Language / Kids languages for mixed couples ? [26]


As far as i can tell the playground trumps all other linguistic concerns for children. I know of a couple of cases of children in Poland whose non-Polish parents didn't speak Polish to them at all (though they could speak it). Within a few months of starting to meet other children the kids become dominant in Polish (tv also helps with this, but it's the peer group that seems to be the single biggest factor).

Some influential language acquisition studies conducted in the suburban US (where kids got more input from the mother than all other people combined) have distorted how language acquisition has normally worked for most of human history. Basically in most cultures at most times children primarily learn to speak from other children (just as a large part of childcare was provided by other children). Input from the parents happens first, but it's not the most influential.

Work / Do I Need To Speak Polish To Get Around for 5 Weeks in Krakow [23]

You'll do okay short term. But if you decide to stay definitely learn Polish even if you don't get much encouragement from your co-workers (nothing says 'bad language teacher' quite like inability or unwillingness to learn a language).

Polish is tough at first, but rewards the persistent listener (and Poland in Polish is at least 10 times more interesting than Poland in English).

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

"You seems to changed your approach..."

Not really. I have my opinion about what people should do but I ultimately recognize that it's their choice. You don't and want to force your opinions on morality on others.

News / KRAUTS RESUME POLE-BASHING [60]


To play devil's (or Germans' - same thing) advocate: Anyone here ever heard of 'juma'?

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juma

"Słowo to wywodzi się z rejonów nadgranicznych i określało rodzaj przestępstwa polegający na kradzieży towarów w przygranicznych, niemieckich sklepach"

"The word comes from border areas and described a kind of crime related to stealing merchandize from German stores near the border" (nb this isn't shoplifting bread for hungry children, it's breaking and entering and grand larceny)

There was an article on this some years ago in Gazeta Wyborcza which described how juma was the major industry in large areas of the countryside near the border. Not too long after I had a (weekend) student from that part of the country and surprised her when I used the word (she hadn't realized I knew Polish). I asked if she knew people who did that and she said yeah, a lot of people in her village supported themselves that way and she didn't see anything wrong with it (they're only Germans, who cares what happens to them?).

I don't know if the situation had improved but when large numbers of people cross the border to commit crimes I think it's okay for the country in question to be upset about it - especially when the country where the criminals come from doesn't give a rat's ass.

This is not to say that there isn't stupid prejudice and jerks in Germany (and completely illegal linguisic prejudice supported by the courts), just that viewing German attitudes through the prism of 'they're all nazis and hate us' is no more productive than Germans thinking 'they're all thieves' about Poles.

Kumbayah......

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]


Yes, some women regret having abortions. For many the regret is transitory but for a tragic percentage (not the majority from any research I know of) it becomes a serious problem and the need counselling to work through it. But it's their problem, not yours, not mine. I believe in choice and I realize that means some women will make the wrong choice. Freedom isn't necessarily easy or hazard free.

A non-sentient non-viable fetus is not a baby and does not have the moral status of a baby and I know of no philosophical or ethical system that really thinks it is.

My own rubicon in terms of abortion is viability (roughly: the ability of the fetus to survive on its own without extraordinary medical intervention).

So, if for whatever reason a woman doesn't get an abotion by the time of viability (let's be conservative and say 20 weeks) then I don't think she should be allowed an abortion barring extreme extenuating circumstances (like the pregnancy being a physical danger to her health in which case I know of no one who thinks she should be compelled to carry to term).

Language / Does "hej" mean hello? [13]


bystra

as for hej, it's more a way of calling to someone to get their attention more than a greeting.

In modern Polish 'halo' (hallo?) works the same way, getting the attention of someone whose name you don't know.

hej is actually used more as a goodbye but usually not on its own. Often Polish people will string together three or more expressions when saying goodbye "na razie, cześć, pa, hej"

Language / Kids languages for mixed couples ? [26]

The generally accepted best way:

each parent speaks to the child primarily in their own language (and has the child respond in that language)

what's the distribution of three languages in this case? (that matters in terms of answers)

try to expose the child to monolinguals in both (or all three) languages so they have to respond in the various languages

yes, there is sometimes a delay in the onset of speaking with bilingual children, but they catch up (in both languages) quickly

Also, realize that the language of the playground trumps whatever mom and dad speak (and the language of school) and children will usually end up preferring to speak the language of the children they play with.

