Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan.

That's what was said in the media after 9/11. The targets were chosen for reasons. They were meant to be symbolic to the world.

materialism, yes but that's not ZOG. wtf?

well yeah because WTC is the center for drum roll please world trade and they associate it with zionism for some reason.

What's the use in debating you, you'll probably sic the anti-defamation league on me. Besides you'll never take the blame for anything. Thank God that screwball Bush and his war profiteering is gone.. Limey (for once) pegged that right.

DISCLAIMER*** Here again.. before Marek, SJam or any of these other fools show up.. I'm not advocating an Auschwitz in Newark or something.. nor do I don't want Jews killed. I just often wonder why we have to constantly appease 1.5% of the population who are usually up to some crooked bull sh/t ala Bernie Madoff.

maybe because america sure seems like puppet to israel.

nice disclaimer there wahldo. lol

Stupid Talibans, now all Poles will hate Pakistani in Poland.

thanks man.. otherwise, who knows, they might get me and my boss fired ;- U

Hello, it is not an excuse to hate innocent pakistanis who are in countries wanting to help out and be a part of a civilized society. That is the difference.

I read a lot of whining on this forum concerning the bad deal the Palestinians get. Well, WHY is it you think they get that bad deal????

And when they pull this kind of crap (and they do the same sort of thing when given the chance, same tactics as Taliban and other al queda inspired/trained groups, blowing people up, kidnapping of innocent foreigners who are only there to help their crappy little countries, make them better places to live) and there is retaliation from countries like Israel and the US, the countries that retaliate against them are labeled war mongerers or nazis. It's nothing but a bunch of BS.

How many Pakistanis come to the US, contribute, own businesses, pay taxes, participate in society and government in the US? NONE of them have to put up with this crap from Americans, they do NOT get treated like this when they come here. Americans do not kidnap them off the street, put them on television make them recite some BS and then execute them in the most barbaric of ways. DON'T YOU DARE SCAPEGOAT!!!!

^^he wrote:


c'mon that's a pretty fair statement (i think)


I think he's making a guess as to how the rank and file Pole will react (or has reacted).

Well the press have been told that they do know....

Geez, HB, it is VERY clear to me how 9/11 came about. Israelis were celebrating in many places. The Dancing Israelis, wanna see it? Wanna see the overwhelming evidence that the Mossad were in on it? That they knew well in advance? That certain personnel told them. Many intel agencies knew. It was a huge international plot where many tried to cover their hides. It started with the ISI in Pakistan.

OK, let's take away all the foreign equipment from Israel and see what they are left with, catapults probably. Hamas are radicals and innocent Palestinians just want to get on with their lives. Can't you see that?

Anyway, this is about Pakistan. America is not even getting a strategic foothold in so what's the point? Pakistan harbours so many terrorists. Nrx, can you really tell me that the Pakistani forces, all 90,000 of them, are winning the fight?

You have no idea what the US is or isn't doing at Gitmo, other than what they've told you they did. IF playing bad music, or scaring specific known terrorists that we are going to kill them unless they give names or places.....somehow bothers you, it only shows you are human. It doesn't take away from the fact of what these particular individuals did to be put there in the first place.

Having talked to people who were guards at Gitmo...perhaps this stuff happened somewhere else or something, because they (the guards) did not get to lift a finger toward the prisoners, and even had to wear gloves if they had to pass something in like a Koran etc. which they were considered "unclean" to touch.

Also the inmates were being treated so badly that they are getting fat.
As posted above, don't believe everything you hear. Some is true, some is not.

John P.

er... or didnt...

Well maybe Pakistanis are not kidnapped and beheaded but trust me whenever something stupid is done by Taliban, its always a bad news for the rest of Pakistanis. Right after 9/11, within 3 months, the real estate prices in Pakistan went up by 600% because of all the US based Pakistanis who had to leave the country because of "hate crimes" and discrimination. A friend of mine who was studying at a US university and was no less lame than Millhouse was actually tortured and deported because he shared a flat with a Syrian. As far as I know there wasn't even a single Pakistani among the hijackers. And don't even ask me what I have to go through at the airports every single time. And I don't blame the public for that. Your governments have created such an environment of fear to legitimize their wars that this becomes a natural reaction. In Pakistan, maybe due to some British era nostalgia or just plain curiosity, foreigners are generally treated as very special by general public. Its episodes like this one that flush all their hospitality down the toilet.


