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Poland: dont blame us its the Germans.


gumishu 13 | 6,067  
24 May 2009 /  #121
what you do is calling people names

if you hate those who have some grieves or even rants and call their names and attribute some intentions or feelings they do not hold - who you are then

if you moan about moaners are you any better

what positive there is in your stance - you being jugdemental?
shopgirl 6 | 928  
24 May 2009 /  #122
what you do is calling people names

What names?
I don't recall calling anyone a name.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
24 May 2009 /  #123
Well, had there been no Hitler, it is a matter of speculation as to whether the Allies would have allowed the Red Army to waltz in and then impose communism.

Roosevelt and Churchill invoked the depleted army and tiredness card, allowing Poland to fall prey to the scourge of communism.

In hindsight, we can see that communism was attacked afterwards but Poland was largely left to its own devices to shake it off.

For sure we can blame the Germans as the proximate cause but we need to understand the fury of theirs after Versailles. Yes, I understand the anger of the Poles but not fully as I've never lived it.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
25 May 2009 /  #124
For sure we can blame the Germans as the proximate cause but we need to understand the fury of theirs after Versailles. Yes, I understand the anger of the Poles but not fully as I've never lived it.

Its another matter for speculation, but if the Versailles Treaty hadn't been so brutal and unforgiving, there might not have been a Hilter either. I read somewhere that he insisted that France sign its surrender in the same rail car where Germany had signed the Versailles Treaty as a personal retribution.

I think all of us, myself included, tend to forget what an earth-shaking event WWI was. WWII may have eclipsed the Great War in many ways, but the first war reshaped Europe in so many ways, could we even list them all?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
25 May 2009 /  #125
France was very harsh. Lloyd George had personal reservations about this approach being a former close trade partner with Germany. He bowed to public opinion and was a bit sterner.

Still, it stuck in the craw of the Germans from the end of WWI to the start of WWII. They didn' like being dictated to in such an unfair and offhand way but war arouses those emotions unfortunately.

We must always pinch ourselves that we are writing in times of peace (well, out of the window I am looking anyway, oh, a Polish couple have just started to argue, LOL ;)) War is a plunderous game!
roboghostdog - | 13  
26 May 2009 /  #126
Hitler and Stalin made a pact to take over Poland, Nazis from the west and Bolsheviks from the east. Now, why would two enemies [Hitler and Stalin] invade Poland while they both could have opted to invade the western European countries instead?

Hitler had to conquer Poland, he had no choice and he needed the help from the east.
Poland was in his, way because the Poles had the 6th largest army in the world.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
26 May 2009 /  #127
but if the Versailles Treaty hadn't been so brutal and unforgiving,

The Germans would still start WW2 on account of not being able to cope with failiure, the size of the failiure didnt matter as much as the fact that it happened.

What shoud have happened was Germany being transformed into an agrarian state with much of the teritory partitioned between Poland, France and other neighbouring states.

I read somewhere that he insisted that France sign its surrender in the same rail car where Germany had signed the Versailles Treaty as a personal retribution.

Of course it could simply be because he was an abusive bastard who always given the slightest reason humiliated people?

For sure we can blame the Germans as the proximate cause but we need to understand the fury of theirs after Versailles.

Sean stop being such a fvcking apologetic, Germans CAUSED the Versaiiles to happen.

It only shows how deeply dysfunctional Germans are at a core level as both human beings and a society, first they start a conflict out of no other reason then overblown ambition, they get smacked down and concessions are forced for all the pain and suffering they caused and then Germans suddenly feel hurt over mistakes that are purely their responsibility.

Germany is to blame for WW1.
Germany is to blaim for Versailles.
Germany is to blame for WW2.
Germany is to blame for expelles post WW2.

Germany has no right to be angry or dissatisfied, it started all these conflicts on a pure whim, there was a thousand other ways to resolve the conflicts, many of these were artificially created by Germany itself, there is no "but we need to understand Germans were angry" a murderer doesnt get to be angry over his jailtime.