Language / Praca vs robota [16]

Of course they overlap and a lot of times you can use both, but I note that:

ciężki dzień w pracy : 53,500 google hits

ciężki dzień w robocie : 1100 hits

or

znaleźć robotę : 1200

znaleźć pracę : 205,000

Also go to google images and look at what kind of pictures show up for

robotnik (almost all shovels and hardhats)

pracownik (more people at desks)

Language / Praca vs robota [16]

I would call 'praca' and 'robota' rough synonyms.

That is, they have the same basic meaning and are sometimes interchangeable but often they aren't.

IME 'robota' maybe implies more physical and/or unskilled labor while office or skilled labor would more be 'praca'.

Also, robota can refer to a particular task in a way that praca can't.

If you're asking if someone is employed, you always use 'praca'. On the other hand, robota can refer to a temporary or one time job.

In the context of Londonczycy, robota makes sense because most Polish people think of their jobs there as more temporary rather than permanent.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

lesser, you're dodging the question.

Again, my primary concerns are minimalizing the traumatic effects of rape on the woman and minimalizing the reproductive success of rapists.

If that means terminating (killing) a non-sentient non-viable fetus, then so be it.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]


This is an old thread, and she did have the abortion in the end.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

What if your wife were raped? Would you raise the rapists' child?

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

In case of rape, I'm absolutely in favor of abortion.

Encouraging the woman to have the baby is rewarding the rapist by allowing him to pass on his genetic material to the next generation.

Life / HOW WIDESRPEAD IS RECREATIONAL DRUG USE IN POLAND? [30]


Actually I was referring to problem users (addicts) rather than occasional recreational users there, I could have been clearer.

Life / HOW WIDESRPEAD IS RECREATIONAL DRUG USE IN POLAND? [30]

Polish drug use tends to differ a lot from use in the US.

Two big differences:

1. more directly tied to problematic family relationships (this is the dark side of strong family ties, people expect too much from family members leading to mutual disappointment and resentment and parents often have trouble communicating with their kids in anything but orders and commands)

2. using uppers to study for exams like matura (and university finals) the Polish tradition is to goof off for most of the year and then cram like crazy for a week or two at the end, and amphetamines make that easier

Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]


"nie czytając żadnego artykułu" (they read = czytają)

or maybe even "nic nie czytając"

Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]


Pretty sure it's rzeczowniki odczasownikowe (the od- = from)


Very easy, only made from imperfective verbs and the process is easy.

present tense third person plural + c

mają = they have

mając = (while) having (while X-ing is not the only way to translate them but it's an easy way to distinguish them from other -ing forms in English).

mówią = they're speaking

mówiąc = while speaking

The single form is for all persons and numbers but the subject must be the same as another verb in the sentence.

Napisałem list słuchając muyki. or Sluchając muzyki napisałem list.

I wrote a letter while listening to music. or While listening to music I wrote a letter.

It's also possible with an infinitive as the other verb.

Also the negative form is equivalent to the English 'without X-ing'.

Jak znaleźć utwór nie znając autora ani tytułu.

How to find a song without knowing who wrote it or what it's called.

They're really not nearly as tough as they may seem at first.

Language / What is the name for "I would", is it conditional mood or something else? [12]

I find it's better to think of perfective and imperfective verbs as separate verbs. The traditional practice of pairing up verbs in 'aspect pairs' creates more problems for learners than it solves. I only began making real progress when I gave up that whole idea.

Language / What is the name for "I would", is it conditional mood or something else? [12]

It is the conditional.

One easy thing about Polish is that there's only one conditional (which also does duty as a subjunctive and some other stuff)

Also, Polish doesn't really distinguish between

"I would (and still might)" and "I would have (but now it's impossible)"

If I won the lottery I'd buy a new house. (and I might win the lottery in the future)

Gdybym wygrał w lotto, kupiłbym nowy dom.

If I had won the lottery, I've have bought a new house. (but it's too late, I didn't win)

Gdybym wygrał w lotto, kupiłbym nowy dom.

Nice to find something easy!

Life / Polish Birthday Party [10]

I'll also add that it used to common practice for the person whose name day it was to bring cakes (not a cake, but various kinds of Danish and cookies and other sweet baked goods) to work for co-workers (rather than the other way around).

Life / Polish Birthday Party [10]

traditionally AFAICT birthday parties as such did not exist (don't feel bad for Polish kids, they have plenty other occasions to get gifts).

Even namedays seems more for adults than kids (and the adult whose name day it was held a party or two which they paid for and usually didn't receive any more than symbolic gifts).

