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Panslavic vision of Poland.


Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #1
Or should I say a Russian vision of Poland ?

ste-pan.livejournal.com/169039.html

Look at this map - a poster printed on behave of Russian panslavists on the Eve of of Romanoffs' Empire total collapse .
Greater Serbia and even some tiny Czech Republic are given independent existence.
But not Poland.
Poland should expand Westwards what finally happened 1945 but only as an autonomic part of Russia.
I have not enough time and English language skills to translate the Russian text.
But believe me - hipocrysy second to none !
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #2
Boria, I've made some inquiry and it appears that you've broadcast quite similar stories about "friends from mongolian steppes" coming regularly to your dreams at least since 2003. So that last year I should have probably congratulated you with the 5th anniversary of your hatemonger activity. Anyway it's perhaps a good time to ask if the intermediate total justified the means or not? Do you realize that you look not whit better than those with the imperialistic mind?

But believe me - hipocrysy second to none !

Hypocrisy? It's not a relevant word I guess. Quite the contrary they're straightforward and sincere, yet imperialistic and maybe ill-minded. They suggest that Poland keeps its independence under the protection of Russia (as opposite to the current NATO treaty), moreover as you noticed Poland withdraws some of her lands back.

What is probably good to mention as well... if one painted Poland on the actual map star-spangled, nobody would feel the difference.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #3
you've broadcast quite similar stories about "friends from mongolian steppes" coming regularly to your dreams at least since 2003

Oh well ... does it makes my stories less true ?

under the protection of Russia

You obviously still don't believe we don't like any kind of Russian protection ?
On the contrary according to the polls about 80% Poles are for the NATO membership.
Take it for granted no anti-US revolt in our future lol.

As for the average Russian attitude towards Poland:
Once my Russian friend ( or something like that) asked me - why the hell you always looked for some independent Poland ?
You are welcome as a part of our empire !
No comments.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #4
Oh well ... does it makes my stories less true ?

You always have a choice on what to spread. Everybody has its family skeleton to be revealed. Nor Poland is an exception.
Secondly the very same fact could be shaped differently by different people and the way how other will finally get it strongly depends on its shape.

You obviously still don't believe we don't like any kind of Russian protection ?

Me? I don't care about who you want to be protected by. I clarified the idea of the map printed in 1913-1917 or so.

You didn't like Soviets but the USSR collapsed long ago. However you like the US-NATO protection which in fact doesn't change anything.

Take it for granted no anti-US revolt in our future lol.

Who knows, who knows? :) History fetches a circuit. Maybe you'll witness days of good Russia and bad US in Poland.This won't alter things in Poland though.

Once my Russian friend ( or something like that

If he's none of your friend why you gives a sh!t about what he says?
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #5
You didn't like Soviets

I do not like Russian imperialism and just referring to the map makes a good example of it.
Tiutchev wanted Russia to the Elbe river, those panslavists to Oder only but the general approach has not changed at all, be it Romanoffs, be it Stalin or Putin.

Only your possibilities are not the same anymore.
Look at your ex-Soviet neighbors - they are running away from you but you're still dreaming your imperial dreams.
Ehhh..
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
31 Jan 2009 /  #6
;) Actually I see quite opposite prospect in Russian cities. Despite the collapse of SU, there are alot of visitors here.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #7
Look at your ex-Soviet neighbors - they are running away from you but you're still dreaming your imperial dreams.

Too easy to be true. Firstly that's wrong to assert everybody's running. If you check better there you may find the followers of that crazy idea even in nowadays Poland (in asylum perhaps or wherever) to say nothing about the former USSR countries. Secondly everybody wants to be the boss, not to share the power. Thirdly you (or should I say particularly you) would be dreaming imperial dreams as well, if your country was an Empire by the date of your birth.Too bad it wasn't...

Tiutchev wanted Russia to the Elbe river, those panslavists to Oder only but the general approach has not changed at all, be it Romanoffs, be it Stalin or Putin.

What makes you feel it stays the same? Are there any maps produced of the same kind as you found? Do we attack Poland? It seems like you badly want to be attacked or threatened by Russia or otherwise your mood at least turns bad for that day.

I do not like Russian imperialism and just referring to the map makes a good example of it.

It's 100 years old. What does it have to do with the actual reality?

Only your possibilities are not the same anymore.

There're ups and downs, probably some time later you'll occupy us and create another "Katyn" (which we actually have in plenty but don't cry aloud about them) for us... and there will be Poland (ta-da!!!) making panslavic dreams come true.
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #8
Interesting Russian show here - Borrka/Sasha.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #9
Think you should have put India out of the list above.
It's not problem... it's a time for Russia to think about it's citizens and about herself. I personally don't want Russia to be the empire. Like Swedes said... "thank you Russia for our defeat in Poltava... you didn't allow us to become the Empire".

Edit: Crap... Prince... I can't catch you up permanently altering your posts.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #10
What makes you feel it stays the same?

I’ve got my hair, got my head
I’ve got my brains, got my ears,
I’ve got my eyes, got my nose
I've got my radio and TV and my internet acces as well...

But it's enough to quote this posting one can see under the map:
Но в общем хорошая карта, к этому и надо стремиться.

I know your people and I know your country.
No need to name "personalities" like Dugin, Natalia Narochnitskaya, Muchin etc.etc.
But don't tell me they are not the mainstream of Russian politics or history.
Neither was Lenin.
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #11
Think you should have put India out of the list above.

Let it be so :)

I personally don't want Russia to be the empire.

It would be great to see peaceful Russia. It would be great opportunity for whole region. :) But Russia has her ambitions...
Crnogorac3 2 | 1,348  
31 Jan 2009 /  #12
Greater Serbia

Srbija do Tokija!

