Poles executed in Warsaw '1939-44'

you crack me up. which must surely be an indication of my dull and boring lifestyle.


no magda. YOU brought them up


yes magda, perceptions of WWII poland have changed. whilst you were busy being a communist in soviet occupied poland, the rest of europe viewed poland as a hard-done-by country that had been occupied by the nasty pole killing nazis.

but then when the rest of europe was able to take a closer look they started to discover a different story. all of which was vehemently denied by the poles... despite evidence to the contrary (nobody likes a liar either ozi d fyr).

so poland continues to present its version of events and those that know the poles know there might be some truth in it... and then again there might not. but even if there isnt, theyll convince you that there is

Didn't you quote (in another thread) some well know Poles who did quite the opposite?

Again and again you look at one side of things while conveniently forgetting about the other. Jedwabne means that Poles (all Poles?) killed Jews. Zegota or about half of names being those of Polish catholics in Yad Vashem means, of course, that such acts of self sacrifice and risk were isolated, huh?

Way to go, "historian". Or would "histerian" be a better word?

how can the other side be forgotten when it is repeatedly pushed in our faces?

i dont really care if poles killed jews or jews killed poles or nazis killed either or both. it was a long long time ago and i am much more concerned by the needless killing that is going on in the world today

if i am to make a point here rather than just waffling for the sake of it whilst i wait for the waitress to bring me another cold beer, the point would be that it is very difficult for the polish nation to hold their hand up and admit any wrong doing. this is the point that most people are making when you perceive them as attacking you

you see this is what i mean, arguing about the past!!!!! What is the point, whats done is done. I hope this type of discussion dosen't dog the Polish family dinner table, pppffff.

This is exactly why people need to move on, people one or two generations down the line are arguing the toss about 'HISTORY' when really there are more contempary issues that could be discussed or even acted upon.

There is a day of rememberance November the 1st i think Magda said so why not leave all this bull till then and remember and respect the fallen, instead of looking for somebody to blame. Some of the people will be turning in their graves, it seems many have forgotten 'those who died' and are more interested in 'who was responsible for killing them'

This was not always the case "Communist Poland" the Polish were not to speak of Soviet crimes. So as for Polish moaning, they could not even speak truth about the death of loved ones. Where anyone gets off saying Polish moan is full of it.


You sure don't know when to "shut Up". I can tell you never had a family member vanish from the face of the earth. I guess what your saying is looking for information on our loved ones is moaning, guess what, we didn't get a chance to give them a proper burial and a grave site to pay respect and put flowers. Maybe just maybe we can stop looking for them. May they Rest in peace.

I would like to say thank you for taking your time "Ozi Dan" and looking up my family.

Which side do you mean?

See, over 60 years after WW2 it appears that anything that happened between 1939 and 1945 was just a backdrop to the plight of the Jews. It wasn't. In fact Jewish organizations lay pretty low until late 1960's. The further away from the end of WW2 we get, the more holcaust survivors there are. Poor souls hardly see any dollar from class lawsuits on their behalf though. The money goes... exactly, where does it go?


Agreed. Some will never admit any guilt for a good reason, some... just because they won't or because they are in fact antisemites. None of the cases is a typically Polish feature, so why say "Poles" or "Polish nation".


I know you may be wondering why that is. Look at the way you formulate your statements about atrocities against Jews that some Poles may have committed. It does sound like you are attacking me too - Poles this and Poles that. Which Poles? Not me. Not my family. Not anybody I know in Poland. In fact the reason why some of my family members where in nazi concentration camps (including Auschwitz) was because of one little Jewish boy they hid in their barn. As a kid I was taught by my mom (a staunch catholic) to lay flowers and light a candle on graves in a Jewish cemetery in Pinczow because "the poor souls have noone to pray for them, but they suffered so much".

This is where I come from, and this is where Polish nation comes from. It hosted Jews who had been continually persecuted by all other nations (including yours) so they came to Poland and lived there for generations, with few problems, until Poland was partitioned and under foreign rule of one variety or another for nearly 200 years.

