Apology to Russians for Osetia and American missile base

Uhh.. You're surprised by that? Not me. I'd only be surprised if he knew where it was.

Now you point out to me on a map where are:

Burkina Faso, Mozambique, Yucatan and Lake Titicaca.

Burkina Faso or Mozambique does not claim to be our best ally and doesn’t build missile silos in Poland and vice versa. Mozambique (with Mugabe) actually more or less officially supports white cleansing of its country, but that is another topic...

In a near feature US will have a population that is overwhelmingly Spanish (read Mexican) and black. Do you think they will democratically go rescue Poland, when Ivan the Great rolls in with its tanks, honoring its treaty?

I don’t think so, in fact they couldnt even do it when US was populated mostly by western European whites and Roosevelt ended up selling us short. I think we have to live near Russians and it is in our best interest to have the best relations possible with Russians, not pissing them off on every single occasion we get; acting like a little barking chuchuawa because the Great Texas Cowboy., who by the way does not give a flying s%## about its own nation, needs to destabilize Russian power and the best way to do it is to promise some patriotic-lunatic-mupet-president verbal "endless friendship" pact and the little naive cretin jumps up and down making empty threats towards Russia... And for what? Georgia?

Somehow those "patriots" did not scream when their brothers- Serbs where protecting their country against Muslim epidemic, Kosovo and Clinton fed them with bombs since its always the simplest to blame everything on the Slav, splitting their own country at the end.

Im surprised that Poles being so stuck up with its own history don’t see what’s cooking, but like Russians say: They will have a plenty of Georgian wine for the winter, since their natural gas source will be cut off. Im sure George W. will care a lot!

You know a lot about what Russians say don't you?

- Some call it intelligence. I actually had fun sitting and learing their language in grammar school.

some might also call it allegiance.

Doesnt matter. Im seeking rational arguments of why I should think any different. So far I havent seen any...

i like idea that Poland and Russia start to work togather

those are last true powers of Slavic world. Only united efforts of Poland and Russia could result in liberation of all Slavs from slavery to foreign schemes

Complite and utter bollox.

EVERY Pole that I have asked....and I've asked more than a thousand...said without hesitation that they don't want this shield and they think it can only bring trouble to Poland.

Read the various threads on this subect and you will see that the ONLY people to suport this un-wanted shield are on the other side of the atlantic and people here in Poland DON'T WANT YOUR SHIELD!

That's exactly why the US base is so needed here. Because it would be much much harder for US to turn away eyes and pretend nothing happening if Ivan's tanks were rolling 5 miles away from their base. And in case of conflict, what if - even if US troops would like to try maintain neutrality - they would be attacked accidentaly?


Yes, bad bad Poland!
Pissing Russians by getting independent after 1989
Pissing Russians by independently choosing their defensive alliances
Pissing Russians by demanding to lift Russian embargoes, and - what's even more outrageous - seeking EU help for it (of course in vain but nevertheless)

Finally pissing Russians by condemning their actions in Georgia, instead bending and getting the as*h*le wider in good old teutonic style.
Bad, very bad Poland!


Wahldo, I'm sure JE only accidentally forgot to add that russian was his primary language at that school ;)

Erm...and how will this shield help against "rolling tanks"???

Unleash your imagination, and think how would it be if part of US missile base was built in Georgian city Gori. Would this city still was destroyed and then occupied by Russian troops or maybe not, how do you think?

Georgia started it first with attacking Tskhinvali!

I bet the US troops there would had first wait to get the order to take part on behalf of the Georgians...that would had made a Georgian/Russian conflict quickly to an US/Russian conflict - I doubt very much this order would had come ever!

Now unleash your imagination...can you see the US risking a direct war with Russia over Georgia or Poland (war of words or proxy wars not withstanding).

Mozambique's got nothing to do with Mugabe. You might wanna get your facts right and place Mugabe in Zimbabwe where belongs and is President lest your army'd go bombing poor Mozambique in search of Mugabe!

Definitely not. No one, well maybe McCain, wants a return to a Cold War scenario. We need to understand the Russian predicament more. America just seized an opportunity to jump on them. Russia at least tried to be pragmatic. If Bush is such a principled man, believing in territorial integrity being golden, he should've made a stand against Russia as he maintains that the above 2 are part of Georgia.

In his heart, he knows that Russia were redressing the balance, having not been so harsh in their criticism of the West for either Kosovo or Iraq. He could have castigated them for that.

...after being constantly provoked and shooted by Ossetian rebels. With so-called Russian peacekeepers pretending they see nothing.


US wouldn't have to fight. Being there would be enough for Russian to be afraid (unless they are completely brainless)


That's not the point, because neither Poland, neither Georgia will ever attack Russia first and unprovoked - it's obvious when you compare the military force of potential belligerents.

