An Example of Falsifying Historical Facts and Degrading Poland

Easy_Terran 3 | 312

2 May 2008 / #31

When you stop with the self pity already

Have you seen Poles whining around 'oh, we are such victims, we suffered most'?
The quotes that Scorpio gave us were not about crying and whining around how poor the Poles are, but how some nations, the 'chosen' one in particular, are tweaking the history to portrait Poles as nazi criminals, not worth to even spit on.

And that's about making the history clear, not aobut self-pity.

Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823

2 May 2008 / #32

You are confusing historical analysis/debate of the Holocaust with outright denial.

Talking about a lower number of victims IS seen often as denial already.
When one starts to debate the numbers he HAS to discuss atrocities and that they maybe did not happen/did not happen in this way/etc....where do you draw the line?

What about this "6 Million" number??? It's carved in stone...debating it is seen as denial and revisionism in the mainstream...fact!

Easy_Terran 3 | 312

2 May 2008 / #33

debating it is seen as denial

I was called a holokaust denier yesterday, because I didn't agree with 6 million number.

celinski 31 | 1,258

2 May 2008 / #34

And that's about making the history clear

Great point. When the Nation can see the full story vs "Holocaust" story. Poland was attacked on three side from "Hitler" and "Stalin" on the east. This started in 1939, not 1941 when "Holocaust" starts. Polish lost their country to "Communisn". "Jewish" say their home is "Israel". If this makes me anti-semitic, oh well, what the new word for the ones fighting the "Forgotten Polish" anti-Polishmitic.

southern 74 | 7,074

2 May 2008 / #35

She was asked to enter in to a debate with him, she refused on the grounds that entering such a debate (whether the holocaust actually occured or not) simply legitimises it.

It does not legitimize it.If you can prove him wrong,his arguments lose their value.Otherwise he can claim that he is under pogrom because nobody can cope up with his arguments.

His work is debated then (correctly) dismissed in English universities. The reason for this is that it is historically inaccurate.

So historically inaccurate works do not even get a mention in english universities?

If I argued that Hitler never invaded Poland, should my historical work be given any credence?

If you argued that Poles or Russians or English provoked the Germans to invade Poland,your historical work would have been given credence.All this interpretation is open to opinions.Many holocaust deniers may deny the existence of order by Hitler for the holocaust or whether it was sth that was systematically conducted on purpose or the Jews simply died in concentration camps due to exhaustion caused by heavy work and malnutrition as it happened to hundres of thousands of Russians and Poles who worked together in the same camps.

celinski 31 | 1,258

2 May 2008 / #36

Russians and Poles who worked together in the same camps.

Say what, I hate to tell you this but the guards were Soviets. They were raping, killing, starving the Polish to death. I will say, "Stalin" did kill his own. But please the ones with the guns were the Soviet's in "Siberia". If you look into it also look up "katyn", yes it was "Stalin's" orders.

southern 74 | 7,074

2 May 2008 / #37

but the guards were Soviets.

The guards in Auschwitz were Soviets?They must have had a difficult task.

Crnogorac 3 | 111

3 May 2008 / #38

In the USA I was told by one of the main musuems that "Stalin" and "Catholic" victims did not belong in the "Holocaust". A billion dollar per year vitimization, in the USA. Victims had to be "Jewish" and crimes by "Nazi's".

Belgium to pay millions to Holocaust victims

After the "chosen people" drained Germany and Austria, it is Belgium's turn.

Updated Forbes list of biggest companies (by pure profit) in the world:

1. "Holocaust" Inc.--- Worldwide --- activities: blackmails and extortions
2. Citigroup --- USA --- activities: banking
3. General Electric --- USA --- activities: conglomerates
4. American Intl Group --- USA --- activities: insurance
5. ExxonMobil --- USA --- activities: Oil & Gas Operations
6. British Petroleum --- UK --- activities: Oil & Gas Operations
7. Bank of America --- USA --- activities: banking
8. HSBC group --- UK --- activities: banking
9. Toyota Motor --- Japan --- activities: consumer durables
10. Fannie Mae --- USA --- activities: diversified financials
11. Wal-Mart Stores --- USA --- activities: retailing

P.S. this I read in Polish newspapers and is especially interesting:

Additional reparations in amount of 35,2 millions of euros, will be given to foundations which will help Jews and ensure that the horrors of holocaust will never be forgotten.