I wouldn't sweat it for a one year old, you have a few years to find some traditional Polish games and foods or whatever to integrate into her birthday parties).

Language / Polish vs. Romanian [21]


I'll just mention a quick thing or two.

Nouns have (in practical terms) just two cases (nominative-accusative and genetive-date, theoretically there's a vocative but it seems to be used even less than in Polish). And the case is indicated by the article not the noun form itself. For example:

băiat - boy (dictionary form)

un băiat (a boy nominative/accusative)

unui băiat (a boy genetive/dative)

băiatul (the boy, nominative/accusative) - masculine article -ul (the final -l is often dropped in pronunciation)

băiatului (the boy, genetive/dative) - masculine article -ului

Adjectives agree in number and gender but not in case (though sometimes an adjective will the case-bearing article instead of the noun).

There are also free standing articles that can help indicate case too but they're a little hard to explain here.

Here's a wiki link though the writing could be (a lot) clearer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_grammar

UK, Ireland / What are Polish Peoples Views of a Re-United Ireland [80]

I'm not Polish and I don't live in Ireland, but my prediction:

Most Polish people in both the Irish republic and Ulster really, really don't care.

Inside Poland, Poles have a reflex to support independence movements but it really only kicks in high gear when the independence movement is against an enemy (like supporting Chechens against Russia). To the extent that the reunification movement is perceived as damaging Britian, which is perceived as a longterm ally (rightly or wrongly) they don't care.

Also, the great majority of Poles who are now in Ireland are very apolitical and don't care about the government situation as long as they can make a living and save a few pounds.

Language / Polish vs. Romanian [21]

Not so much easier on the tongue but more shared vocabulary, especially after learning a few simple conversion rules.

Language / Polish vs. Romanian [21]


No. There's no real basis for declaring any modern Romance language as being 'closer to Latin' than any other. Each has features that make it closer or more distant from Latin. But most imporantly, it's not really a quantifiable distinction. For linguists it's a meaningless question.

(And the Romanian case system is completely different from that of Latin, knowing Latin won't help you with Romanian cases).

That said, for a westerner who knows something of a modern Romance language (any Romance language) Romanian is far easier than a Slavic language.
I've only been a couple of days in Romania but by the afternoon of the first day I could understand numbers when buying things and could ask a lot and understand a lot. My attempts at speaking were truly awful, but I was understood and Romanians were very helpful and kind with a foreigner willing to try to speak their language.

Short story - if you know any French, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese then Romanian is a walk in the park compared to a Slavic language. If you don't know a Romance language but know a Slavic language already then Polish isn't so hard. If you know both a Romance and Slavic language then Romanian will still be easier.

Travel / Travel Time By Train - Warsaw to Wroclaw. [15]

montse, bilet.intercity.pl/irez/

Language / words overused in Polish language [40]

bez sensu!

(just like this thread!)

Life / Tips on Polish television series? [3]

I don't know about ... interesting, but Polish soap operas in general are pretty easy to understand. Especially Klan (is it still around?) and M jak Miłość had/have characters with very clear enunciation who don't speak too fast and who stay clear of dialect and slang.

For smarter native speakers they're probably a little boring but for learners they're pure gold.

Also some of the Polish dubbed shows on kid networks (esp the Suite Life and Just add water) are easy enough to understand (though being aimed at children they might not be so interesting in non-linguistic content and being translated aren't always so completely natural Polish).

Genealogy / POLISH (-ski) and ENGLISH (of) = TOPONYMIC NICKS [18]

I think you mean 'family names' rather than nicknames.

Language / PRONUNCIATION OF ENGLISH WORDS IN POLAND [24]


And where are they going to find qualified native english speaking translators to do this?

There are native speakers of English who can and do translate from Polish to English (I like to think I'm one of them) but there aren't a lot of us and I can't think of a single one who does it for a living.

There are also problems of training (I'd love a super-advanced course to polish up my Polish a little but they don't exist at my level yet) and certification (important in a country that takes paper qualifications very seriously).

I'm a big believer in the idea that translations should be done only into the native language whenever possible but a lot of the time in Poland that's just not possible at present.


It's the price of popularity. Face it, the great majority of people who learn English as a foreign language don't much care for it as a language so getting little details right is generally not much of a priority. There's no such thing as effective mass learning of a foreign language.

I've also come across the attitude that correctness just doesn't matter in English. Polish (and German and Italian and whatnot) are real languages with standards that need to be met by learners, but any old crap slapped together is good enough for English.