Russia to outlaw criticism of WWII tactics

look at 4 min 45 second brain. This time when you watch , listen.

You are lying. It says that AK soldiers were killed by the Red Army, we all knew that already. It says nothing about what you claim it does. Stop with the lies Carol.


The USAAF did not make hundreds of flights: they made a single mission.

However,


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_uprising

In addition to 1568th Polish Flight, No. 148 and No. 178 RAF Squadrons and No. 31 and No. 34 Squadrons of the South African Air Force made supply flights.

I believe Stalin would not let them use the air field. Did you see the part about Soviets killing Polish, I was waiting for you to say, Sorry I called you a lier Carol.

233 sorties? Thats nothing both in terms of supplies and flights, 4000 containers? In terms of both RAF capability to supply and the demands thats token support, just about enough to say "we did help" but nowhere near the amount required or even noticeable.

So yeah Allies did not help except for a token symbolic support.

Also nice for you to come forth with a number, i knew it but i wanted you yourself to dispel those magical "hundreds":)

And when Churchill proposed sending planes anyway (on the basis that the Russians would not mistreat British & American airmen), FDR told him the USA wasn't interested in doing that.


The film says nothing about Poles escaping from tunnels and being shot by the Red Army as they came out. You are a pathetic liar Carol.

Harry I even gave you the min to go to are you really drinking this early in the am? I believe FDR and Churchill tried to convince Stalin.

4:55 To the east Soviets were doing the same ( on shooting Poles ) please pay attention or was the english too difficult?:)

I do not lie Harry and if I make a mistake I admit it. Sorry you are very wrong and you might want to follow the link I gave and watch all 5 they will update you for our future conversations.

And by the way Harry, here in the USA the children are the only ones that use terminogy such as "liar", you might try saying, I think you are wrong or I believed.... vs making people think you are an uneducated fool.

Harry,

It might be time to bring out: Terminological Inexactitude.

You are entirely wrong. Read the telegraphs FDR and Churchill exchanged.

There was more than one telegraph. Yes, they let Stalin have his way just as they did on giving him Poland. If you go to FDR's library they have the org. documents and it shows what was said behind closed doors. Just as it address "Katyn" and not dealing with Russia on this crime. They knew what Stalin was pulling. Look here is an American,

Churchill wrote


FDR replied


warsawuprising.com/doc/Roosevelt_Churchill_Stalin_print.htm

I've listened again to the clip you posted: it say nothing about escaping Poles being shot by the Red Army as they emerged from sewers. I have lived in Warsaw for more than 12 years now Carol, I know the geography of the city fairly well: there is no way that any escaping Poles were shot by the Red Army as they emerged from sewers. Just look at a map of the city!

4:55 To the east Soviets were doing the same its there.

The fulll quote is “While the remaining insurgents converged on the city centre to the west, the Germans were arresting and shooting underground survivors. Shockingly, to the east the Soviets, supposed allied to the Poles were doing the same thing.” They were shooting surviving members of the underground movement. The Soviets could not have been shooting survivors of the Uprising who were underground for the very simple reason that the Soviets were not in the places where the Uprising had taken place!

Look at this map en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warszawa_Powstanie_1944-08-04.jpg Note how many areas of AK control were on the right bank of the Wisla. None! There were no Russian troops on the left bank: they were all on the right bank. That is why they didn’t join the fighting (or one of the reasons anyway). I don’t know how to make this any simpler to you Carol. If you are mistaken, you are staggeringly stupid. If you are not, you must be a liar. And before you call me uneducated, please note how the word ‘liar’ is spelt: there is no ‘e’ in it.

Carol, he gets hung up like that on every thread. He takes some minute detail and holds his ground. Perhaps in this case his objective is to show the Soviets were good. He always has a motive.

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Not that far away, if you watch this the Polish could see the Soviet/Red army just across the Vistula river would come to their aid. In the end of this it tells of what took place if they tried to help, on the one we have posted it tells they would shoot their own.

see 2:41 Mokotow where they went in.