The real question is if Russia would risk a direct war with US over Georgia or Poland. And somehow, as history tells, Ivan was always afraid of to do so. The best example was 50 years period after the IIWW when they didn't attack West Germany, bah! - they didn't even try to "reunite" Berlin (militarily, because they do setup blockade ofcourse)

So...having fights with rebels/freedom fighters is an apology in your eyes to attack a capital full of civilians to further their opression? Interesting...


Afraid of what? Of not involved US-troops? Of not used (against them) US weaponry?


That's why such a military base is so useless!
No planned attack against them where such a thing might be needed and in case of an attack by them it won't be used anyway...what else does it but poisening the atmosphere further?


Actually I'm quite grateful or central Europe (with Berlin) would had very probably become a nuclear wasteland!

What apology? The rebels could attack somewhere else too, not from capital full of civilians. Georgians have moral right to response for that, though they were stupid to let them provoke yourselves (as everything was obviously planned in Moscow)


Afraid of accidental fire with them for example... returning US soldiers to their homeland in coffins - even if unintended- can be the first and last step to real confict with USA.


Of course not. And both sides priofit from the deal - US are getting their rocket shield defense, we are getting additional protection from any future agressor.


You are grateful to Russians for being sane? Better be grateful to US for their bases, because if not them you'd probably speak Russian today instead of English :)

Apology to Russia?!?! This is an insane idea, you do not apologize for Russian aggression. No one knows the real facts of the situation and how Georgian was baited into this for years, anyone remember the shooting down of Georgian drones, internet attacks and so on.

The US knew Russia would try someday to assert itself and as we can see there assertions and there methods will not change anytime soon, the only way to stop further wars in this region is to do everything possible to fight it not bend to appeasment.

The US knew this day would come thats why the scramble to invite to Nato however some European nations F%@ed up by not allowing Georgia in Immediatley.

If Russia is not checked here they will continue to bully all those around them and I can tell you if Europe is incabable of dealing with it the US will alone as always.

lol... don't say what a common Pole thinks or doesn't think, who are you to say. I'm sorry to break this to you, but the majority of Poles actually support the idea.

Since his native tongue is German, your statement shows only your personal preference to be f@cked up by Anglo-Saxons (it's better to specify americans) rather than by fraternal Russians. Well... jedem das seine.

Good to notice as well... speaking Russian is not a problem but just another ability that represent you as a well-educated man. However russophobia is a problem. ;)

Speaking Russian is not a problem... if you really want to learn it of course, problem is when you are forced to learn Russian since little kid while any other foreign languages - especially english - were deliberately neglected.

How do you imagine in the modern world (not 30 years ago) that you're deliberately forced to learn anything? Besides it's good to know that nowadays there're lots of stuff that you pick subconciously having a strong belief in that you really need it. As for English... what would be your career opportunities like now with no second language (read "english")? Isn't it kinda force? Although nobody dabs AK47 in your back... ;) they merely say "study language or linger out your life".

That's true! I absolutely agree with you. US is nation of murderers, they do not care about anything when they bombs or just kill. The main priority for them is to provide so called "national interests" in other countries without having invitation. Just like this - we needed it!? - we'll take it! That's their core. Americans are canaille gazered from all over the world and controlled by Jewish big businesses.

First, West Germany begin to exist in 1949 - it's even more than 30 years ago.


...living in communist regime? And this is what could happen to West Germany if there won't be US/NATO bases there - they would be "united" with DDR (and so in result all German kids would start to learn Russian at schools)

I do not believe any nation on earth actually pays the victims families for accidental bombing/military actions.

Oh yeah wait except the US, yeah may fall short to the families but its better than any other govt. they at least take responsibility.

Example this latest 90 death toll in Afganistan, Independent observers still have found no evidence, propaganda or what most think is families wanting to cash in on the US when there is no such evidence to date.

There is nothing about US/NATO bases. That was a decision of former USSR who gave the rights to Germans to unite their halfs. That was a result of Gorbachev's perestroika, nothing more.

Paying money is scant consolation. U cannot equate the loss of life monetarily in such a fashion. Payouts in the workplace for death are extensively regulated, it's a different story in times of war.

To have the US sign a defence pact with Poland is indeed huge, they will act much more quickly and decisively than Nato could ever hope, just wake the sleeping giant and the world will see again.

The only thing saving Georgia now is that the US has just that agreement, why else would they not take the whole of Georgia? They wanted and still want to but they know and have been told.

Some will say then why doesnt the US go in now, peace is restorted for the moment, its time for talk.

Sean and no money is nowhere near close to fixing a lost family member and I mentioned that. There is no justification, but it happens and at least the US takes responsiblity for it.

Sheep worth more than humans....

In another case, an Iraqi civilian said US forces opened fire with more than 100 rounds on his sleeping family, killing his mother, father and brother. Such was the firepower that 32 of the family's sheep were also killed. The army acknowledged responsibility and made two payments: a compensation payment of $11,200 and a $2,500 condolence payment.