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Help with pronunciation of Gorecki Symphony


cvangelisti 1 | 2  
10 Sep 2008 /  #1
I am a classical singer (clairevangelisti.com). I have just been asked to sing a movement from Henryk Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 and I need help with a few lines of pronunciation. I would graciously accept any guidance. I have sung in Russian and Czech but never Polish. The text is taken from the wall of a Polish concentration camp, written by an 18 year-old girl. Here it is:

Mamo, Mamo, nie placz,

Niebios Przeczysta Królowo,

Ty zawsze wspieraj mnie.

Zdrowaś Mario Laskiś Pelna
krysia 23 | 3,057  
10 Sep 2008 /  #2
It gonna be smtg like this:

Mamo, Mamo, nie placz,

Niebios Przeczysta Królowo,

Ty zawsze wspieraj mnie.

Zdrowaś Mario Laskiś Pelna

Mah-moh, Mah-moh nye pwatch,
Nye-bee-os pshe-chys-tah Kroo-loh-voh,
tee zaw-sheh f-spee-eh-rai m-nye
Z-droe-vash Ma-ree-io was-keesh pew-nah("pe" like "pellets"
OP cvangelisti 1 | 2  
11 Sep 2008 /  #3
Thank you SO MUCH!! I think Polish is more complicated than Russian! This Symphony is a beautiful piece of music and is "looped," or played over and over again, in the Holocaust museum in D.C. Even if you don't like classical music, it is worth a listen.
plg 17 | 263  
11 Sep 2008 /  #4
Mamo, Mamo, nie placz,

Niebios Przeczysta Królowo,

Ty zawsze wspieraj mnie.

Zdrowaś Mario Laskiś Pelna

AND WHATS IT MEAN IN ENGLISH KRYSIA
OP cvangelisti 1 | 2  
16 Sep 2008 /  #5
Oh Mamma do not cry—Immaculate Queen of Heaven support me always - this is what I have. I don't think it is complete
Switezianka - | 463  
18 Sep 2008 /  #6
Mother, mother, don't weep,
The Purest Queen of the Heavens
Always support me.
Hail Mary, full of grace.

I don't think any pseudo-phonetic transcription can give you any idea of the pronunciation. Polish sounds are just completely different.
I think you should either get a recording of this symphony (it shouldn't be a problem), or if you can't figure it out, I can recite it and record it for you, and send it to you in mp3 (I'm a native speaker, so that will be the most proper pronunciation). I don't have the best mic in the world but it should be enough. If you want it, send me your e-mail via PM.

Cool someone is finally not interested in Doda or Feel but in some real music.
Hobbes 1 | 18  
7 Jan 2009 /  #7
Merged: CZTERY Pronunciation

Hello, I am new to the forums and I have a question.

My polish friend keeps talling me that I cannot pronounce the word "Cztery" correctly, even when I repeat exactly what he says. He tells me there is a saying that is "Only people from Poland can pronounce Polish", but I am really trying to get it right, so can someone take this step by step with me?

For example, use phonetics or try spell it out in English or German pronounciation (zB. Fourty- For-tee)

And also, to name the real problem, it's with the ending "ry"

Thanks/Danke
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Jan 2009 /  #8
ry

Trill the r. Don't pronounce it for too long, Then the y is like a short English i sound, like in big, fish, chips.

Are you convinced you've got the czt bit right. I would have thought that would be the tricky bit.

use phonetics

Until it is possible and practical to type with IPA, then this will always be unreliable.

I always check when people ask these questions, where the questioner is from. I'm no expert on German pronunciation, but I know to give a different kind of answer to someone from northern as opposed to southern England, or the US as opposed to... blah blah blah.

ery - if it had ng on the end it would rhyme with herring.
mafketis 23 | 8,144  
7 Jan 2009 /  #9
The first sound (cz) is like 'ch' in English 'chips' or 'tsch' in Deutsch.

The second sound (t) is not like an English t at all, it's made against the teeth as in Spanish or Italian (and at least some kinds of German, I don't know about yours).

The next sound (e) is like English e in 'get' or German nett.

The next sound (r) is like a single r in Spanish or Italian (not like English or German r at all).

The final vowel (y) is like 'i' in English sick or hit (this doesn't occur in word final position in English) maybe like German i in Mist or schicken (again it doesn't occur at the end of words in German).

