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UPA barbarian murders on Polish and Jewish neighbors during WW2


JulietEcho 3 | 100  
22 Nov 2008 /  #1
bj.uj.edu.pl/~plok/genocide/index.html

Very interesting web site about ukraininan "friends". It is an outrage those ordinary murders and animals are still considered heroes in ukraine. Our president The Potato head in the name of political correctness keeps quiet and joins the ukaininan hunger recollection when his own nation's killers still unjustly walk around the globe impertinently asking Poland to condemn the "Wisla act"...

Please read. Every Pole should know about it.
Babinich 1 | 455  
22 Nov 2008 /  #2
I do not know what to say...
scorpio 20 | 188  
23 Nov 2008 /  #3
JulietEcho, yes, many horrible acts of murder have been committed during and after WWII by the Germans, Russians, and Ukrainians. Many Jewish people still claim that Poles committed crimes against them, and many Slavic Christians blame Jews for participating with the post war communist authorities for torture, death, deportation and suppression against their people.

I think who ever was individually responsible for any acts of crime should be punished. Entire nations, nationalities, or religions in the aggregrate should not be collectively responsible for the acts of individuals.

I am of both Polish and Ukrainian descent, Christian, born in the USA, and yet, am I responsible for the many bloody wars and conflict that took place between Poland and Ukraine? Absolutely not. I think a partial solution is constructive and honest dialogue between people and nations.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Nov 2008 /  #5
You can also read about it, albeit on a smaller scale, in The Pianist by Szpilman. The Ukrainians were brutal savages back then but please pinch yourselves to remind you that this was in the 1940's.
Babinich 1 | 455  
23 Nov 2008 /  #6


I am of both Polish and Ukrainian descent, Christian, born in the USA, and yet, am I responsible for the many bloody wars and conflict that took place between Poland and Ukraine? Absolutely not. I think a partial solution is constructive and honest dialogue between people and nations.

True... As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis once said: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant".
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Nov 2008 /  #7
Brandeis, I know him. He had a major say in one of the seminal firearms cases in America. The next time I fall when playing football, and graze myself, I'll be sure to look out for the sunlight. Hmm...I play at night time :(
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Nov 2008 /  #8
I am of both Polish and Ukrainian descent, Christian, born in the USA, and yet, am I responsible for the many bloody wars and conflict that took place between Poland and Ukraine?

You are not responsible, neither am I. I am like you, living in the US, my father's family are from Poland, we are ethnically mixed. Of course we living in the US are not responsible for the hatred and bigotry in Europe, even though our ancestors are from there. I know it's a strain, try not to let them upset you.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
23 Nov 2008 /  #9
hatred and bigotry in Europe

Many of your cmments here have been about "bigotry in Europe", yet you haven't checked out where many of the posters you are talking about are from.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Nov 2008 /  #10
I don't deny there are bigots in the US and all over the world. Europe has a more extreme form of it, these posts reflect that. You draw other extreme bigots from other parts of the world to this forum because of your past and current attitudes. Poland, as a nation, has such a bad reputation internationally and it's because of the attitude reflected here. Apparantly, Poland is well known for it, as a nation and it's disgusting.

You look sociopathic in the eyes of the world and it's because of your attitude toward those that suffered during WWII who happened to be Polish.

When Poland has a national election and in the papers all the candidates are discussing whether or not they have Jewish blood and declaring they do not, that attitude is petty and bigoted because most Poles are mixed race, slavic and jewish.

It's embarassing because we who live in the US get stereotyped as being like the bigoted poles in Europe who are so bigoted they cannot possibly face the fact they are mixed race, the candidates in that election proves it. It's ridiculous.
OP JulietEcho 3 | 100  
23 Nov 2008 /  #11
I am of both Polish and Ukrainian descent, Christian, born in the USA, and yet, am I responsible for the many bloody wars and conflict that took place between Poland and Ukraine? Absolutely not. I think a partial solution is constructive and honest dialogue between people and nations.

- Agreed. Victims on both sides cannot be forgotten. The political tone of dialogue between Poland and Ukraine right now seems to be: don’t bring up anything that will **** the Ukrainians off. I strongly disagree with such ideology, which only targets Russian destabilization. Many of those bestial killers are still alive, treated in Ukraine like the pure blood patriots and that is intolerable. If we can cooperate on the same level without forgetting anyone, that is fair, otherwise it’s another unhealthy relationship that will not work in the long run…
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,990  
23 Nov 2008 /  #12
Do you think holding up old grievances is good for long term relationships?

Poland already uses this to be hostile against Germany AND Russia...now Ukraine next? Do you really think it will help Polands current and future aims, their standing and influence in Europe?
miranda  
23 Nov 2008 /  #13
I think we already had similar threads, more than one for sure.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,990  
23 Nov 2008 /  #14
...but the polish/ukrainian spin is a new one...
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
23 Nov 2008 /  #15
that attitude is petty and bigoted because most Poles are mixed race, slavic and jewish

Wow now, wow.... please hold your horses...

What book did you read this in?
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Nov 2008 /  #16
Wow now, wow.... please hold your horses...

It's true! That is exactly WHY so many POLES have differences in their complexions. Some light, some dark, some in between . Mixed ethnicities. Accept.
miranda  
23 Nov 2008 /  #17
...but the polish/ukrainian spin is a new one...

what do you mean?

