Why has Poland been attacked so often by its neighbors?

Nope.
Germans, when it became obvious they were losing the war, began drafting everybody. It means they closed an eye to the fact that Poles who lived in Silesia or Pommerania regions considered themselves Polish. They were drafted anyway. Most of them deserted to the allies` side. The Polish Army in the West was regularly supplied by such Wehrmacht deserters, there was a special consent of American and British headquarters for that process.

At the end of the war, Germans started drafting Russian POWs or volunteers into elite SS forces.

So, once considered Untermenschen, Slavic people were used by Germans as a last resort to continue/prolong the war.


LOL, come back to Poland in 10 years`time, you will see the difference....

I can only speak for Gliwice but 2 major roads have been completed and they are great. Poland is pulling its socks up and getting its act together. Not b4 time on this front. Poland is a country that's going places

Nope.
In every identification stood if one was either polish or german citizens or Volksdeutsche, ethnically german Poles.
(Volksdeutsche Liste)
Only Germans or Volksdeutsche could and would be drafted into the Wehrmacht!

The Waffen-SS was another matter alltogether! Many of the nearly 1 Million men at the end of the war were non-germans...


I would really like to see some stats and links to that often repeated statement.


Nope,
Germans were drafted
The Waffen-SS were volunteers!

PS: I don't doubt that many Volksdeutsche felt loyalty to Poland but so felt many ethnically Poles who were now german citizens loyalty to Germany...lot's of "skis" in the Wehrmacht fighting bravely!

plk123...I never said anything about 'Kashubs'. Your attempt at reading between the lines and reading what you want to read has failed you again. Sorry to disappoint, but I don't believe I speak, how you say...."BS".

Like I said before, these lands have gone back and forth between slav and germanic peoples over the past 2,000 years, it is merely a fact. One can argue the Slavs pushed west and the Germanic peoples pushed back in an easterly direction- nothing more.

The original Prussians were neither Germanic nor Slavic, but like Lithuanians and Latvians: Baltic. The land has changed hands at various times in history, but what we are left with now are a lot of Germans living in what we call Germany, and a lot of Poles living in what we call Poland. Kashubs do seem to put themselves under a Polish umbrella. Make do with what we've all got?

nah, you just conveniently left off some facts. that's how you germans are. lol

I think Poles like you stating: "this land was always polish" even when germanic tribes settled there long before or "these towns where always polish" even when they consisted of a german population for 500, 800 years are leaving some inconvenient facts out!

Lamenting german "Drang nach Osten", ignoring polish "Drang nach Westen".
Are all Poles like this?

a

I hope all Germans are not like this...

according to your maps

(nordic tribes BC)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_(Y-DNA)



and today genetics...

My halliogroup is "I1"

we simple assimilated with Slavic people, the same as some slavic people (R1A) assimilated with Nordic people. So "slavs" haven't pushed "Nordic" tribes.

I love Poland I am not slavic, IMO more than thousend years ago we assimiletad with Slavs. btw the fact that 24% of Germans are nordic and 17% of Poles are Nordic, doesn't give Germans right to push Poles because Germans are more Nordic for about 7%.

btw you are simple skinhead.

so even when we look on ancient times ... (what is stupid) you look like idiot.

What is typical German haplogroup ? R1A R1B or I ? :)))

It's the Poles who always state: "It was always polish land", but the germanics were first there, period!

PS: Do you want to be suspended again Luki?

I always find it funny if eastern people becoming more racial interested than Hitler, Himmler and the Nazis...isn't it ironic!

but WE (me) are there. We live in Poland for more than 2000 years :) nobody pushed us :)
(haplogroup I)

Germans are onky little bit more "I" than Poles... so why you claim that it is Germans land.

We are Polish :)

I claim that I prefere to live in Poland not in Germany :)

The same as Slavic Rostock prefere to be part of Germany.


read your previous posts :)))) and stop talking crap about "Germanic" or "Slavic" land. There is Poland and Germany ! :) I prefere Poland and I don't care about genetics. :)

Are you slow???