EDIT: More "holocaust jewels".

biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

From The Times

James Hider in Jerusalem

globalfire.tv/nj/03en/holoindustry/questions.htm

"If everyone who claims to be a survivor actually is one, who did Hitler kill?"

And more:

Orli, together with other survivors, has formed an organization called YESH -- Children and Orphans Holocaust Survivors in Israel, which is preparing a lawsuit against Germany. "We want the German government to recognize our suffering," says Orli.

A lot of money is at stake. The representatives of the children of the Shoah are demanding more than the usual compensation. They want their clients to receive an orphan's pension -- "the same as the children of fallen Wehrmacht soldiers," Orli explains. His organization wants every surviving member of the children of the Shoah to be paid €7,200 for each year spent as an orphan. For the 250,000 survivors still alive today, that would come to €1.8 billion per orphaned year. The Holocaust survivors' group also wants the German government to pay for health disorders and the loss of career opportunities.

This one on the end is the best. Unsuccessful Jews have to receive lucrative reparations from Germany because Germans are to be blamed for their carrier miscarriages. Unbelievable!!!

And such examples can be found by hundreds. And the "chosen people" are whimpering that "everybody hates them". I wonder why.

joepilsudski 26 | 1,389

3 May 2008 / #39

Crnogorac

What a post!...and the truth, too, in a nutshell!

Harry

3 May 2008 / #40

Did you enjoy your time in Bosnia raping women and children in between executing the unarmed men?

IronsE11 2 | 442

3 May 2008 / #41

I'm not sure if you understood my statement!

Talking about a lower number of victims IS seen often as denial already.

I understand your point but I draw the line at people like Irving. FWIW I don't think he should be locked up, just not taken seriously.

I think the following accurately demonstrates the different ways that denial can be defined.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Easy_Terran 3 | 312

3 May 2008 / #42

Did you enjoy your time in Bosnia raping women and children in between executing the unarmed men?

Excellent point in this discussion, Harry, excellent :/

isthatu2 4 | 2,694

4 May 2008 / #43

Have you seen Poles whining around 'oh, we are such victims, we suffered most'?

Not been here that long yet then ? ;)

IronsE11:
of David Irving. He is viewed as a joke

If he is a joke,why is he in prison?

Er,he's not in prison,he's busy flogging his books at far right conventions and tank festivals in the south of england(see Panorama documentry "weekend nazis".)

The man is a joke,his old books,which he gives away as e books via his website,are chock full of admissions that the holocaust took place,full of his research that demonstrates he knows fine well that the holocaust took place pretty much as we understand it today....only these days he's all about denial and selling cheap home printed books on stalls that also sell adolf hitler coffee mugs and translated pamphlets of julies striecher speaches...

southern 74 | 7,074

4 May 2008 / #44

Actually I read one of his books about Hitler and was surprised that he viewed everything from Hitler's perspective.I admit he is not objective but it is interesting to read sb who takes completely the one side disregarding all the others.

For me the best sources of what really happened in the war are the SS memoirs and the red army soldiers descriptions.If you read them,they agree on an awful lot of things.In fact both sides tell almost the same story.

Irving's point of view is that of the propagandist nazi,not the SS soldier or the Wehrmacht soldier.I think he is persecuted because of propaganda against Israel.

Anyway an English dared to do what no German did.The English are strange after all.

IronsE11 2 | 442

4 May 2008 / #45

it is interesting to read sb who takes completely the one side disregarding all the others.

Interesting - yes, but given legitimacy as a genuine historic argument - no. The only problem with Irving's work is that there are idiots who are actually believe it. On my university course, his work was used as an example of how 'evidence' can be distorted to form an innacurate revised version of events. In his case to satisfy a a rampant anti-semitic agenda.

The English are strange after all.

I can't disagree with you there.

eric_the_nave - | 30

4 May 2008 / #46

I have not read any of David Irving's work. But from what I have seen written about it he is hardly complimentary of Poles. So I find it hard to believe thar people are pushing his agenda on a Polish forum (although I realise that those pushing it aren't normally Polish).

Besides which if the holocaust did not happen there are two major set of liars. The first set are Jews. The second biggest set are Poles lead by Jan Karski and the Polish government in exile.