First of all harbour is not the right word to describe the presence of terrorists in Pakistan. I am not denying the seriousness of the issue or their presence but it almost sounds like that our government has opened up a terrorist farm or something. These are all the remnants and offspring of remnants of Cold War. Even today, none of them (arabs, north african arabs, uzbeks, tajiks, syrians) come through Emirates airlines. They use Afghanistan as their transit which by the way won't even let us fence the boundary. What is the first thing you would do if your neighbor's kids wreck havoc in your open backyard? Before sending foreign troops into Pakistan which by the way would disturb the natural order of things for all 170 million, why don't they make any diplomatic efforts in terms of pursuing Afghanistan to close the border, even temporarily? Right now, forces in both countries share the same problem. Since they are legitimate armies, they cannot cross the boundary and only chase them upto a certain point, unfortunately same does not apply to terrorists, they cross it whenever they feel like. As for the 90,000 troops, its a question of their survival as well. If we don't defeat them talibans, it amounts to losing our own territory which atleast for the Pakistani army is more significant than the lives of Americans. So if they don't take this fight seriously, they'll end losing their own country. So I don't think there is a reason to doubt their commitment.

______________________________________

As far as those of you who are planning a tourist visa to chase them, I have a hint for you. If you have seen any of the videos of the Polish engineer, you might notice that there's a sign board in the background. And no, it doesn't say, Death to America. It reads, "Taliban movement Pakistan, Dara Adam Khel. Dara Adam Khel is the name of the place where they are located. Its one of the major strongholds of taliban with about a couple of hundred thousand civilians as well. Pakistan army has also used aerial bombings but before they do that, they have to evacuate the place from civilians. Already there are close to a million refugees living in camps as a result of such evacuations.

nrx,
reading your post it must be truly frustrating to put up with a lot that you do, and people wonder "why doesn't US invade Pakistan". It is because Pakistan is at least TRYING to do something, and just because some of the public doesn't know this, there are people who do. Every little bit helps. It's just a mess is all. When people say that I wonder why they don't say, well, "why doesn't the EU/US/UN whatever invade the UK, or the US or whatever, because there are criminals there (gasp!)"


True....
Not that you would know one way or other anyway. I'm sure all prisons theoretically house one or two innocents. However most of these were not captured pending some civil trial for a crime...but were captured in the act or some such, and used to gain information on others who were still out there killing. POW's are NEVER released before the end of hostilities, and last I checked, there hasn't been a message from OBL or any of those calling for the end of attacks. Methodology may be distasteful, but I'm sure most of the people released from basement "prisons" awaiting their video recorded executions...are not concerned that one of the leaders of their captors was put through discomfort to disclose where he or she could be rescued.

John P.

The news such as the following is a daily occurrence in Pakistan, sometimes I wonder why don't they make it to international media. There is no reason to blame people if they think Pakistanis are doing nothing.

geo.tv/2-9-2009/34773.htm

I don't see the connection between that and the Mossad. That, alone is not proof the Mossad was in on 9/11.
The question I have for you, Seanus, is: if the Mossad was in on it why is the US allies with Israel? Do you honestly believe the US would be allies with Israel after that?

As far as people around the world celebrating after 9/11, all I can say is what country takes in so many people from around the world, lets them participate in society, own businesses, protects them, includes them in the political process, lets them own properties? It's the US. And yet there are people who want to celebrate when terrorists do a hit and kill thousands? They hate the US because here we don't kidnap random people off the street, innocent people who do nothing and cut their heads off. For that we are hated.

No. They appreciate you for that. If the same people who were dancing after 9/11, were to be offered a green card, they wouldn't think twice before saying yes. Its the consistently biased policies of your governments that they despise.

Well, nrx, all I can say is fuck pakistan. Do you know if he would have come to America not only would he be alive today he would have a really good salary, respect as an expert in his field, probably a pretty nice home in a decent neighborhood.