1

gov.me/img/1156786381.jpg
gov.me/img/1156786252.jpg

Nas i Rusa 300 miliona...

:)))
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #13
Nas i Rusa 300 miliona...

Thumbs up, brate!
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #14
Thumbs up! this map posted by Serb is honest ilustration of Russian Pan Slavizm. :)

We can also see loster who sold his country comapnies for peanuts.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #15
Prince

Rub your eyes buddy. Don't you see what I cited. Join us.. Rus, Serb i Poljak (and all other Slavs) bratja navek (zauvek). *cheers, na zdorovje* Our beer, your peanuts...
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #16
bratja navek

Sorry but the correct version should be
"Ruskii s Kitajtsom bratya navek, Stalin i Mao vstrechayut nas!"
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #17
Rub your eyes buddy. Don't you see what I cited. Join us.. Rus, Serb i Poljak (and all other Slavs) bratja navek (zauvek). *cheers, na zdorovje* Our beer, your peanuts...

But I am worried that durring WWI most Poles were on Central Powers side to moment when Russia was on the knees.

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/history/pilsudski-elite-formation-30171/

At a meeting in Paris in 1914, Piłsudski presciently declared that in the impending war, for Poland to regain independence, Russia must be beaten by the Central Powers (the Austro-Hungarian and German Empires), and the latter powers must in their turn be beaten by France, Britain and the United States

As he have said ... so he have done.

Because map posted by this Serb is form WWI.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #18
I've got my hair, got my head

You've got your delusions and your one-sided view also. Perfect. I'm not gonna take it away as that shouldn't any hinder our Slavic company.

Would you mind joining us too? Btw what's your real name if not a secret? :) And what Borrka means?

As he have said ... so he have done. Russia to be beaten first... then Germany.

Did I get your message right? You don't want to be my friend anymore... :(((
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #19
Did I get your message right? You don't want to be my friend anymore... :(((

I wouldn't like to be Russian or member of your empire.

I can be your friend :)

It is about Polish national identity.

Slideshow of photos of Polish Legions from the First World War

It is good that Serb brought this map with noticable borders after partitions. That was Russian panslavism.

Polish national hero - Piłsudski.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
31 Jan 2009 /  #20
Srbija do Tokija!

See? That's a famous Serbian slogan. It wasn't me who'd said it. :)
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #21
But it is you whou uses different kinds of nick names and starts such debates.

So to begin with.

Paritions ... Somehow Poland after many uprises had chance durring WWI.

Ribbentrop Molotov. Russians with Nazi Germsn invaid Poland. What is more they murder as German Nazis murdered...

Later they had war against Germany but at the end of this war they don't forget to expel Poles from Lwów. Of course many Polish underground soldiers who fought against Nazi Germans were murdered by Russian NKVD.

That is Pan Slavic history of this region.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
31 Jan 2009 /  #22
We shouldn't cherish the hope of peaceful existance Poland with Russia. And I prefer Poland to be reduced again, preferably by Germans.
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #23
And I prefer Poland to be reduced again, preferably by Germans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

The Sino-Soviet border conflict of 1969 refers to a series of armed border clashes between the Soviet Union and People's Republic of China at the height of the Sino-Soviet split. The most serious of these border clashes occurred in March 1969 in the vicinity of Zhenbao Island (珍宝岛) on Ussuri River, also known as Damanskii Island (Остров Даманский) in Russian.

Now you have peace but China is stronger and stronger ... and giving them small parts of Syberia as it was in last years can be not enought.
Piorun - | 658  
31 Jan 2009 /  #24
Interesting, I found a similar map published in 1942 but completed even before U.S entry into the WWII. Published in Philadelphia by unknown authors titled Post-War New World Map. It’s amazing how close to reality it was, post war period. Seems that geopolitical think tank in both camps have a totally different view of the world than people realize. Amazing how economic strategies of today’s politics still try to steer the world in this direction with few modifications of course. There’s no room for Slavs in either camp. Just make the map larger and read the footnotes, reach your own conclusion.

history.sandiego.edu/gen/maps/1900s/1942world4000.jpg
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
31 Jan 2009 /  #25
Well ... Germans call it "Hass Liebe Beziehung"...
I do love Russian culture.
I do love Russian music.
My first books was Dostoyevski in Russian.
(I was pervert)
But sorry guys ... your politics...

PS. Sasha, Borrka is just my nick and my true name is Boris lol.
Prince 15 | 590  
31 Jan 2009 /  #26
Well America doesn't have allies, America has interests...

So Poland had interests not allies durring WWI.

WWI. Firstly with Central Powers against Russians ... after Russian defeat with French against Central Powers.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
31 Jan 2009 /  #27
I don't like Russian literature
I don't like Russian music
But I do applaude Russian policy and valour.

Borrka, are you jew?
Only Russian or Jew can bear such peculiar name.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Jan 2009 /  #28
So, you prefer the romanticism of Piłsudski to the nationalism of Dmowski, Prince?
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
2 Feb 2009 /  #29
Kostik, according to my best knowledge I'm Polish.
I'm busy now but one day I have to visit Mother Mary of Czestochowa in order to thank I'm not Russian.
Actually my family was close to rusification.
But it's a long story.

Borrka is a web myth or wannabe myth.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
2 Feb 2009 /  #30
moreover as you noticed Poland withdraws some of her lands back.

And how do they feel about Poland hating them ? Because that element of russian mentality is perceived as infantile and uncivilized, that kind of barbarians were responsible for all the shame and indignity that the history of Russia is.

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