38 Million, 3.5 to 1, those are not very bad odds, considering the size of Russia. Factor in that Russia is flat broke, the fact that the US has 300 Million population, Germany 83 Million, UK 60 Million,...

The presence of masses of nuclear weapons possessed by many NATO countries essentially precludes the possiblity of any incursive military action by Russia, ever. And in the event that they are retarded enough to try it,...they would not only be defeated,...they would be utterly annihilated.

I am going to put my helmet on now....just in case of nuclear attack...should i paint it white to reflect the fireball...?

Because this time it's different, Europe is different. It has changed irreversible because of the experiences of the last centuries.

Do you think the USA would accept a solitary attack on...say...Montana and left the state out all alone to fend for itself?
No, of course not. Who would attack Montana would also attack the whole of the UNITED STATES.

And that is what Europe is becoming too, a federation of UNITED STATES...we are well on the way!
Deeply interlocked and integrated with each other. So when some idiot would try to mess with one state he would attack automatically all the others too (and would get answered accordingly)!

Actually its not ridiculously low, 230.000 troops is quite a large force and its head and shoulders above its Russian counterparts, if mobilisation would be managed in time we'd have a good shot at succesfull defence against both Russia and Belarus (provided we dont get nuked).


Oh the rifles are the least of our problems.


Well for example we have 970 tanks and no further tanks in stockpile, around 110 combat planes and no further planes in reserve.

Same goes for self propelled artillery, our strategic stockpile consists mostly of towed artillery, AA assets, a small number of older armored vehicles, machineguns, rifles and RPGs so the troops would be mostly used as reach echelon, low profile protection and infantry bolstering mechanized formations.

As for links there's no links out there, all i know are guesstimates from Niezależne Forum o Wojsku but these guys know their stuff so i'm willing to bet on their opinions.


Gay parade?


Actually right now our F-16s are the best fighters in Europe.

Here's mine, wayyyyyyyyyy better than BBs :-)

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Nice to see a German defend Poland so furiously ;-) for a change, at least on paper, I’m not so sure in real world, don’t be offended but I don’t trust US either and Poland is not Montana neither for US or EU who are you kidding?

THAT is the future!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

Territorial defence doesn't really need tanks and airplanes. All they need is rifles,
grenades, RPG's, mines and similar "light" infantry equipement. We simply gotta
have enough of these to arm couple of million men.

Really, I am intrigued by your info, Sokrates. I will have to talk to one of my friend's
husband - an officer, who recently came back from Iraq. He should have some idea
on the matter.

I would be truly gobsmacked if what you're saying would turn out to be accurate.
What's the point of having 3 million trained reservists if you don't even have enough
infrantry weapons to equip them with?

Whoever was losing would push the big red buton first anyway.


You are just jealous because we look good in lycra and you don't.

[quote=Sokrates]Actually right now our F-16s are the best fighters in Europe.

lmao

Well...not bad...but then...I love ALL helmets! :)

They do if you want them to fight in a regular conflict.


Well we dont.


You shouldnt, thats a good strong force if it manages to get mobilised, by comparison Russia is unlikely to field more then 300.000 battle worthy units, and thats being extremely optimistic, Germany can probably arm even less soldiers then we do (though their equipment is light years ahead).


Replacements, also in communist era we had enough equipment to arm over a milion men (though whether that army was better then the current one is arguable).


They're one of the most expensive modernisation blocks out there and outperform every European fighter jet currently in service (including the Eurofighter) though Typhoons will get superior with the later production batches, its still going to be one of the best fighter jets in Europe.

The problem with you and most people out of the topic is that you dont realise a jet can be modernized to match or outperform newer designs by principle of just how bloody awesome and prone to modifications its basic design is.

For example F-16 is faster then the Eurofighter.

It's one of yours anyway (Anglo Saxon)

Well...when you don't have more than enough people like Russia you better invest in tanks and planes and other "big hitters".

A country like Poland just can't use it's soldiers as a never ending resource like countries like Russia can...

Future wars won't be won with Rifles!

Brainy developers are needed...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Soldier#Set-Up
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IdZ