What you continue to refer to as the "Polish nation" was in fact a very small minority of people to be found in any country, including yours - racists, supremacists and plain bandits. That is wrong, and that is where you err and pis.s off those who do not deserve to be exposed to your thoughtless drivels.

Pogroms took place in post WW2 for the next few years. Most had nothing to do with Jews but in fact it was about Poles against those who collaborated with the Germans. These are things people do not read a whole lot about in history manuals, but they happened. I know personally about at least a dozen of such people in the villages my parents come from. They were poles killed in 1945/46 and never accounted for. It was a real war that lasted past 1945.

Have you ever heard any protests about more than 20 people killed in 1945 by the villagers in Bogucice, or 15 killed in Krzyzanowice? Both of these in... Kielce area. I'm sure though you did hear about the Kielce pogrom. The only difference between the former two and the latter is that in Kielce the victims were Jews, while in the others they were Poles.

Sure, it wasn't legal to kill a bunch of collaborators without trial, but mob psychology took over, people were angry after years of suffering, after loosing their husbands, wifes and children. They took revenge.

In post WW2 everybody was a potential victim. Many lived in fear for a decade to come. An uncle of mine, an AK soldier who escaped from a transport to Siberia in 1946, lived under a false name until 1956, and even after that he wasn't to open about his fight against the Germans. He wasn't a Jew but he feared for his life for most of his years after WW2.

When WW2 broke out and in the years and months leading to it few of the moral high horse countries wanted to have anything to do with Jews. Look how many Jews could have been saved if, for instance, Canada accepted more than just 5 thousand of them.

If you want to be taken seriously, then take a serious and fair, not hateful, approach to the nation that is now hosting you. Your continuing wholesale attacks on "Polish nation" beg for one suggestion - get out of the country that you consider so unfriendly and self centered and go where Jews were never persecuted. I guess that would leave very few options for you, wouldn't it? Unless you like really, really cold climates.

I have nothing to apologize for and I'm sure most of the Polish participants of this forum have the moral right to sleep well at night.

well it seems that most of my posts have passed you over mate, i congratulated the OP for posting his message, i think you'll find that i was commenting on something that Magdalena said :)

as for having somebody vanish of the face of the earth, death yes, a lot of it actually but still thats not my point. Your chasing shadows that are over 60 years old, can't you see its affecting the rest of your life, this continual moaning about who did what and when they did it.

just out of interest darius, as a pole, do you ever wonder why you dont get the respect you feel you deserve?

We are in the Polish Politics and History section. History - a global shadow-chasing campaign? It sounds rather nifty, actually. But seriously, if someone chases shadows it's because they desperately need closure. Native Americans campaign for their ancestors' bones to be taken from museums and buried with respect. Is this so different?


Might be some truth in it... My, how generous you are! And how objective in your pursuit of historical truth! Congratulations.

No, I don't wonder about it because I do get respect from people who know me, thank you.

splendid.

are they toilet cleaners too?

See? WTF kind of argument is that? Is that all you could squeeze out of the few grams of organic matter inside your skull?

Remember, often words you say about others say more about you than about them. Your bottomlessly pointless and stupid posts are a perfect illustration of that.

Asking a question does not mean we are moaning. Yes it sucks to find loved one like this but since we search and want to know it is more help than you will ever know.

I think many that "moan, *****, rant or rave" are looking for the truth in history. We have that right. Our families served, loved and died for Poland. Being silenced gave others the full access to tell our history. Now that we are free we can set the record straight. I bet when this is done we can sit back and have a drink and know our job is done.

what kind of fool would think that was anything more than a quick antagonistic jibe. ffs dazza - get with the programme!!!

There is no programme. You need to ask your shrink to review the meds you're on.