Germany takes 200% responsibility for all of these, there is no excuse and no reason other than Germany being deeply dysfunctional as a state, society and nation.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,897  
26 May 2009 /  #128
Germany being deeply dysfunctional as a state, society and nation.

Sour grapes? :)

What then would you call being erased from the map for 200 years? A success??? :):):)
Germany was the world leader till WWI!
And now you live again on german support in the EU...some failure!

Cut the crap Sokrates!

Of course it could simply be because he was an abusive bastard who always given the slightest reason humiliated people?

One of my favourite you tube clips...from the Wochenschau, Hitler forcing the ultimate humiliation on the arrogant bastards...but nothing what they hadn't done before to us! :)

We definitely neutered the french then...they never came back from that!
Great Britain got broke and lost their Empire for good.
Germany lost the war and got down but we took our enemies with us!

And now look at us! Some failure....sure..when Germany is a failure, what are you then? A joke?
One won battle every few centuries isn't going to cut it!:):):)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
26 May 2009 /  #129
Sour grapes? :)

Truth.

What then would you call being erased from the map for 200 years? A success??? :):):)

A result of neighbouring a nation with tendencies that often border on psycopathic, you cant deny your people are the source of two largest conflicts, the largest genocide in living history and centuries of abuse towards each other and their neighbours, you have been unable to establish a peacefull society for longer than a 100 years and most major conflicts in the region start with Germany.

While i remain impressed with a lot of things about Germany you're Europes great problem child and i'm not sure if we wouldnt be safer if you did not just dissapear post WW2.

And now you live again on german support in the EU...some failure!

If not for the war You caused, for the destruction You caused and for the losses You caused we'd have a full blown western style economy for generations, what we got from Germany is pocket money when compared with how much You have cost us.

but nothing what they hadn't done before to us! :)

Oh you did quite a lot of things no one before you did, death industry, plans to genocide entire races, and 60 years later arrogant attempts to rewrite all that into a milder form so you dont seem quite the monsters you were, i've deluded myself untill very recently that Germany changed somehow from this dysfunctional psychopathic creature it became in late 19th, but you're the same, CDUs declaration made it pretty clear you're still your little old chaunivistic twisted self.

Germany lost the war and got down but we took our enemies with us!

You were this close to getting your nation sterilized or changed into a bunch of shepherds and you're glad? The only thing that saved you from obliteration was Stalins little feud with the West.

And now look at us! Some failure....sure..when Germany is a failure, what are you then? A joke?

You mean a chauvinistic state filled with descendants of murderers who insolently try to shift blame onto the descendants of their victims and rewrite history? Or the fact that you're going to lose 1/3 of your nation within some 50 years, the fact that you're forewer bonded with Nazism and Hitler in the eyes of the world and every single achievement you made is forever overshadowed by WW2? You're a damn success BB!

And now look at us! Some failure....sure..when Germany is a failure, what are you then? A joke?
One won battle every few centuries isn't going to cut it!:):):)

We've been winning most battles for over 7 centuries, our problem is that we let the little medieval nazi aka teutons survive and turn into Prussia when we should have wiped them out post haste and let Turks take you over, Germany doesnt exist because its super, its where it is because we stupidly allowed it.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
26 May 2009 /  #130
You mean a chauvinistic state filled with descendants of murderers who insolently try to shift blame onto the descendants of their victims and rewrite history?

There is a difference between "rewriting history" and bringing out facts that were ignored before!

There can't be that many "descendants of murderers" because there wasn't hardly any men left in Germany after WWII!

And what do you mean by "chauvinistic" state??????
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,897  
26 May 2009 /  #131
The whole Nazi affair was 12 years (of 3000)...you are fooling nobody when you let your wishful thinking get the better of you.
Ask anybody in the world when comparing Poland with Germany which of us he calls a "failure"...sorry Sokrates but that is just funny! You are only one step away from doing a Crow :)

Doesn't sweat it Shopski, with Sokrates it's that he is jealeous of Germany, wanting Poland as strong and influential, and even more so if possible, suffering very much under the not especially glorious past...I don't begrudge him that, it's a healthy feeling :)

You see? That is a polish kind of "rewriting" history:

..we let the little medieval nazi aka teutons survive and turn into Prussia..

