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FUTURE OF VOCATIVE IN POLISH?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
13 Jul 2009 /  #1
Some say the vocative is on the way out, but probbaly its use is only decreasing and is not likely to disappear within the foreseeable future.

You hear stuff such as "Gośka chodź", "Ciocia, so słychać?"...but when an old gramps is dodderingly trying to clamber up into a tram some macho-thug behind would probably say: "Ruszaj się dziadku!" (not dziadek). And President Kaczyński has become (in)famous for once telling a beggar: "Spieprzaj dziadu!"

Has anyone noticed how -ec nouns seem to be changing their vocative ending: "Szeregowcze, sprzątaj po sobie!"" is correct but you may see "Szeregowcu..."

That can't be only because military types are not the brainy sort, because one also might see on the gate of an allotment garden a notice proclaiming: "Działkowcu...."

Is this form officially recognised or is it simply popular colloquial language?
terri 1 | 1,665  
13 Jul 2009 /  #2
But vocative, as I understood is equivalent to someone shouting for that person or thing, so you would say "O dziadKU", "O Matko", " O KrzysiU", "O Dzialkowcu" - or am I missing somethng?
Lyzko  
13 Jul 2009 /  #3
Likewise, the 'untimely' demise of the genitive case in present-day German (..whose death, to quote the great Oracle from Hannibal, Mo. Mr. Mark Twain himself, has been somewhat exaggerated!).

There'll most probably always be holdouts in Polish society who insist on/persist in using the seventh declension long after it's become fashionable, and I say "More power to 'em!"

Marek
Michallikes 10 | 34  
13 Jul 2009 /  #4
"Gośka chodź"
"Ruszaj się dziadku!"
"Spieprzaj dziadu!"
"Szeregowcze, sprzątaj po sobie!"

I think that these are in the imperative mode, correct me if I am wrong, explain to me why they are vocative please.

They are instructions or commands telling someone to do something.

Thanks.
Lyzko  
13 Jul 2009 /  #5
There is a subtle case distinction in Polish between "Chodź pan!" = Come!, clearly in the imperative vs. "Dzień dobry panu!" dative and "No, Panie Dyrektorze! Jak się pan ma?" = Well, _________________ (title untranslated in English, as to call one's superior "Boss!" smacks a bit of Al Capone and gangterism-:):-) ), how are you? which in Polish probably still takes the vocative. LOL

Marek
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204  
14 Jul 2009 /  #6
"Gośka chodź"
"Ruszaj się dziadku!"
"Spieprzaj dziadu!"

I think that these are in the imperative mode, correct me if I am wrong, explain to me why they are vocative please.

Yes, the verbs are in the imperative mode, as the term "mode" refers to a verb, not to a noun. "Dziadku" and "dziadu" are vocatives, whereas "Gośka" is nominative (I think "Gośka" doesn't have a vocative case, or it is the same as its nominative, while "Gosia" would have a separate one which is "Gosiu").
Moonlighting 31 | 233  
16 Jul 2009 /  #7
I think "Gośka" doesn't have a vocative case, or it is the same as its nominative

Wouldn't it be "Gośko" ?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204  
16 Jul 2009 /  #8
Theoretically you are right, although this vocative is extremely rare.
Moonlighting 31 | 233  
17 Jul 2009 /  #9
I was always curious to know the vocative form of Aga. Is it simply Aga? Maybe Ago? Certainly not Agu...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204  
17 Jul 2009 /  #10
It is "Ago". I have just been asking myself when the ending is -o, and when it is -u for the feminine noun. It seems that it is the former when the stem of a noun ends in a hard consonant (mamo, Ago), whereas it is the latter when it ends in a soft one (ciociu, Krysiu).
jakubzurawski - | 17  
17 Jul 2009 /  #11
It is true. Also when the stem of a feminine name ends with the letter "L" we use "-u" ending in the vocative:

Ela - Elu, Ola - Olu, Mariola - Mariolu.

With other feminine nouns ending with "L" it seems it's always "-o" like in "kula - kulo" (correct me if I'm wrong please.)

Michallikes
I think that these are in the imperative mode, correct me if I am wrong, explain to me why they are vocative please.

The vocative case is used whenever when you talk directly to some person. The imperative mood is just one of the examples of such situation. Others could be:

greetings - like "Dzień dobry ciociu"
yelling insults - "Ty debilu!"
questions - "Mamo o której wraca tata?"

Polonius3
"Szeregowcze, sprzątaj po sobie!"" is correct but you may see "Szeregowcu..."

Both forms sound correct to me when you talk about the soldier. "Szeregowiec" however has two meanings - "private" (in the army), and (I don't know how to name it) "a house which is standing in a row of houses which share their side walls". (you can google an image to see what I mean)

In the second case you should only use "-wcu" ending as the "-wcze" ending is used only with masculine people.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
1 Aug 2009 /  #12
Vocative refers only to nouns, not verb forms. The imperative mode refers only to verbs.
legdoctor 1 | 8  
1 Aug 2009 /  #13
hang the native speaker teachers !!!! 60 zloty for a one hour class is what they get paid to teach in warsaw, i know, i had the job for a while..... if only someone wud pay me to talk shite in ireland, im great at it!!!
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
1 Aug 2009 /  #14
I have some classes at 120pln an hour, it all depends on what the students need.

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