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Pan-Slavic dreams of Polish/Russian cooperation.


Borrka 37 | 594  
8 Dec 2008 /  #1
Tragic hero of the Russian history, dethroned and murdered by conservative boyars because of his pro-Polish sympathies.
Son of Ivan the Terrible, spent his youth in Polish exile under the false name Grigori Otrepov.
Then, he showed up in Russia as a legitimate heir to the throne. Supported by the peasant uprising he defeated the bitterly hated by nobles and peasants alike, czar Boris Godunov.

Dimitr's bold attempts to reform Russia provoked new conflicts with a group of nobles and his death put an end to all pan-Slavic dreams of Polish/Russian cooperation.

Later historians of Romanoffs' court created his negative legend starting centuries of anti-Polish hysteria in Russia.


Sasha 2 | 1,083  
8 Dec 2008 /  #2


Razem na Zawsze, Boria! :) The Poles are our Brothers!
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
9 Dec 2008 /  #3
The forgotten battle on the East-Front, not very important from the strategic point of view, which anniversary for many years was celebrated in the communist Poland as "A Day of the Polish People's Army".

Purely political reasons stand behind the Stalin's decision to use bad trained Polish units for this operation.
Stalin or rather his wanna be lover Wanda Wasilewska, dramatically wanted to have "their' own Polish Army because of propaganda reasons and as a tool for creating vassal Poland after the final victory.

Unprofessional command of the "Soviet made" Polish or quasi-Polish officers lacking any combat experience (the experienced officers were killed in the Katyn forest ... quite close to Lenino), bad cooperation with the neighboring Red Army units resulted in terrible and useless casualties - almost 25% of the original file.

But it was nothing as compared with success in the political and propaganda plane - as the manifestation of the Polish participation in the German-Soviet war, and the basis for further "alliance" between the Red Army and the Polish People's Army.

We are brothers in arms too !

Crow 150 | 9,558  
9 Dec 2008 /  #4
Borrka

good thread

now when Eurabia seams inevitable perspective for Poles (not only for them), i think that it is time that Poles, Russians and i would also say Ukrainians and all other Slavs needs to be more serious and start to work togather.

i want to admit. i don`t want Eurabia for my children. What about you?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Dec 2008 /  #5
The Ukrainians are working closely with the Russians, Crow. The Poles are working ever more closely with the Ukrainians too.

Poland and Russia? Drop KaczyƄski and you have a prayer
Czarnobog - | 33  
25 Jan 2009 /  #6
The dreams of a Pan-Slavic unity are noble and worth pursuing. As a Pole I feel a spiritual connection to Russians, Croats, and all other Slavic nations. We are, after all, from the same tree.

The idea of a Russian or Polish dominated union, however, sickens me as chains are made in this way. A Pan-Slavic union must include autonomy for all her nations. Under the 19th century inspired movement it was, for many, unfortunately a dream that spelled out Russian domination of all - all Slavs would convert to Orthodox Christianity and learn Russian. I know that other Pan-Slavs attempted to create a universal Slavic language by combining all of them. Again, I am against both visions - domination and forced mixing. I think regional autonomy and mutual respect are the way to go. I propose a de-centered federalist framework and not a singular unified Slavic state.

I don't think that this should be conceived as an alternative to "Eurabia" - which is a jingoist term that attempts to inspire paranoia and hate. I think we should stand up as being distinct from the West, which threatens our cultural survival more than Arab or Muslim immigrants who have always immigrated into Slavic Europe. Like Jews, Tartars and Gypsies they are a part of us. You are forgetting that Poland-Lithuania, for example, has a rich tradition of allowing foreigners to live within her realms and to practice their religion in freedom.
JulietEcho 3 | 100  
25 Jan 2009 /  #7
We are brothers in arms too !

Tell it to the KATYN families.

The Poles are working ever more closely with the Ukrainians too.

- An average Pole wants to have as much to do with Ukraininas as with a black plague... if you read a little in many circles Kaczynski is viewed as a traitor for following a path directed by Washington. Path of forgetting historical facts just to destabilize russia in the form of ukraininan so called "friendship" and “democracy” spreading.

The dreams of a Pan-Slavic unity are noble and worth pursuing

Explain my WHY?! Why is it worth pursuing? Historically russians brought nothing noble, worth mentioning to our culture. To name a few: Communism, poverty, propaganda, mass murder and cleansings,enslavement, corruption... Live and let live, don’t try to imperiate others claiming that you know what they need. We don’t need YOU and part I already know!

That doesn’t mean we should be jumping to each others throats. Business partners and good neighbors? Yes, but nothing above that.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
25 Jan 2009 /  #8
I don't think there's such a bad vibe.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
26 Jan 2009 /  #9
Borrka: We are brothers in arms too !Tell it to the KATYN families.

My posting is sarcasm 100%.
HWPiel 1 | 64  
26 Jan 2009 /  #10
Sasha,

How old is that propaganda posted you posted here? I say it is a "propaganda poster" because I see the White Eagle without crown; therefore, it is the emblem of the Poland occupied by the Soviets. It reminds me of the propaganda posters NAZI Germany used to put out with the Axis as friends theme.

H
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
26 Jan 2009 /  #11
How old is that propaganda posted you posted here?

I think it's originally from the USSR times.This pictire is used as an emblem in the group dedicated to Russian-Polish friendship in one of Russian social network (vkontakte.ru). The group itself doesn't have to do anything with communism or the USSR.

Of course one can hardly find something displaying fraternity between our folks at present. That's why I posted the old one.
sjam 2 | 541  
26 Jan 2009 /  #12
Wanda Wasilewska, dramatically wanted to have "their' own Polish Army

Is it not an accepted fact Sikorski actually wanted all of the Polish POWs released under the so called 'Amnsesty' which formed the new Polish Army in USSR to absolutley remain in USSR to fight alongside the Red Army so it could liberate Poland alonside Red Army....and wasn't it Anders that disagreed and almost went behind Sikorski's back to get Stalin to agree to let this Polish Army of USSR to leave Russia?

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