"they let"

*snicker*

Poor guys..The same with the partitions probably.."they let" them doing that! :)
Not to mention as "they let" the Wehrmacht marching over Poland in 1939! :)

You're a damn success BB!

Thanks, I like you too! :)

PS: There ARE actually polls and surveys out there, comparing countries...the last one showed GERMAN AS THE MOST POPULAR COUNTRY! :)
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #132
Part of Germany which was in eastern block like Poland is the best prove ... higher unemplyment than in Poland ... less companies opened ... bilions euro pumped by western lands ... still no optimism ... no jobs ... pasive society... depopulation ...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,897  
26 May 2009 /  #133
Part of Germany which was occupied by Soviets like Poland doesn't look so good ... higher unemplyment than in Poland ... less companies opened ... bilions euro pumped by western lands ... no optimism ... no jobs ...

Yeah...get your money out...we need now polish EU support...*holds bag open*

;)
shopgirl 6 | 928  
26 May 2009 /  #134
German unification came later than Polish reforms after Communism, but the changes in German economics were greater.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,897  
26 May 2009 /  #135
Shopski? You are not trying to argument rational with these guys, don't you???

It's just the usual b*itchfest after midnight...nothing special...:)
shopgirl 6 | 928  
26 May 2009 /  #136
Shopski? You are not trying to argument rational with these guys, don't you???

One tries! :)

It's just the usual b*itchfest after midnight...nothing special...:)

Und ob ich es weiƟ! :)
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #137
Well I haven't seen such enormous propaganda.

First of all ...

Prussians expeled many Poles from their houses before WWI. Durring WWII wanted to expele more ...

What is the saddest - that German elites start to think that germans were vicitimes ...

well ... it is very sad
shopgirl 6 | 928  
26 May 2009 /  #138
Well I haven't seen such enormous propaganda.

I have.
Bzibzioh  
26 May 2009 /  #139
Ask anybody in the world when comparing Poland with Germany which of us he calls a "failure"...

You can thank Americans and their Marshall plan for rebuilding Germany after the war. Poland was more devastated and got no help. Remember that before you get cocky again.

Oh, wait, Germany and humility ... nah ... silly me
OP Wroclaw Boy  
26 May 2009 /  #140
You can thank Americans and their Marshall plan for rebuilding Germany after the war. Poland was more devastated and got no help.

Eastern Germany didnt get too much though did it B, do you even know why?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 May 2009 /  #141
Exactly, a little reading of history is in order here.
Harry  
26 May 2009 /  #142
Eastern Germany didnt get too much though did it B, do you even know why?

You don't seriously think that facts matter to her, do you?
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
26 May 2009 /  #143
if the Versailles Treaty hadn't been so brutal and unforgiving, there might not have been a Hilter either

The economist JM Keynes referred to it as 'the ruination of Europe'.
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #144
Versailles treaties were horrible ... Poland got independence after 100 years of oppresion ... expulsions made by Germans ... and so on. Horrible
OP Wroclaw Boy  
26 May 2009 /  #145
Im feeling another thread coming on:

Should the Western Allies have just slugged it out with the Russians after the fall of Germany. After all America had the Nuke technology shortly after, we would have blown them to kingdom come.
Bzibzioh  
26 May 2009 /  #146
Eastern Germany didnt get too much though did it B, do you even know why?

East Germany got nothing. And now address my point, please.

East Germany my ass ...
shopgirl 6 | 928  
26 May 2009 /  #148
Eastern Germany didnt get too much though did it B, do you even know why?

Because the Russians were cheap?
lol

Should the Western Allies have just slugged it out with the Russians after the fall of Germany. After all America had the Nuke technology shortly after, we would have blown them to kingdom come.

Maybe the Allies should have, but everyone was worn out and empty by the end of WWII. All parties involved just wanted it to be over so rebuilding could take place.
Bzibzioh  
26 May 2009 /  #149
Ja?

Exactly my point. Thank you.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,897  
26 May 2009 /  #150
Glad to help! :)

Erm...what did I say???

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