It's the Poles who state the expellation of Germans from this territories were alright because it was always polish land and Germans had no right to live there....

It's the other way around, not that Germans deny the Poles the rights to the land and towns but the Poles deny that the Germans!

Russians have done what they have done it was their decission. I just ridiculise your claims about Germanic land.

I am Polish I am not slavic, my grandfather have been killed in concetration camp.

UK is partly Nordic and fighted agains Germans (nation) as Poles (who are partly Nordic as well)

btw read your previous posts. about pushing etc. :))))))))

you are pathetic with your claims when only 24 % of Germans are Nordic ...

And you are just a confused dummkopf...you just want a fight with me regardless if the arguments I made are valid or not!
Why don't you explain to all of us why this land is polish only in your mind???

Go play somewhere else...


What an argument: England fighted together with Prussia against France (Waterloo)...so what!
Poland was once allied with the Teutonic Order and they fighted together against the Tartars...and???


...how confused you are! :(
I stated long before you that we became a mixed breed over the millenia...I'm not southern!

Europe, such a great continent, everyone lives in peace...... ;)

That is why we should talk about. Poles, Germans, Russians, English, French, Spanish.
Not about Nordic, Middletenian, Slavic ... people.
(still I don't know to which group Germans belong)

It is you who post maps with movements of european people. The fact is that we all come form Africa, and Europe was under glacer when we were living somewhere on south..

A Tale of 298,700 Cities....Dickens would have a lot to write about today

When we go even further back we did swam together as amoebes in the ocean..:)
(polish and german amoebes of course bickering with each other!)

I will post that map whenever a Pole states that that was
ALWAYS polish land, whenever someone says Germans have no rights to this land and are just illegitimate settlers and thiefs, that Germans never belonged there and it was right that they were expelled!


It's your people who seem to be obsessed with haplogroups nowadays...

How the hell did this thread turn into some kind of old school, pseudo-science about the movements of germanic or slavic tribes? WTF? I know all topics digress into other matters, but if anything more must be said, let's try to stay on track please. Bratwurst, your obsession with german peoples is irrelevant. Start a topic about it if you like.

Gerries are wannabe-swedes
and
SWedes are wannabe-Gerries....

Erm...german peoples irrelevant to this topic?

Are you that stupid or do you only look that way....

plk123 said..."nah, you just conveniently left off some facts. that's how you germans are. lol"

Really??? One can say the same about you- and, by the way, I did not.

So silly and so typical to accuse us en masse of how 'we Germans' are. Sounds more like blatant rascist stereotypical hatrad of the Germans on your part (reading between your lines)...however, that is to be expected on this forum as it slowly descends to the levels where the knuckledraggers and those lacking opposable digits and the cranial capacity to do proper non-wikipedia sourced research dwell.

I suppose this is where all the polska skinheads proliferate ;)

Let us all just get along and stop believing everything re-posted from wikipedia as cast in stone truth- it isn't.

yes you did as kashubs do live in the pomerania region and that's the convinient truth you skipped.


that will get you in all kinds of trouble as i type double spaced. hehe

The old road paradox.


plk123, have you any hair under that hat?

because you were last core of free Sarmatia

I will gladly help you supplement your historical knowledge. It seems to be incomplete.... :)

The Deutsche Volksliste categorised Poles into one of four categories:

* Category I: Volksdeutsche-Persons of German descent who had engaged themselves in favour of the Reich before 1939.
* Category II: Deutschstämmige-Persons of German descent who had remained passive.
* Category III: Eingedeutschte-autochtonic persons considered by Nazis as partly Polonized (mainly Silesians and Kashubs); refusal to join this list could lead to deportation to a concentration camp

* Category IV: Rückgedeutschte-Persons of Polish nationality considered "racially valuable", supportive of the Reich (e.g., collaborators)

Let`s look how it was done in Silesia region:

The remaining population of the interwar Silesian Voivodeship was inscribed onto the Deutsche Volksliste (DVL, German National List). The DVL's groups I and II contained 300 thousand persons of indubitable Germanness and the groups III and IV one million potential Germans. Berlin extended full citizenship only to the members of the groups I and II. The rest were mere state-members. But as Staatsanagehörige they could not be drafted into the Wehrmacht. With the opening of the eastern front in 1941 the need for soldiers became so acute that the group III (comprising about 940 thousand persons) were granted with Reichsbürgerschaft (Boda-Krężel, 1978: 13-20).