But earlier on, I was very offensive and what else, arrogant if I remember right? And I didn't even call anyone a toilet cleaner. Seems like a classic example of double standards. Of course I am nit-picking now, but hell, it's fun. You are wonderfully uncoordinated and muddled in your argumentation, if I may have the honour of complimenting you.

you obviously havent cottoned on dazza - the programme goes a little something like this -

1. pole talks shite

2. brit tells pole they are talking shite

3. pole denys everything

4. brit takes p!ss out of pole

wake up dude


see?

magda gets it

May? May? Even now you still talk about it being a possibility that Poles committed crimes against Jews? And you wonder why Poles as a nation don't get the respect they deserve....

you seem to think that your the only one with a problem along with your country, my family lost at least three people in bomber command over the campaign. All three bodies were never recovered and we don't have closure. As a family we accept that in times of war people die or are killed, we will never be able to give those three members a proper berial but it does not mean we don't think of them or pay respects to them. What we don't do is chase shadows and scream down the house. Nobody in our family is bitter to the Germans who probably shot them down or had something to do with the dissaperance/death of our family members. Its about remembering the people personaly than lambasting the Germans about who did what and when.


you know as well as i do the job will never be done, due to the fact so many people are pushing for so many unrealistic targets, one of a number of things i've learned about at university (SMART Targets) this stands for Specific, Measureable, Achievable, Realistic and Timely) I don't believe your targets are any of the above. Your continuation will only drown you and others who continue on and on and on dragging out history, after all its HISTORY!!!!


really you think its that global???? what all the countries around the world are that bothered?? hopefully even in my life time as generations move on this can be left behind us and once every year we can take a step back and remember our fallen, have a drink to them, respect them and thank them for their service or simply recognise their passing. I hope one day this will be a real life possibility instead of this constant dragging of heels to moving on.

T

Can't Poles talk about their history on PF ? Why when we talk about Warsaw somebody is talking about Jews or living in the past and that Poles should move forward.

It is Polish history section and it is our history.

this questions been answered sunshine. wake up or people will start taking the p!ss

lol, what i find so funny is that you just want to talk about death and destruction all the time and how bad it was for Poland and make it out that to be Polish is an awful thing when it comes to History. I don't see many topics relating to 'good/positive Polish history' why???? because you lot are a bunch of pessimist who want to run over the same things again and again and again, why not make the forums brighter with a bit of positive stuff instead of drowning in your own self pitty.

Warsaw during World War II (nice one)



First days of the Warsaw Uprising

I didn't know I said that, where? Read the topic.

WTF are you talking about ? This is Polish Politics & History section.

Warsaw Uprising The Phoenix Rises Again



Warsaw Uprising 1944 - shortcuts form movies
enjoy music

oh yes, there is


see, Europe did. There are certain people with certain background, that literally LIVE in the past, because that's where the money is, and they will never, EVER allow anybody to not talk about it.


I think they did




You know the concept action->reaction, right?


Exactly!
Who whines and moans around, really?
One special nation whines for years and each whining is ended up with 'give me more money'.

Oh, Germans were so bad, blah blah - give me more money. Oh, they've already paid? Ok. Swiss were so bad... Oh, they have paid, too?!

Ok, let's find another target.

And it's all about the money.



And when they do attack Poland and the Poles, the latter would alway say: hold on a moment! We DID die, we WERE the victims!

You can call it moanings, but THIS moaning never ends up with 'give me more money' phrase.

Where is Singer right now? Why holokaust survivers are living in poverty while Bronfman is flying around with his private jet to attend another conference of WJC?

Nothing funny about it really. If you study the history, as in "Polish Politics & History" Poland was about death and destruction. I suggest you go to another area on the forum as Poland is not going to lie and say Nazi's brought us flower as Soviets came with wine.

regardless of what it is 'Gregorz' this section wouldn't be full if there were not so many people wanting to talk about this sort of history, it dosent matter where we are its the fact so many want to talk about this negative negative negative history all the time. My god some of you people are going to die of depression!!!


of course there is nothing funny about the actual tragic history, i wasn't saying that. It was the fact that all the history talked about on this forum is just sad sad sad cry cry cry stuff. History is more than that.


really so there is not good polish history what so ever?? pull the other one you pessimistic pole :)


you make me laugh, the Soviet Union dosen't even exist anymore and as for the Nazi German Government uuuuummmm thats gone too. so like those movements or former states, WHY DON'T YOU MOVE ON AND EVOLVE INSTEAD OF DEBATING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AND NEVER GETTING ANYWHERE. It's ok to lick each others backsides and cry into the same tissues but for goodness sake respect those who died and move on!!!!!!!!!!!!

T :)

Torn, get a life... really...