Most nations are mixed. Fact
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
23 Nov 2008 /  #18
That is exactly WHY so many POLES have differences in their complexions. Some light, some dark, some in between . Mixed ethnicities

lol...

Ok, somewhere along the line, you heard that Poles intermixed with Jews often. This is false. As long as Jews have been living in Poland, there has been very, very little intermixing. They kept to their own communities for hundreds of years, and that is why so many were easily picked out by the Germans when they invaded in '39. Most still had Jewish names, Jewish features.. etc. If they had been intermixing, don't you think that it would be just a tad harder for the Germans to find them out??

Dark complexions... mixed ethnicities, this is true. But please don't get Tatars mixed up with Jews. Many Tatars have assimilated into Poland over the years, and that accounts for a large percentage of Poles being olive skinned, slightly slanted eyes, etc. Especially around the Vistula River..

As well, there are many Russians, Ukrainians, you name it, that have been interbreeding with Poles on Polands eastern boarders for centuries. Many of these people possess Asian type features because of the proximity to the steppe.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,990  
23 Nov 2008 /  #19
what do you mean?

Thanks Celinski we know all about Katyn and the lingering grievances between Russia and Poland because of WWII, unforgotten are the Kaczynskies in using the WWII to bribe more influence in the EU, now some are eager to pull out skeletons out the closets with the Ukrainians, about 70 years after the deeds happened, against a now needed ally....what for I ask!

Most nations are mixed. Fact

I agree...
miranda  
23 Nov 2008 /  #20
now some are eager to pull out skeletons out the closets with the Ukrainians....what for I ask!

I have no idea, I guess it hasn't been resolved and JulietEcho is just interested in the subject and has a need to vent, while Kaczynski indeed went to Ukraine to celebrate the anniversary the Holod in 1932-33.
OP JulietEcho 3 | 100  
23 Nov 2008 /  #21
Do you think holding up old grievances is good for long term relationships?

So, you think we should just forget about it?
Its ok to falsify history only so you don’t offended someone? Maybe someone did not grow up to participate in an open dialogue?
Besides, try explaining your theories to the Jewish that run around Krakow with their eyes washed up, referring to everyone as The Goy pigs and occasionally having Mosad illegally attacking Polish bystanders.

Kaczynski indeed went to Ukraine to celebrate the anniversary the Holod in 1932-33.

The Duck popularity by now pretty much equals to zero or is negative, so just keep him in ukraine...Im sure he will fit in well with your citizens; of course he might make an easy target for your heroes one night, as all the Polish by now are gone and your country still isnt getting any better.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,990  
23 Nov 2008 /  #22
So, you think we should just forget about it?

Who is talking about forgetting.
But there is a difference between...say...building memorials and teaching the kids and pointing the finger at today's Ukraine!

You see what the remembrance industry get's the Jews...they are mighty unpopular with nearly everybody!
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Nov 2008 /  #23
I agree with BB, it's not a case of forgetting, more about manipulating it til time immemorial. The Duck Brothers really poured it on thick to extract concessions in the EU.

The whole raison d'etre of the EU is to build on solidarity and strengthen ties. Pointing fingers, especially at Ukraine in today's current climate, would be counterproductive. Bear grudges silently and let governments build on cordial cooperation.
OP JulietEcho 3 | 100  
23 Nov 2008 /  #24
building memorials and pointing the finger at today's Ukraine!

- Well there arent any memorials of that act in ukraine...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Nov 2008 /  #25
Hello, this is 2008, hello
miranda  
23 Nov 2008 /  #26
The Duck popularity by now pretty much equals to zero or is negative, so just keep him in ukraine...Im sure he will fit in well with your citizens; of course he might make an easy target for your heroes one night, as all the Polish by now are gone and your country still isnt getting any better.

OK.

The whole raison d'etre of the EU is to build on solidarity and strengthen ties. Pointing fingers, especially at Ukraine in today's current climate, would be counterproductive. Bear grudges silently and let governments build on cordial cooperation.

agree, it is all about timing. Juliet is in the US, so she is not really concerned since she will not be feeling the outcomes of Polish foreign politics.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Nov 2008 /  #27
Ok, somewhere along the line, you heard that Poles intermixed with Jews often. This is false. As long as Jews have been living in Poland, there has been very, very little intermixing. They kept to their own communities for hundreds of years,

Check out this link... polish-jewish-heritage.org/Eng/08_02_Israels_chief_rabbi_in _Poland.html
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
23 Nov 2008 /  #28
now Ukraine next?

Do you have any idea what you are talking about ?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
24 Nov 2008 /  #29
Thanks Celinski we know all about Katyn and the lingering grievances between Russia and Poland because of WWII, unforgotten are the Kaczynskies in using the WWII to bribe more influence in the EU, now some are eager to pull out skeletons out the closets with the Ukrainians, about 70 years after the deeds happened, against a now needed ally....what for I ask!

Your welcome. :) What took place 70 years ago has been brought up between Poland and Ukraine. This was put on hold due to the fact that Poland had invested many hours looking into and documenting the past and Ukraine said they needed to do the same.

In order for open honest relationships in the future to be strong, the past must be dealt with. If it was not for Poland being silenced for 70 years this would be dealt with and healing would already have taken place.
Prince 15 | 590  
24 Nov 2008 /  #30
agree, it is all about timing. Juliet is in the US, so she is not really concerned since she will not be feeling the outcomes of Polish foreign politics.

agree :)

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