In general 300-400.000 people were conscripted by Wehrmacht in Upper Silesia, which contained a high number of German minority, ,many against their will by either forcing them to sign Volskdeutsche lists or signing them on them without their agreement.

Names very often appeared on the Volksliste without the consent of the owner. Very often fear promoted people to sign and often, given the harsh terms of the Nazi occupation, the promise of better conditions were enough incentive for people to sign up. Franciszek Janikowski was a Pomeranian who had been conscripted to the German Army before joining the Polish 1st Armoured Division. His appearance on the Volksliste was typical:

"My father worked on the railways. He had no land and no fortune so he was afraid. When they took them away in 1942 and asked who doesn't want to be Germanised? Nobody answered. My father signed and, as he told me later, he thought: I have a son ..."


Polish deserters from Wehrmacht who joined Polish Army were estimated at 83.000.
Out of those 60.000 were from Upper Silesia.

Links to above info are here, unfortunately some are in Polish, but there is also one in German.

A site about Polish Armed Forces in the West
angelfire.com/ok2/polisharmy/chapter3.html

The hostages of war - a magazine article

"I didn`t want to go to that army" - memories of Silesians forcefully drafted into Wehrmacht
alfa.com.pl/slask/200501/s10.html

The historical forum, the thread`s title is Poles in German Army.
odkrywca-online.pl/pokaz_watek.php?id=385407

Polen in Wehrmacht, a site in German
www1.ku-eichstaett.de/ZIMOS/forum/docs/kochan.htm

An article entitled DUAL CITIZENSHIP IN OPOLE SILESIA IN THE CONTEXT OF EUROPEAN INTEGRATION

I have to confess that.

Really!

Where do we disagree?
That the Liste determinted who was German and who was not?
That those who were Germans were drafted into the Wehrmacht?
What do you don't understand about "Volksdeutsch", "Deutschstämmig", "Eingedeutscht" and "Rückgedeutscht"....

No ethnically Poles were drafted into the Wehrmacht.
But that also concerned other nationalities...not french, no danish, no
dutch no other nationality were drafted into the Wehrmacht! It was policy.

Additionally the Nazis didn't want any collaboration of the ethnic Poles whatsoever. Poland never got the possibility of self government as other occupied countries got. Poland was never invited to take part in form of building a Waffen-SS unit like many other countries (also eastern ones).

And you really think the Nazis had allowed pure Poles in the Wehrmacht??? Think again...

There were of course alot of people who had mixed heritage....that is another gray field altogether.

PS: I would be very careful to cite survivors on the polish site after the war about their true motives...how do you think would they had fared if they had admitted that they felt german and prefered the Wehrmacht.

Of course they were now all patriotic Poles and couldn't wait to stick it to the Germans...just wonder how many Germans there would be had the Nazis won!

PS: My family stems from lower Silesia and all men fighted in the Wehrmacht, I know what I'm talking of..

Interesting document, the "Wehrgesetz" of 1935....


documentarchiv.de/ns/1935/wehrgesetz.html

Well.. it does make for some "interesting" reading anyway.

plk123...I was trying to give the cliff notes version, not the novelized one; however, in this case maybe I should've just so you can get the jist of it. The pomerani tribe was a slavic tribe and I never said that the kashubs weren't. Silly me for assuming that since I only mentioned the one, and not the other because they were both slavic, that the general idea would not get across.

No you see...I never said Germans are irrelevent to this topic, but your obsession with germans is, meaning the debate you started about where they were thousands of years ago, how nordic they are, etc. I notice you like to make everything about Germany, when I was a bit more interested in the resilience of the Poles