Also important: Polish doesn't have long or short vowels, all the vowels are pronouned clearly, the word cztery has two syllables and the first is stressed but be careful not to make it too long (and to not make the second vowel too short).
loco polaco 3 | 353  
7 Jan 2009 /  #10
the polish Y is just like the english Y in LiberY.

so, chteh-rY
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
7 Jan 2009 /  #11
the polish Y is just like the english Y in LiberY.

not sure about that at all.....how about TY? I am sure it doesnt rhyme with TEA
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Jan 2009 /  #12
the polish Y is just like the english Y in LiberY.

I've never heard of such a word, libery.

The letter y in final position in English is usually more equivalent to the Polish i rather than y (that's if it's not like the y in try which is more like a Polish aj).

Another important difference is that the English i sound, found in words like tea, is more of a dipthong (possibly like a Polish ij, maybe yj). Long English vowels have a tendency to be dipthongs or glides rather than pure vowels. The long English u, as in rune, would be rendered in Polish as uł rather than just u.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Jan 2009 /  #14
I still think that that final -y in English is only the same as in Polish in certain English accents of the north of England. I have often been complimented on my Polish pronunciation, only slightly less so on my talking like a Yorkshireman.
cjjc 29 | 408  
7 Jan 2009 /  #15
My attempt in my own phonetics:

ch-te-rry (fast short ch) (rr=trilled r)

My mum can say it without any help and a little guidance from that.
loco polaco 3 | 353  
7 Jan 2009 /  #16
I still think that that final -y in English is only the same as in Polish in certain

right but the 'y' in liberty sounds right to me.
Hobbes 1 | 18  
7 Jan 2009 /  #17
I can't say how happy I am, thank you guys SOOO much, i'm definetly staying here (if it's all right with you guys ^^)

GREAT Help, I can't tell you how happy I am, especially with the Herring-Ery with ng at the end, but really, all of of you helped me sooo much

I'll try on polish friend and see what he says ^^
nunczka 8 | 458  
7 Jan 2009 /  #18
Lets face it. Polish is one tough language to learn. I was born into it by my immigrant parents, but if I were in Poland today, I would have trouble. Modern day Poles use words that I never heard before. Maybe it is like America..It depends on what part of the country that one lives in.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Jan 2009 /  #19
right but the 'y' in liberty sounds right to me.

Are you from Yorkshire or Lancashire? Or are you just a Pole who doesn't speak great English?
loco polaco 3 | 353  
7 Jan 2009 /  #20
nah, my engrish is purrrrrrrrrrrfect.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
7 Jan 2009 /  #21
Aha! You're still there. How would you describe the difference between the Polish sounds: i, y, yj, and so on?
loco polaco 3 | 353  
7 Jan 2009 /  #22
in polish you'd describe just like you did in your post here. :D
EmmaT2008 5 | 34  
7 Jan 2009 /  #23
Try watching this and practice.
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=abR7iFQ8kCw
Hobbes 1 | 18  
7 Jan 2009 /  #24
I had already seen, and in fact I've favorited, but he goes too fast, and even when I do repeat him, my friend keeps telling me I do it wrong >:0!!!
cjjc 29 | 408  
8 Jan 2009 /  #25
say.expressivo.com/DpcXzfXc

Try that.

:)
EmmaT2008 5 | 34  
17 Jan 2009 /  #26
Merged: Mieczyslaw Pronunciation

How do you say "Mieczyslaw" correctly. Could someone try to explain in English?

Thanks
cjjc 29 | 408  
17 Jan 2009 /  #27
Me-yeah-che-slav

Listen here:
say.expressivo.com/xGF7TRdZ

Are you sure it's not Mieczysław??

:)
EmmaT2008 5 | 34  
17 Jan 2009 /  #28
I think you are correct sorry I wrote it out incorrect, thank you :)
esek 2 | 228  
17 Jan 2009 /  #29
say.expressivo.com/dAgvGxoI
cjjc 29 | 408  
17 Jan 2009 /  #30
I think you are correct sorry I wrote it out incorrect, thank you :)

If you wrote it incorrect and it is Mieczysław then it changes to:

Me-yeah-che-swav

say.expressivo.com/dAgvGxoI

:)

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