They had information, it's a fact. I can even show you the documents, HB. Were you there to "document the event" too? Why were so many Jews warned not to work on that day? Why did certain Jewish companies relocate?

They knew, as did other agencies. Sharon got it right, the US has been grabbed by the balls. Israel controls them much more than you imagine. Yes, Israel helped to give the US administration their pretext. How naive you seem, HB. It's as clear as day to me.

As for Pakistan, sorry, I don't trust that all relevant and available steps are being taken. Musharraf was half-hearted in his attempts. Quite the game player he was.

I don't know the specifics, but wasn't it close to Rosh Hashana? That might be it. A holiday. I just don't buy into the conspiracy theories. Let me tell you, where i live there are many conspiracy theories surrounding certain events I won't go into vivid detail about what they are. I am so fed up with conspiracy theories. They don't seem plausible. We had a grand jury here wasting tax dollars diving into someone's conspiracy theory sifting through mounds of evidence and after it was all over guess what? They reached the EXACT CONCLUSION that was reached previously. In certain cases, yes, a grand jury might be needed to investigate botched trials but these high profile cases are picked over so thoroughly I doubt there is much need for an investigation.

You are right about Musharraf. And the reason is that he was a dictator and like any other dictator he needed ways to legitimize his rule. He needed to prove to his people that look there is a serious problem going on in NW, and I am your only hope. The biggest proof is the Red Mosque episode. Those people had a huge arsenal of weapons right in the heart of the capital. How could it be that they were collecting those weapons for one whole year and nobody from the government knew about it. The reason is simple, he intentionally turned a blind eye towards the problem so that he can prove himself to be a hero at the end of the day. But right now, there's a democratic government and they know and if they don't do anything about it they're not gonna get elected next time. Military activities in the NW are much more stronger today than they were during Musharraf's time. During that period we never heard about any militants dying or gunship helicopters being used to pound their hideouts. Its such a coincidence that whenever there's a dictator in Pakistan, republicans are in power in US.


Well no comments. Like many, you probably also blame the whole population of 170 million for the acts of few. I am used to that now.

I don't blame the entire population.

Maybe so. Also alluding to your other post, mentioning that the biased policies of the government create hate...maybe maybe not, I think the problem we as Americans have, is that there are two massive parties controlling everything, and they spend years now in campaigns, and mountains of money on the media...all to convince the populace that the other party and its administration is the center of all that is evil in the universe. Both parties do this. Unfortunately, they forget that when they are successful, they also make America as a whole appear to be this center of all that is evil, as well. So, after years of this, they start believing their own stories, as do the public...next thing one knows, the election has been won, and they promptly throw out all the good policies as well as the bad, if only because the other party supported them.

I imagine if this frustrates me, as an American, it must be doubly so for other nations looking for our support. We no doubt seem somewhat schizophrenic as a nation. There are things both parties pay lip service to, but in their rush to bash the policies of the opposition, the baby is thrown out with the bath water it would seem.

This no doubt makes it difficult to feel secure in an agreement with the U.S. knowing that the next party may use it only as so much kindling, or friendships with nations are dropped, etc... It is silly, perhaps, but this is how I see it.

John P.

seems US didn't really have jack shit on most of them.


you would to if you were caged up in a 6x6 "cell"


dude. US shipped a bunch of them back without charging them with anything. thus bw's comment is TRUE.


they aren't pows, remember?


yup, sure would continue support of israel. uss liberty, anyone?


no, US is hated for meddling in others' affairs. get it straight.


just because YOU view them as such does not make them untrue, just unproven for now.


the 'fuck pakistan" comment surely proved that. :rolleyes:

Now YOU are making things up.


who says this is the "condition" there? again...?


Wrong again. One of them is allegedly head of AQ in Sudan, now. They weren't kept to be tried for crimes, initially...that is something that has been invented by people trying for their release. They insisted they are POW's....so we let them stay til the war is over. German POW's in Pennsylvania during WWII...did not get tried for crimes, but nor were they released back to German forces until the end of the war. Some of the people at Gitmo no doubt are terrorists of the worst sort. Perhaps they will be tried for this. Others were merely participating in other roles. When they are deemed by some court somewhere to no longer be a threat, they are released. As in the case of the people you refer to. So again....wrong.