Like I said Carol, come to Warsaw, have a look for yourself and then we'll talk. You think the Soviets had snipers on the river bank waiting to shoot anything that moved on the other bank? Well the clip that you hold to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth says "the Germans were arresting and shooting underground survivors. Shockingly, to the east the Soviets ... were doing the same". Please explain how the Soviets were able to arrest people who emerged from tunnels on the opposite side of the river from them. Do you even know how wide the Wisla is as it runs through Warsaw?

see 2:41 Mokotow where they went in. This is the first You tube.

2nd look at 1:00 min. they were in the sewers for 20 hours in Old Town. At 3:00 min. you will see where Stalin refuses to allow Brits and USA to help.


I guess I know this but facts don't lie, beautiful picture, thanks :)

Carol: the sewers in Warsaw do not run under the Wisla. Mokotow is on the left bank, so is the city centre. The Soviets were on the right bank. Mokotow is not next to the river and the river at that point is about 450 metres wide.


Nice point. But the Uprising finished on 2 October 1944 and the Soviets entered the Old Town in mid January 1945. So the Poles would have needed to be down the sewers for slightly more than 20 hours in order be shot by the Soviets when emerging.


Yes it is a nice statue but what does Antek have to do with your lies?

look at the map on 1st tube, just about, this map also was has a circle connecting sewer vs. yours. They went in the sewer just after the only US flight in and that was Sept. 17, 1944.

This was reported to both US and Brits and Stalin did not deny so why is this so hard to believe. They went into the sewers and headed toward center of city as it was still in Polish hands, not toward Wisla.

Soviets were fighting Nazis and you don't think they were able to reach Polish?

Well Sokrates here's something new you can learn today about one such Soviet 'liason officer' from someone who met him face-to-face during the Rising:

Fighting Warsaw by Stefan Korboński last Chief of the Polish Wartime Undergound
page 386.

"...An early sensation was the arrival of a Captain of the Soviet Intelligence Service, Constanty Kalugin, who reported to the High Command of the Rising. On August 5th he sent a telegram via London to Stalin asking for help. I also read his appeal to German units formed of Soviet soldiers who had been taken prisoner-of-war; urging them not to take part in the fighting against the Rising on pain of death. The telegram Kalugin sent to Stalin received no reply."

Andrzej Ulankiewicz a former solider of AK battalion 'Parasol' defending the Cherniakow bridgehead now living in USA mentions fighting alongside a soldier of Berling's Polish Army (WP) in his unpublished memoir 'Parasol'. You could contact him via the Warsaw Rising museum if you would like him to confirm this directly to you.

That AK battalion 'Parasol' was linking up with Berling's Polish Army is mentioned in passing on warsawuprising.com/witness.htm

Korboński also records Berling sending two battalions of Polish 1st Corps across the Vistula to the Cherniakow bridgehead only for most of them to be cut down by German machine gun fire. Fighting Warsaw-page 388.


You have obvioulsy not read any of the records so you just mouth another dumb statement.

As much as it pains me, I have to say Harry is right on this one small detail.[feeling pain]. The murderous Soviets were on the other side of the river watching to Poles get slaughtered. The Soviets also made some supply drops; they were without parachutes.

No one is disagreeing, however we are saying that Soviets murdered Home Army soldiers that they found, both those that crossed the river and those already present on the other side.

Harry is the one who invented Vistula tunnels:)

Perhaps this is a language issue—sewers being underground therefore the shooting of survivors was underground in the sewers as opposed to shooting "the underground" survivors— don't be too harsh it is a simple mistake to make :-)))

This is correct and I also stand corrected, it states that surivors from the underground were ....

no river crossing is ever "pathetically easy"witness soviet crossing of the oder and approach to the seelow heights......... Besides,stand on the west bank and look DOWN on the east bank,not only a river crossing but a scramble up hill that would have made Omaha look like a stroll down venice beach......


They might not have been shot as they came out the tunnels by the frontoviks but once in say Praga the NKVD did donate 21 grammes of nagant lead to any Officers or NCOs in the AK or other non communist groups.

Well, using spotlights to signal your approach in addition to blinding the yourself because of the reflection due to the dust cover didn't help.

It also worked against Soviets that the Germans were heavily armed and firing from the high ground.