I don't think they are, but because they demand protection as the same under Geneva conventions, they have to be treated as such. Remember that argument from the past? it has come full circle. Terrorists have never been covered by Geneva conventions nor have combatants hiding amongst innocent civilians...but people insisted they be treated as if they were soldiers. You can't have it both ways, even though our government is trying to give it to them that way.


So we've established your feelings about Americans...but ultimately...your country does it too, and did before America was anything more than a struggling nobody on the international scene. By your measure, ALL countries should be hated.


Ahhh I see now. Good luck avoiding those mind control transmissions...if ours don't get you, the Russians' will ;)

John P.

Something I don't understand about G'Bay prison is that if everything was cool over there then why does it have to be in Cuba and not USA, clearly in violation of 1903 Cuban American Treaty. Any thoughts JohnP?

huh? why would US shipe them back without any other action then?


ok, maybe the cells are 8x8. what's your point?


bush said otherwise, dude. not POWs but illegal enemy combatants, eh?


most of the people release in the past didn't see any court or judge. jeez


and thus far US has not granted them that status and is definitely not following the G. conventions in those people's detention.


huh? how?


lol. the "investigations" of the events of 9-11 can hardly be called conclusive or total. there are tons of unanswered questions that the gov isn't willing to answer or seek an answer to.

Ones who are kept because they were captured in combat, and are not deemed to return to it...sometimes get lucky. It isn't as if political decisions are made using common sense, unfortunately. I think all of us can point to examples of this, not just in the US, either.


They are allowed to exercise and aren't put under so much hardship that they are uncomfortable eating, either. As to the cell sizes...it IS a prison, not a vacation club, but they still have living conditions perhaps even better than the men who guard them do, if what I have heard is correct. We could just set them free I'm sure you have a guest room much bigger than 8x8...


Seems the definition was changed by the media and people like yourself many many times, just to make sure they were eligible for every possible creature comfort. Originally, they were simply terrorists. Then people scream, because terrorists are protected by virtually no laws...but the definition of an enemy combatant (which would allow them protection) is quite specific, and they do not fit it therefore the term "illegal enemy combatant" was coined, to justify Geneva conventions protection while ignoring that these often used civilians as shields (and often, targets) wore no uniforms, attacked then dropped weapons, and terrified townspeople by beheading and or shooting those of differing political views. That's just the "little" guys. The big ones...are high ups in larger international organizations, some involved in 9-11, others in the UK and Spanish train bombings, etc... but hey, if the media wants to make them into innocent farmers or "tourists" etc, so be it. As long as THEY have a guest room for the people in question.


Again, you obviously pay lip service to the Geneva conventions, but ignore the portions about who is excluded. You speak as if you know much about secret US actions, but honestly you have no more clue than anyone else. I only have slightly more information...so it is beyond me how you portend to know all these things you claim.


I'm sure you could spend millenia arguing over the meaning of life, too...how much money do you think should be spent? Sometimes the people with the smoking gun actually DID it. You smugly say "investigations" in quotes, again, like you know what is or isn't. Many people worked very hard on what they had. Just because some nutjob has a conspiracy theory doesn't mean the conspiracy is true, or that billions should be spent attempting to follow each and every one. There is a dead man in the room, 2 of his friends and one who openly hated his guts....sometimes it really is the one who hated his guts who killed him.

John P.

This is ridiculous. If terrorists had never flown planes into buildings there wouldn't be this "environment". The last things Americans want to do is go into another country filled with head strong fundies and fight a war with them. What Americans want is to buy stuff, own stuff, eat lots of food, watch television, go to the occasional dinner party, movie, or out to a bar.

The governments do not create the fear. I don't believe for one second the US government had anything to do with 9/11. It was sloppiness. People were in this country that really shouldn't be here. They slipped through the cracks and because of American inattention they were able to hijack and pull off 9/11.

What I wonder, is, what do they want to accomplish? What is the point of it? I don't think it matters. That is what I don't understand about terrorists. They want to cause more problems on top of the problems that already exist. They don't want constructive, peaceful resolutions. They set themselves up by thinking they can get away with terrorism when it's so obvious it's going to make everything worse, not better.